The growing ties between #BlackLivesMatter and Palestine

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/between-blacklivesmatter-palestine

After Black teen Trayvon Martin’s 2012 death at the hands of George Zimmerman in Florida, a newly formed group called the Dream Defenders sprung into action. They marched for miles. They occupied the state capitol in Tallahassee. They pushed for legislative measures that would address racial inequality.

Today, the Dream Defenders remain focused on racism in America, and have helped lead the burgeoning #BlackLivesMatter demonstrations that have swept the nation after the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner, two unarmed Black men killed by the police in Ferguson, Missouri and New York City.

But the Dream Defenders have also broadened their focus in recent months by joining U.S. Palestinian rights groups in calling for an end to Israeli human rights abuses. On December 20th, they deepened their commitment to Palestinian rights by unanimously endorsing the boycott, divestment, and sanctions (BDS) call. The endorsement came during the Dream Defenders’ conference in Florida.

And at the start of 2015, members of Dream Defenders, along with other groups focused on racial injustice like the Black Youth Project, went on a delegation to Palestine organized by the Institute for Middle East Understanding. The trip was meant to expose Black activists to the Israeli occupation. After returning, the participants have drawn parallels between the Black and Latino experience in the U.S. and the Palestinian experience.

[oberliner]

1. "part of a long line of Black radicals who identify with Palestine..."

Says Alex Kane of Mondoweiss.

Neither Black radicals nor Palestinians could ask for a more apt advocate on their behalf.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. Well, gee ober, why are you cherry picking that sentence? Here it is in full.

But the Dream Defenders and others in the #BlackLivesMatter movement see themselves as part of a long line of Black radicals who identify with Palestine.

And if you are going to post a photo then how about this one?




On edit: BDS is growing, and those who wish to mock it will someday be holding their ass in their hands.

[oberliner]

3. Because of Alex Kane

He is a dufus.

I would also add that he is definitively anti-Obama for what that is worth.

I am curious to know what Alex will move on to after BDS is successful in achieving their goals.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

4. Anybody reading your post should see how you shoot the messenger instead

of heeding the message.

BDS is growing. That's a fact.

I wouldn't be laughing it off so much as I see some posters on DU do that.

First they ignore you...

Then they laugh at you...

Then they fight you...

And then you win.

[shira]

5. Kane & all his fellow paleocon supporting Mondocreeps are virulently anti-Obama.

Yet here we are at DU with yet another of at least 5-6 more Mondoweiss articles that will be posted here this week.

[azurnoir]

7. so very unlike the article posted here a propaganda antiObama hit piece

yammering on about an "Obama Team" interfering with Israel's elections, can't get much more pro-Obama than that can we?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=93727

[shira]

8. Reporting hebrew Haaretz is now anti-Obama, LoL. n/t

[azurnoir]

9. IMRA is now Hebrew Haaretz? well okay then if you say so

[shira]

18. IMRA quoted Hebrew Haaretz. Gee, what a crime! n/t

[azurnoir]

19. well it could be because IMRA didn't credit Haaretz in any language

here once again is a link to the thread in question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=93727

[shira]

21. LoL. Credit is given in the very 1st sentence of that link. n/t

[azurnoir]

23. Oops yr right it's mentioned in passing the rest is antiObama rightist speculation

but here is the website for OneVoice the organization mentioned as being the Obama Team

http://www.onevoicemovement.org/

[azurnoir]

10. Do you know the meaning of paleocon? I ask because your use of it here is strange

Well at least beyond being anti-colonial which I guess is now a bad thing?

Paleoconservatism (sometimes shortened to paleocon) is a conservative political philosophy found primarily in the United States stressing tradition, limited government, civil society, anti-colonialism and anti-federalism, along with religious, regional, national and Western identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoconservatism

[shira]

17. Paleocon WRT Israel. Like Buchanan or the shmucks at antiwar.com N/T

[azurnoir]

20. in which case only anti-colonial would apply

[shira]

22. And antisemitic. n/t

[azurnoir]

24. well that's what the neocons are saying or so I read

[shira]

25. Paleocons are w/o question antisemitic towards Jews/Israel. Mondocreeps....

....are allied with Paleocons and have almost identical views on Jews/Israel.

[azurnoir]

26. well that's your opinion

[shira]

28. U don't think paleocons are antisemitic WRT Israel? n/t

[azurnoir]

29. obviously you do

[shira]

31. Of course they are. Here's Phil Weiss defending Pat Buchanan...

http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/so-what-if-pat-buchanan-isnt-a-philosemite

[azurnoir]

32. a rather loose definition of defending IMO

We have come a long way baby. All one needs to realize how Orwellian the definition
of anti-Semitism has become is William Safire’s remark, “if Hitler is a 10 on
the anti-Semitism scale than Buchanan is a 5”. If one thinks about that
statement it seems inexplicable. If
a 10 on the anti-Semitism scale is attempting to kill all the Jews in Europe, a 5
would be what? Certainly the “5” anti-Semite would want to expel the Jews or put
them in ghettos or maybe just take away their citizenship. Does anyone really
believe Buchanan wants any harm to come to a single Jew? Personally I’m quite
sure if Buchanan were to witness an anti-Semitic attack on a Jew in the street
he would experience moral outrage and revulsion. Buchanan’s “crime” is that he is often
opposed to the very new “Jewish interest”. The new Jewish interest is no longer
about not having pogroms in Jewish neighborhoods, but rather it is stopping the
president from going to Bitburg. It is no longer being forced to live in the
pale of settlements, it is about stopping the sale of AWACS to Saudi Arabia
and ensuring Israel gets 10 billion in loan guarantees.

Indeed Buchanan is
guilty, on numerous occasions, in his indelicate way of pointing out that the
new Jewish interests sometimes don’t coincide with his perception of the
interests of the rest of the country.
We have come to the point where anti-Semitism no longer means wanting to
harm Jews rather it’s come to mean no more than that you’re not a philo-Semite.


- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/so-what-if-pat-buchanan-isnt-a-philosemite#sthash.xbwI66BT.dpuf

[shira]

33. Weiss says Buchanan isn't an antisemite & that's NOT defending him?

The decent thing to do would be to not only denounce Buchanan for the nasty POS that he is, but also Weiss for defending that sack of shit.

[azurnoir]

41. He's pointing how antisemitism has come to mean more than what it used to

and that there could be a rather you're either for 'us' including Israel or you're an antisemite element going on

[shira]

44. Are you actually defending Buchanan for his views on Israel & Jews? n/t

[azurnoir]

76. I pointed out how the meaning of antisemitism hs been changed over time

[shira]

77. Deflection. Is Buchanan an antisemite in your opinion? n/t

[azurnoir]

78. Buchannan could well be an antisemite among other things

but Weiss was quite correct in his observation about the definition of antisemitism

[shira]

79. He could be? Either he is or isn't. So what is it? n/t

[azurnoir]

83. sorry I am not as given to spewing adjectives as some here as I said could well be

I think that's an affirmative, of course you're free to differ if you wish

[shira]

88. There's no question Buchanan is an antisemite.

You simply cannot acknowledge that Phil Weiss and the rest of his Mondo-moron cheerleaders defend extreme rightwing conservative antisemites like Buchanan. It sets the Palestinian cause back and is a "victory" for Zionism.

Can't have that, right?

Another fine example of the Israel bashing "progressive" cause.

[azurnoir]

89. well it's been a fine example of something including the misuse of the term paleocon

[bravenak]

11. I'm pretty black and pretty radical.

But, I'm just a regular person.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. We're all regular people, but we become radical

when we see so much injustice...especially against those who have no voice.

[King_David]

94. No voice?

So you have adopted the Palestinian people's cause as your prime and only cause to give them a "voice".

How ?


How altruistic of you ...

There's many many other voiceless causes too.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

106. "There's many many other voiceless causes too."

Yes, there are, my friend of Palestinian descent.

[King_David]

107. You say that as if it's an insult ?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

108. Did I? where? Perhaps you are offended by something else?

[azurnoir]

6. and what is your point here exactly why did you feel it necessary to post

a picture of Alex Kane, what exactly is it you feel DUers need to see here?

[King_David]

12. Alex Kane is another Western armchair

Last edited Thu Jan 29, 2015, 09:50 AM - Edit history (1)

"Militant " that has embraced another people's cause with such fervor for suspicious reasons.

During the Gaza war he "advised" Hamas not to accept the Egyption brokered cease fire which would of seen the war end with few casualties at that time. (Israel accepted it by the way.)

He's a single issue armchair militant that fancies himself more Palestinian than Palestinians do and like a lot of people
( even a handful here on DU in our group)
feels like he is a kind of "spokesman " for the Palestinian people.

Greta Berlin is another.

[oberliner]

14. Alex Kane

Let's leave Alex Klein out of this!

[King_David]

15. Oops typo corrected

Thanks

[azurnoir]

30. ah because Ale Kane is "Western" like Ali Abunimah ?

[King_David]

34. Ali Abunimah is Palestinian

This is his cause, he has a horse in the race,his people...that is what motivates him....Misguided as he is...for him its not all about Jews.

Same goes for Jewish activists , they have a horse in the race too.

[azurnoir]

36. Ali Abunimah is American born in Washington DC

do you count American Blacks as Africans?

[King_David]

37. Palestinian Heritage

And as far as Palestinians are concerned that's about all that is necessary no matter where one is born.

You should read up on Palestinian RoR it's very pertinent to IP debate especially for those people making this their prime cause and struggle.

[azurnoir]

39. you seem to be very concerned about the ethnic backgrounds of people that are involved

or comment on I/P issues, is that a Democratic Party value, because it isn't as far as I know

Myself I consider Abunimah an American

[King_David]

42. Yep he's American agreed

As are the "refugees" born in Lebanon , Lebanese , Syria - Syrians , Jordan - Jordanians , etc etc etc

Agreed


It all comes down to motivation for making this struggle a persons own personal primary struggle and most important cause in life.

For Jews it's because it involves our people our family, For Muslims and Palestinians it's because it involves their people their family's.

For some white "armchair " western "militants " it's because Jews are involved in this and they are obsessed with Jews, Israelis , Zionists , Jewish Ethnicity, Jewish Culture, Israeli Culture, Zionist Culture,Jewish Power , Jewish or Israeli Startups , Jewish Criminals and basically all things Jewish - Greta Berlin is just one of many and a perfect example.

[azurnoir]

75. Abunimah is an American citizen not a refugee

BTW on your claim that supporters of Palestinian self determination are doing because of Jews a couple of things . would you say that non-Jewish supporters of Israel's policies do so because Arabs/Muslims are involved?

And your diatribe could seem to be saying that Jews are responsible for the current state of Palestinians something I would quite strenuously disagree with and find rather repugnant

[King_David]

81. Nope doesn't mean anything of the sort. nt

Last edited Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)

[azurnoir]

84. None of it? or did you mean something else?

[King_David]

87. No

[azurnoir]

90. No what Abunumah is not an American citizen? No non-Jewish supporter of Israel and it's policies

does so out of a hatred of Arabs and Islam? what?

[King_David]

95. He considers himself Palestinian

And Palestinians never lose their refugee status ever.

Non Jewish support of Israel ? The USA democratic party is a prime example and its certainly not for hatred against Arabs .
There are only 12 Million Jews in the world vs 1.2 Billion Muslims. We are a minority everywhere in the world except Israel.

[oberliner]

91. He is a Palestinian

And always identifies himself as such.

His parents were born there, so he would be considered a refugee.

[azurnoir]

92. Ali Abunimah was born in Washington DC he is a US citizen

no matter how much it seems some may need to dismiss that fact or better yet what does his passport say?

[oberliner]

93. No kidding

Most Palestinian refugees were not born there.

Their parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents were.

[azurnoir]

105. Abunimah is not a refugee nor is he eligible to be a refugee

Born in Washington, D.C., Abunimah spent his early years in the United Kingdom and Belgium before returning to the United States to attend college. His mother is originally from the village of Lifta, now part of Israel, but became a refugee in the 1948 Palestinian exodus. His father is from the village of Battir, now in the West Bank, and is a former Jordanian diplomat who served as ambassador to the United Nations.

This page was last modified on 22 January 2015, at 20:25.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Abunimah

Who are Palestine refugees?

Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”

UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.

http://www.unrwa.org/palestine-refugees

[King_David]

96. That's how it works with most refugees

Except with Palestinians and what the whole RoR theory is all about.

I agree with you 100% if someone is born in a different country they should not be considered refugees anymore.

[shira]

35. No, because Kane & Abunimah are pro-Hamas, anti-Obama. n/t

[oberliner]

13. He should include this one in his byline

Like how Ramzy Baroud always has that little photo of himself posted with his articles.

[azurnoir]

27. Ramzy Baroud puts the picture himslf, why did you feel Alex Kane's was needed here

what is it about Alex Kane we should be seeing, as posted 2 pictures now it must be something you feel very significant, so what is it?

[oberliner]

38. His youth and his whiteness

Not sure how that is not obvious.

[azurnoir]

40. well it took a number of posts to get there but thank you

so you feel that young people or is it White people or both, should not be commenting on issues that involve people of color or perhaps not taken seriously?

[oberliner]

45. You're welcome

It seemed really obvious to me. I don't understand why it didn't to you.

I think young white people speaking of the Palestinian struggle should be taken as seriously as anyone wants to take them.

Personally, I think that an older Palestinian would have more valuable insight into the struggles of the Palestinian people than a young white guy from the US, but that is just my opinion.

[bravenak]

43. Yo!

I don't get it. What's wrong with being young and white while writing this article?

[oberliner]

46. Nothing's wrong with it

He is young and white and entitled to his opinions.

[bravenak]

47. I suppose he is.

I'm young and black, and have similar opinions. I guess I must be entitled too.

[oberliner]

48. Do you feel that white people can speak effectively about the black experience?

Or is there something about not being black that might impede a fuller understanding of what that is like?

[bravenak]

49. They cannot speak FOR US.

But, they certainly have the right to speak. Sometimes we NEED our white friends to help US get OUR message across effectively to OTHER white people. In order to do that, they LISTEN to us and spread the message to others who may not listen to us directly. He is doing exactly what I would ask him to do for me.
I see the Palestinians as the negroes of the holy land, despised and stolen from, called savages and infiltrators in their own home. Olive trees ripped down, homes torn down, homes stolen, land stolen for settlements and barrier walls, shot with rubber bullets for approaching that wall on THEIR land. They keep getting the short end of the stick and are told it is their fault and they don't matter. Just like black people here, in Africa (oh, yeah, they got raped and colonized too) in Australia(Aborigines had the same thing happen, colonized, stolen from, and despised by europeans) and pretty much everywhere.

White Europeans are ones who should be speaking out against the destructive policies of other european colonists and against nations supported by European majority nations. Nobody cares what brown people say. Its up to white folks to do plenty of speaking out.

[oberliner]

51. I see the Israeli Jews as the negroes of the middle east

Demonized with impunity. Portrayed as outsiders, criminals, or worse. Held to a different standard than anyone else. Condemned for being violent whenever they try to fight back. Surrounded by people who would like nothing more then for them to just go away. Frequent victims of terror attacks based on their ethnicity. Caricatured in the media using the most blatant hateful stereotyping. Just spend a day watching media in any of the countries in the region and you will see the most hateful, antisemitic rhetoric imaginable. And hardly anyone objects to this in those countries. In fact, it's so normal as to not even raise an eyebrow.

[bravenak]

52. They are the majority in Israel.

They live much better than the Palestinians that the Israeli government oppresses.

[oberliner]

56. But they are the minority in the middle east

Most Israelis live lives that are pretty similar to those Palestinians living in the population centers of the West Bank. Their lives are virtually un-impacted by any kind of Israeli oppression. I do agree that the small minority of Palestinians who live in places like Hebron where they are forced to deal with constant harassment from Israeli settlers have very justifiable complaints that ought to be redressed as soon as possible. But this would not be true for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in, say, Ramallah.

Gaza, on the other hand, is a different story. However, much of the hardships that the Palestinians in Gaza are dealing with can be traced to the terrorist group that unfortunately took over the enclave and has refused to hold elections now for more than a decade.

If you take the region as a whole, though, Israeli Jews are definitely the group that is treated as unwelcome savages and/or criminals.

[bravenak]

57. I am talking about Israel and Palestine exclusively.

In that particual region it is Israeli's oppressing palestinians and denying them rights that they themselves inherently have. Israel controls the region through brute force and American assistance and I just can't blame the victims.

After I saw those dead kids on the beach and the complete (not complete but nearly) lack of empathy from Israeli's I knew that their society was just as sick as ours here. Then with the African migrants... That was nasty and racist.

Just like us. They treat minorities just like we do. I would not be welcome there either. If you take the settlements in WB and add that to the bombings of civilians in Gaza, the protests against africans, the separation walls, and the shootings of unarmed protestors, it looks really fucking bad.

No amount of 'look over there!' is going to stop the critisisms, it actually increases it. Claiming morality while being immoral makes people want to fact check. And it is obviously NOT Palestine oppressing Israel. It is the other way around and everyone can see that. Playing pretend just loses allies. I like Jews just fine. I cannot stand Israeli policy. Reminds me of Manifest destiny and that hurt my people. It's the reason Black support of Palestine increased during the summer war and will likely continue to increase. Besides, Palestine was quick to offer tips on treating tear gas poisoning since they get it all the time from IDF. They always express support for black americans and our problems with the unfair system. They live under an unfair system. We are connected by the oppression. Sad.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

68. ...

[azurnoir]

85. Thank you

[bravenak]

86. For sure!!!

[azurnoir]

72. not being of the oppressed race or ethnic group disqualifies one from speaking out on injustice?

Interesting take, I don't seem to remember that one being used in the early '60's late 50's civil rights protests in the US nor now during the Ferguson protests, but I'm sure there are some who might find that a valuable opinion

[oberliner]

73. If someone is going to speak to me about the black experience

I would take them more seriously if they were black than if they were white.

[King_David]

74. There's a lot of posters here that actually speak for the Palestinian people

And one that actually speaks for both the Jewish people and Palestinian people and at the same time is an expert on AntiSemitism and claims Jewish people themselves can not discern what is and what is not antisemitism.

It's pretty complicated .

[azurnoir]

80. so observations/protest of obvious racism can't be taken seriously if they come from Whites?

because they speaking about the Black experience? Have I got that right? Interesting take I'll give you that

[King_David]

50. "Young" is a pretty subjective description nt

[bravenak]

53. So what? So is intelligence.

[King_David]

54. Sure is

Best avoid agism...

[bravenak]

55. I hope you do.

I think you may be calling me old.
I like that. Respect yr elders, King! Respect us!! Lol!
I have like, 3 or 4 years on ya! Best avoid that ageism there buddy!
I find you remarkable. Seriously.
You do try your hardest to insult just about everybody and then seem to wonder why you are not well liked and pretend to be oppressed.

[King_David]

58. I'm not well liked?

Never knew this.

[bravenak]

59. Amazing.

[King_David]

60. Cmon really?

I can think of 3 people in the group who don't like me.... Well 4 if you don't .... I like you though.

[bravenak]

61. You accused me of homophobia once.

Then you tk;dr'd my reply. It was hurtful. No. I don't like people who accuse me of homophobia.

[King_David]

62. Okay we'll make that 4 people

I should go to a Dale Carnegie course.

[bravenak]

63. Or read," How to win friends and influence people."

Or, just not accuse people of homophobia or antisemitism for disliking Israeli policy. I usually like everyone. I though you were okay until then.

[King_David]

64. I don't remember but there must of been a good reason I'm sure

But I don't think I did and don't think you are as there's only 2 people who fit the bill.

[bravenak]

65. Thank you for the apology.

We can be friends again.

[King_David]

66. .

[bravenak]

67. You're still funny.

At least you have that. Nobody can say you ain't amusing as hell.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

69. That's the way some work.

They are either playing bully or playing victim.

[bravenak]

70. It is very irritating.

And they know it. BDS is causing stress!

[oberliner]

97. Are you a part of the BDS movement?

If so, what have you done thus far in support?

[bravenak]

98. No, I was making an observation that BDS is causing stress.

I'm already not much of a consumer. I focus my attention on civil rights here at home. We have not quite accheived equality here. We are still much despised for the crime of having dark skin and having worked for free for 400 years. Still trying to convince America that we are human.
Had I the money, I definately would donate if able. America won't be a free nation until everyone is treated equally. We lie and say we are, but we never have been. Much like our friends Israel.

[oberliner]

99. OK - was just curious

What do you do with respect to civil rights in the US?

[bravenak]

100. Try to get mine.

Full rights. Right now, I'm dealing with my daughter nd her autism. It takes all of my time.

Beyond that I submit poetry, articles and talk with people dealing with our racist prison system and point them to possible employment opportunities. (It is harder to find a job when you are black, even moreso when a felon, I try to help people study for GED tests and write their resumes, point them to services) I see how the unfair system keeps a particular color of people in a slave like state.

Do you do anything for the civil rights of poor, despised minorities in the US? If so, what?

[oberliner]

101. Thanks for sharing that

I can't imagine what it must be like to deal with a child with autism.

I mostly try to talk to people and to support Democratic candidate who I feel will work towards combatting poverty and inequality.

[bravenak]

102. That makes sense.

If I can get my daughter to chill out, I'll start doorknocking again. I miss it. Wish we had more democratic candidates here in my area, but Alaska, ya know? Hippies on one side, the NRA and Palin on the other. This election was evil, imo. Legal weed, minimum wages tied to inflation, but a Republican Senator and a Weird Independent Governor. I just shake my head. Hopefully we learn our lesson this time.

[oberliner]

103. Alaska, wow

It does seem like a place filled with contradictions - at least politically.

I'd love to visit the state some day.

[bravenak]

104. I always tell people to come.

You won't regret it. The summers make up for the winters. And I've seen bears downtown from my old office. And moose everywhere. Nice place. The oil industry messes with our politics. Before that we were more liberal. We're still here, just get drowned out by oil people.

[7962]

71. I pointed out long ago how AnswerCoalition would co-opt the movement

Once again, I'm right. We started seeing it on signs just a little bit ago "from ferguson to Gaza"
Nice way to take the breath out of a good movement. idiots.

[Scootaloo]

82. Hi there, 7962. How are your suspenders holding up?

Are you still trying to pimp Steven Emerson's "Muslim no-go zones" bullshit on DU?