Senior Israeli official: ” A Palestinian state 'won’t even happen in our generation,'"

[geek tragedy]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/officials-white-house-was-part-of-bid-to-oust-netanyahu/

Criticism of Netanyahu in Washington has also focused on his short-lived repudiation of support for a two-state solution with the Palestinians. In an evident effort to appeal to hard-line voters, the prime minister said on March 16 that there would be no Palestinian state during his next term in office; he subsequently attempted to walk back the comments. On Monday, White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough told lobbying group J Street that Israel’s “50-year occupation must end,” doubling down on the Obama administration’s criticism of the prime minister.

The Jerusalem official actually took Netanyahu’s initial disavowal of Palestinian statehood further, claiming that a two state-solution would be out of reach “in our generation,” due to Palestinian rejection of Israeli proposals and US-led agreements.

“[Obama] continuously warns of a deteriorating state of chaos in the [Palestinian] territories, when he knows that the only place that truly manages to maintain stability in the Middle East right now is [Israel],” the official said.

“Netanyahu said there will no agreement [with the Palestinians] during his term in office.” A Palestinian state “won’t even happen in our generation,” the official added.” Everyone knows it.”

Of course, Israel massively expanded the settlement population beyond the Wall during this time.

Netanyahu et al greatly overestimated how much American liberals and Democrats would be willing to support apartheid in Israel.

[Mosby]

1. everyone knows there will never be a Palestinian state

Until the Palestinians find leaders with vision who are able to reverse decades of Palestinian demonization and incitement against Israel and start seeing the conflict as it is in the real world, not the fantasy world that they have created.

The Palestinians have been moving to the far right for literally decades, I don't think there is a way back unfortunately, western liberals and academics pushing BDS and revisionist history are just feeding into the mass hysteria which just make things worse.

At some point people around the world are going to wonder why they are supporting tens of millions of "refugees" and once that happens the game is over.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. Keep stumbling along: pushing the blame off on

on others than where it really belongs.

I feel embarrassed for you.

[geek tragedy]

5. Yeah, the Palestinians made Israel build all of those illegal settlements as part of their

scheme to make a Palestinian state physically impossible.

[guillaumeb]

6. are you writing this post from an alternate universe?

Where the Palestinians bombed the King David hotel?
Where the Palestinians slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin?
Where the Palestinians aided and abetted the slaughter of innocent refugees at the Sabra and Shatila camps?
Where the Palestinians stole 78% of Israel and refuse to return the land?
Where the Palestinians have imprisoned the Israelis in Gaza?

In this particular universe, it was the Israelis who actually committed all these crimes against International Law.

So hello from Earth to whatever planet you live on.

[oberliner]

28. How about this universe

Where the Palestinians bomb the Park hotel in Netanya killing elderly Jews celebrating Passover?
Where the Palestinians slaughter teenagers standing outside the Dolphinarium?
Where the Palestinians orchestrate a string of suicide bombings at bus stops and shopping centers killing dozens of civilians?
Where the Palestinians kill dozens of tourists across Egypt at multiple destinations in Sinai?
Where the Palestinians fire rockets indiscriminately from Gaza at a rate of 50 per day into nearby Israeli towns and cities?

In this particular universe, it was the Palestinians who actually committed all these crimes against International Law.

So hello from Earth to whatever planet you live on.

[guillaumeb]

30. place all the evnts that we both have described in a time line

and perhaps it will be evident that some of the Palestinian acts are responses to Israeli provocation. I do not excuse the violence committed by either side, but the scale of killing weighs heavily against the Israelis. As does the initial cause of the tension, which was the forced dispossession and exile of Palestinians from their homeland by the Israelis.

[aranthus]

7. Here's the problem.

What Israel demands from the Palestinians isn't going to happen while they are under occupation, if it ever will. So waiting until the Palestinians accept a Jewish state to withdraw means maintaining the occupation forever. That isn't a viable option.

[Mosby]

8. The ongoing occupation is not good but the other option is worse

The other option being pulling the IDF out of the WB and evacuating most of the settlements deep inside including probably Hebron but not Ariel. They can't evacuate the major settlement blocks for obvious reasons so Palestinians and their supporters will still be able to claim that the WB is occupied.

Without the IDF in area C, terrorists will be able to do whatever they want including shooting rockets at major population centers in Israel and also the airport. This will result in a massive response from the IDF with lots of casualties. Israel will be blamed regardless of the attacks, just like what happened when they defended themselves against Hamas and Hezbollah aggression.

There is no good options for Israel and that's just how the Palestinian leadership and their supporters want it.

[geek tragedy]

10. How about this: "STOP EXPANDING THE SETTLEMENTS"

Go ahead and tell us why that option has never been explored.

[Mosby]

16. if I was the PM of Israel

These are concrete steps I would take immediately.

1. Create financial incentives for settlers living well beyond the green line to relocate to Israel or the major settlement blocks near the green line.

2. Make a proposal concerning borders between Israel and Palestine and make it public.

3. Temporarily lift the Gaza fishing limits in the Med.

4. Continue to remove off the book settlements and put a growth cap on the major settlements.

5. Put a per year growth cap on real estate to alleviate the housing bubble.

6. Push for Palestinian elections.

7. Create a multi-disciplinary team to evaluate the Palestinian juvenile arrest and detention system.

8. Cut military spending and divert to social programs and settler relocation.

[guillaumeb]

17. all settlements are illegal

until the Israelis return behind the Green Line there can be no real peace. Simple solution

[Mosby]

24. and that's never going to happen

Where are 350,000 people going to live exactly?

I take it you don't support any land swaps?

eta - the green line is not a border, the two sides are supposed to work that out per international law.

[guillaumeb]

25. There are 1.8 million Palestinians in Gaza

They live, if one can call it that, in the most densely populated area in the Middle East. The same "where are they to live" argument could be made by the Chinese regarding Tibet. Oh yes, they have made that argument. So is your view that a country can seize and settle on a neighboring country's land to alleviate claimed overcrowding?

Second, my personal view on land swaps is irrelevant. The Israelis have talked about land swaps but given the geographic and geostrategic placement of the illegal settlements it is fair to say that the settlements are designed to prevent any viable Palestinian state from ever being formed.

As to the Green Line and borders, International Law is quite clear that land seized in a conflict cannot be settled or claimed by the state seizing the land.

[Mosby]

27. International law is quite clear, the borders need to be worked out via negotiations

until then the land is disputed not occupied. The UN security council affirmed that again and again.

Israel did not occupy another country so Geneva 4 is irrelevant.

Unlike Turkey occupying Cyprus which violates geneva 4.

[Jefferson23]

29. That is not reflective of international law as you are stating it..not by a long shot. n/t

[guillaumeb]

31. you are correct

I stand by my "alternate universe/alternate history" theory.

[Mosby]

33. sure it is UNSCR 242, 338 and 1515.

[Jefferson23]

34. Disputed territory, Mosby? No..that is not accurate. It is well known and accepted even by

the US what is considered occupied territory.

[aranthus]

45. The WB is both disputed and occupied.

By their plain meanings, disputed and occupied refer to different concepts. Disputed or not disputed is about who claims the land; whether there is a conflict over territory. Occupied refers to how the territory is administered. Whether it is sovereign territory under civil administration or else under military control. The border needs to be determined by negotiation so sovereignty over the area is disputed. But it's currently under Israeli military control (at least parts of it), so it's also occupied.

[Jefferson23]

46. See the advisory ruling 2004. ICJ. No US president has taken the position that EJ is not occupied

territory.

[aranthus]

47. That's the offical position of my government.

However, the US government, like every other government, hardly ever takes a position based on a coherent intellectual and moral principle. This position, though of long standing, is not one of those rare times. If they were taking the position based on principle (such as territory taken in war), then the US would have to say that all of the land within the Green Line conquered by Israel in the 47-49 war was occupied. Obviously the US doesn't say that. The position on Jerusalem is for a variety of political reasons, but it isn't because Jerusalem is really "occupied." Jerusalem is disputed, but not occupied.

[Jefferson23]

48. The end to the occupation is political and it is Israel who holds those cards yet it is the

Palestinians, hands down, who hold the greater legal status as defined by law.

Occupied territory the majority of the world recognizes and accepts.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. Israel can probably send some back to Brooklyn

and not offload the newly arrived French Jews to add on the the Palestinian nightmare.

It's Israel's fucking problem to figure out.

Did they ever ask the question "Where are 720,000 Palestinians going to go after the Nakba!!?"

[geek tragedy]

19. Unfortunately, Israeli voters rejected everything but (5) and (6) on that list.

That should tell you where things are going, and that the values you hold and which inform the items on your list are not shared widely in Israeli society.

Even the great moderate hope Kulanu has the exact same position--in public--as Netanyahu--that there is no point in negotiating with the Palestinians.

The goal of the settlements was always to convince the Palestinians to see negotiations as pointless, and to sabotage efforts for a state. That way, Israel could point the finger and say "see, we can't negotiate with them."

If Israel's government honestly, truly, had an ounce of interest in resolving the conflict rather than bottling it up, they'd stop settlement expansion.

But, the end-game was always to prevent a Palestinian state. Well, they've done that.

And so Netanyahu will accomplish what Saddam, Assad, Nasser, Khomeini, and Arafat all failed to do--wipe Israel as a Jewish state off the map. Won't be today, or tomorrow, or even the next ten years.

But that is what is inevitable. Not via invading armies or suicide bombers, but via a binational, majority-Arab state created through settlement expansion.

[azurnoir]

2. IMO Bibi thinks he can simply dig in his heels and stall until a more 'friendly' POTUS is elected

and viola' problem solved, would Hilary take a stern a stand as Obama? Bibi has a bit less than 2 years to wait, which means if the US is going to have any influence the time is now or soon

[geek tragedy]

4. The issue isn't the US pressuring Israel, it's the US not going to bat for Israel

Will Hillary really have much appetite to carry water for Israel when dealing with Europe? No.

[Jefferson23]

9. Personally, I appreciate the candor. There should be no illusions for the Palestinians.

Get your people together Abbas, or they may abandon you and go for it themselves
without you.

[geek tragedy]

11. At this point, I think the Palestinian game has to be the binational state solution.

PA should dissolve itself, ditto whatever the 'governing' structure in Gaza is called.

Remove the Potemkin village as a prop for Israel's denial of apartheid.

[Jefferson23]

12. I don't know..to me there is an opening here, one not seen before on this issue.

I hope they plan well, take full advantage of the politics and go for it, they have
nothing to lose if they don't. There are very good qualified people who can help
them and make it difficult for the EU and US to ignore.

HRW and AI went to print publicly long ago..take them to the ICC. Demonstrate
in the streets civilly..be heard.

I am reading that Dermer knew full well this would create a rift not seen before
in US politics..if he felt it was worth it, I say bring it. It was a really dumb move
but may help the Palestinians and set Democrats apart from AIPAC once and
for all. American Jews are going to vote for Ted Cruz or Jeb Bush due to Israel? Really?
They have children and they are as concerned as anyone for their future and
have always been liberal minded on all political issues...the disconnect for some
has been Israel. I think Bibi just fucked that up pretty good.

[geek tragedy]

15. Dermer is playing the hand he has.

The Israeli right--and for now the Israeli public--have consciously or unconsciously decided that apartheid is the least bad option. They keep their security, and they keep the land.

They also recognize that a divorce between Israel and American liberals was bound to happen.

Where Dermer and Netanyahu screwed up was in trying to divide and conquer. They thought Israel's supporters in the Democratic party would support Netanyahu over Obama. Never occurred to them that it might work out the other way. That the "liberal on everything but Israel" crowd would eventually apply their principles to the I/P situation.

So, the settlements expand, the theocratic apartheid state bill gets passed, the Putin-inspired NGO bill gets passed, and Israel becomes one of the few states to vote out its own democracy.

And everyone in Israel prays for a Republican president in 2016 to shelter them from the consequences of their own actions.

I think the game is no longer playing for a Palestinian state--Israel is neither capable nor willing to take that idea seriously.

The real question is how fast Israel loses what few friends and defenders it has amongst the world's democracies, and starts paying the price in a way the Palestinians cannot make them pay it. As we've seen, they're going to start paying sooner than they thought, with John Boehner not able to prevent the changing of history's tide.

Thus the hasbarists are now desperately trying to pin the blame on the Palestinians, while pretending that the settlements are a nothing issue. Because Israel will be getting the blame, with the attendant consequences.

[guillaumeb]

18. if they keep the land will they ever have security?

They seem to be locked into the settlements as a solution to what they frame as their security needs and as a source of cheap land to handle population expansion. Especially if more European Jews emigrate.

There can be no good military solution for Israel except for peace with the Palestinians. That has to include a viable Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders.

[geek tragedy]

20. The Israelis believe that superior strength and dominion over the Palesitinians

are what creates peace.

Why negotiate with Palestinians when you can control them?

[guillaumeb]

23. Understood. But

how has superior military strength worked for the US in its many attempts to resolve conflicts in:
Vietnam,
Iraq,
Afghanistan,
Indonesia,
Nicaragua,
Iran,
etc.

The old saying that when one only has a hammer all problems look like a nail. The only way Israel can win militarily is extermination. And it cannot come to that.

[Jefferson23]

21. A viable Palestinian state is a long shot, absolutely agree A bantustan is what may happen, at best.

There will be other legal issues for any Republican president if your scenario should come to be.
It can get pretty tangled up legally with selling arms in these scenarios and will not
gain you much on the international front when you side with such blatant apartheid,
even for a super power.

[geek tragedy]

22. Oh, the Republicans don't really give a shit about Israel.

They care about war with Iran. When Israel stops giving them a pretext to launch wars in the Middle East, buh bye.

Note that Jeb Bush's main foreign policy advisor bashed Netanyahu at a J-Street convention this week.

Europe is not going to be as patient as the US has been. John Boehner can invite Bibi over for tea every Monday, won't change what Brussels does.

[hack89]

13. Hamas would certainly be willing to step in

at least there would only be one governing Palestinian faction instead of two.

[geek tragedy]

14. there's not really any governing Palestinian faction

it's a bit of a farce to say the Palestinians are self-governing when they can't even drive across their own land.

[hack89]

26. Who is to tell Hamas they are not the sovereign Palestinian power in Gaza?

You? Israel? Why not let them decide.

[geek tragedy]

32. Hamas are essentially warlords who have filled in a vacuum.

If Israel wants to negotiate with a state, it needs to allow a state to exist.

[Mosby]

35. Filled a vacuum? that's rich

The battle

On 10 June 2007, the Fatah–Hamas conflict culminated in clashes, between the Fatah-allied forces on one side and the Hamas-allied forces on the other side. Major Fatah forces were the National Security Forces, notably the "Presidential Guard". Main force of Hamas was the "Executive Force".

Hamas militants seized several Fatah members and threw one of them, Mohammed Sweirki, an officer in the elite Palestinian Presidential Guard, off the top of the tallest building in Gaza, a 15-story apartment building. In retaliation, Fatah militants attacked and killed the imam of the city's Great Mosque, Mohammed al-Rifati. They also opened fire on the home of Prime Minister Ismail Haniya. Just before midnight, a Hamas militant was thrown off a 12-story building.[21]

On 11 June, the residences of both Mahmoud Abbas, Fatah's leader and the Palestinian Authority president, and of then-Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, of Hamas, were targeted with gun and shell fire.[22]

On 12 June, Hamas began attacking posts held by their Fatah faction rivals. Hundreds of Hamas fighters had moved on the positions after giving their occupants two hours to leave. A major Fatah base in the northern town of Jabaliya fell to Hamas fighters, witnesses told AFP news agency. Heavy fighting also raged around the main Fatah headquarters in Gaza City, with Hamas militants attacking with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons.[23]

On 13 June, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza. Gunmen fought for control of high-rise buildings serving as sniper positions and Hamas said it had bulldozed a Fatah outpost controlling Gaza's main north-south road. Also on that day, an explosion wrecked the Khan Younis headquarters of the Fatah-linked Preventive Security Service, killing five people.[2]

On 14 June, Hamas gunmen completed the takeover of the central building of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. The Hamas members took over vehicles and weapons in the compound, which was considered the Palestinian Authority's main symbol in the Strip. The Preventive Security Service cooperated with Israel in the past, and has been armed by the United States.[24] It has been identified with Fatah powerhouse Mohammed Dahlan, who has become a figure hated by the Islamists in Gaza.[24] The gunmen who entered the compound held a prayer there and waved a flag on the building's rooftop. At least 10 people were killed. Hamas TV broadcast a display of weapons inside the building, as well as jeeps, mortar shells and bulletproof vests seized in the compound, which according to Hamas, were smuggled to Fatah by Israel and the Americans in the past few months through the border with Egypt.[25]

Hamas members held a prayer in the compound, which they referred to as the "heresy compound." Hamas also changed the name of the neighborhood where the building is located from "Tel al-Hawa" to "Tel al-Islam."[25]

On the afternoon of 14 June, the Associated Press reported an explosion that rocked Gaza City. According to Fatah officials, security forces withdrew from their post and blew it up in order to not let Hamas take it over. The security forces afterwards repositioned to another location. Later on 14 June, Hamas also took control of the southern Gaza Strip city Rafah which lies near an already closed border crossing with Egypt, which is monitored by Israeli, Palestinian and European Union security forces. The EU staff had, at that time, already been relocated to the Israeli city of Ashkelon for safety reasons.[26] On 14 June Abbas dissolved the Palestinian-Hamas unity government, on June 15, Hamas completed the control over Gaza.[27]
Military coup

As a result of the battle, Hamas got complete control of Gaza. The pro-Fatah view is, that it was a plain military coup by Hamas. The pro-Hamas view is, that the US drew up a plan to arm Fatah cadres with the aim of forcefully removing Hamas from power in Gaza. According to the pro-Hamas view, Fatah fighters, led by commander Mohammed Dahlan with logistical support from the US Central Intelligence Agency, were planning to carry out a bloody coup against Hamas.[28] Then, Hamas pre-emptively took control over Gaza.

In an April 2008 article in Vanity Fair magazine, the journalist David Rose published confidential documents, apparently originating from the US State Department, which would prove that the United States collaborated with the Palestinian Authority and Israel to attempt the violent overthrow of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and that Hamas pre-empted the coup. The documents suggest that a government with Hamas should meet the demands of the Middle East Quartet, otherwise President Mahmoud Abbas should declare a state of emergency, which effectively would dissolve the current unity government, or the government should collapse by other means.[29][30] Rose quotes former Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief Middle East adviser David Wurmser, accusing the Bush administration of “engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory.” He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. “It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen”[30]

According to Alastair Crooke, the then British Prime Minister Tony Blair decided in 2003 to tie UK and EU security policy in the West Bank and Gaza to a US-led counter-insurgency against Hamas. This lead to an internal policy contradiction that pre-empted the EU from mounting any effective foreign policy on the "peace process" alternative to that of the US. At a political level, the EU "talked the talk" of reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas, Palestinian state-building and democracy. At the practical level, the EU "walked the walk" of disruption, detention, seizing finances, and destroying the capabilities of one [Hamas] of the two factions and prevented the parliament from exercising any function.[31]

According to Crooke, the Quartet conditions for engagement with Hamas, which the EU had endorsed after the 2006 elections, were conditions raised precisely in order to prevent Hamas from meeting them, rather than as guidelines intended to open the path for diplomatic solutions. Then, British and American intelligence services were preparing a "soft" coup to remove Hamas from power in Gaza.[31]
Violations of international law
“ These attacks by both Hamas and Fatah constitute brutal assaults on the most fundamental humanitarian principles. The murder of civilians not engaged in hostilities and the willful killing of captives are war crimes, pure and simple. ”

—Sarah Leah Whitson,
Middle East director for Human Rights Watch.[32]

Human Rights Watch accused both sides of violating international humanitarian law, in some instances amounting to war crimes.[33] The accusations include targeting and killing civilians, public executions of political opponents and captives, throwing prisoners off high-rise apartment buildings, fighting in hospitals, and shooting from a jeep marked with "TV" insignia.[32] The International Committee of the Red Cross denounced attacks in and around two hospitals in the northern part of the Gaza strip.[34]

During the fighting several incidents of looting took place: a crowd took furniture, wall tiles and personal belongings from the villa of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat;[35] the home of former Fatah commander Mohammed Dahlan was also looted: "An AFP correspondent witnessed dozens of Palestinians taking everything they could carry from Dahlan's villa – furniture, pot plants and even the kitchen sink, complete with plumbing fixtures such as taps,";[36] and at the Muntada, Abbas's seafront presidential compound, witnesses reported seeing Hamas fighters remove computers, documents and guns.[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_%282007%29

[geek tragedy]

43. Yes, in the absence of a state with the means to suppress them, warlords

have free reign to do this kind of stuff.

[LeftishBrit]

36. Yes, it will...

There are two groups that constantly sabotage efforts toward establishing a Palestinian state. One is the Israeli Right, and the other is Hamas (the Palestinian Right).

But they can't go on biting off their noses to spite their faces forever.

[geek tragedy]

37. No it won't, and oh yes they can.

The Israeli right is dominant in Israeli elections. And is only getting stronger due to demographic shifts.

Even the supposedly moderate Yaalon has ruled out negotiations with the Palestinians.

And there's literally nothing to restrain Hamas.

Iacta alea est.

[LeftishBrit]

38. Last thing I'd call Yaalon is 'moderate'!

For the rest: I hope you're wrong, but time will tell.

[geek tragedy]

40. Lots of desperate folks on the left were claiming that Kahlon (not Ya'alon, my bad)

would not join Netanyahu's government because he was too moderate and didn't want a rightwing government. Because he has some populist economic leanings (as did Menachem Begin), he must not be on board with the Netanyahu-Bennett-Lieberman axis of evil.

They have short memories.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/what-the-new-darling-of-israel-s-center-left-really-thinks-about-the-west-bank.premium-1.473505

Two months ago, Kahlon arrived for a visit in the Samaria Regional Council, as the guest of Mayor Gershon Mesika, who recently argued that recent "price tag" attacks – usually acts of vandalism by Jewish settlers against Palestinians and other targets, mainly in the West Bank - are a Palestinian provocation. Kahlon and Mesika visited the Itamar settlement, where, according to a report by Israel national news, Kahlon expressed his support for the adoption of the Levy reporton legalizing illegal West Bank settlements.

"This report is updated and important….we must adopt this innovative report….adopting its conclusions will strengthen the settlements," Kahlon said.

For those who might have forgotten, the Levy report rejected the claim that Israel's presence in the territories is that of an occupying force, finding that West Bank outposts are not illegal under international law. The report recommended the legalization of many illegal outposts.

Last March, Kahlon appeared at a political conference in Caesarea at the side of extreme right-wing Likud member Moshe Feiglin, who spoke about the evacuation of the illegal West Bank outpost of Migron, and his intention to stop the evacuation with a new law that would bypass the High Court ruling on Migron. In a video uploaded to YouTube, Kahlon is seen expressing his support for such a law, and said that he would not help Likud members in the primaries who did not support the initiative. "The law is above the High Court," Kahlon said, adding, "The High Court can rule however it wants."

In April 2011, a few months before the Palestinian statehood bid at the UN, Kahlon met with young Likud members and expressed his support for annexing the West Bank, and applying Israeli law on the West Bank and its 2.5 million Palestinian residents. According to recordings from the meeting that were broadcast on Radio Galey Israel, which serves the national-religious community, Kahlon said that if the Palestinian were granted statehood status at the UN, "We must annex all the territories that same day." He added that "You declared a state? No problem, we will also make a declaration. As children say – you started it."

In that same meeting, Kahlon said he supported the expansion of settlement construction in the West Bank, even outside of the settlement blocs. "There is construction outside of the blocs, and it is being built at an awe-inspiring speed. Should I tell you this is stopping? The answer is no," Kahlon said.

Given that he, Bennett, and Netanyahu control a very durable plurality of 54 seats in the Knesset, the Israeli center-left is irrelevant from a policy-making point of view and will be for quite some time.

[oberliner]

41. In what universe is Ya'alon "supposedly moderate" ?

Where do you get your information about Israeli politics from?

[geek tragedy]

42. I meant Kahlon, who is actually just as extreme as Netanyahu.

And Ya'alon, for that matter.

[Israeli]

39. No, it wont ...

" But they can't go on biting off their noses to spite their faces forever. "

I would not bet on that if I were you LeftishBrit.