Are psychology and psychiatry real sciences?

[Backseat Driver]

or only predictive pseudo-sciences? Yeah, yeah...testing, testing, testing and scientific methodologies on the "whole" body and minds of the human species versus goal motivation reward of those we call "expert" or perhaps many that give experientially "expert testimony?" as indesputable fact?

Are those we call sociopaths, psychopaths, and the criminally insane just "naturals," experts in determining how others' minds choose their "free will"? What roles do trauma and abuse play versus metabolic/physiologic chemical and physic-al structure(s) of genetics?

Is the phrase "who could imagine?" not unlike "If you can imagine it, just do it" not just write it down, receive a stipend, a grant, or a contract for remuneration/emolument?

[GreenWave]

1. It was sometimes described as a painful elaboration of the obvious.

Does an attention disorder suddenly evaporate into nothing when the unfortunate is cornered by a tiger?

[hlthe2b]

2. Some of it is based in neuroscience, which poses the basis for medicalintervention therapy.

There are areas that are less bounded in validated science, I suppose, though, on a population basis, there are attempts to apply the scientific method to studies, classification of mental disease, and evidence-based therapy. Perhaps not always as successfully-- given some of the limitations-- as in other fields of medicine, arguably.

[mopinko]

3. i think it's squishy.

i think shrinks and neurologists r finally starting to talk to each other, but that’s new.
to me, the idea that there is a mind that is separate from the brain which is separate from the body is just stupid on it’s face.
i find their ‘tests’ crude and biased, having been subjected to 1. checklists where if u have family members w mi, and 1 or 2 symptoms, even sleep troubles, and u get a label. i think the reason finding the right meds can be so hard is cuz their testing is so crude.

but case in point- tbi’s and ptsd. the standard testing CANNOT tell the diff. i, personally, believe that this results in a lot of bad calls. the v.a. has found the diff on pet scans. i dont know if that testing is getting used elsewhere. the therapy for ptsd is some tough stuff. not appropriate for someone w/o the condition.
have 1st hand experience here w my youngest finally diagnosed w epilepsy from a long ago head injury. among the kinds of seizures she had were hallucinations that were chalked up to delusions.
having your brain short out on the regular tends to make you anxious. another box to check.

in my own case, i have autoimmune diseases that cause great fatigue. this has repeatedly been called a symptom of depression, when it is the other way around.
this led me into talk therapy that, imho, led me to bad directions. led me to think it was my life that was f’d, and to ‘fix it’. did things that only made it worse. went into it at 1 point to figure out how to live w the fatigue, the docs, the pills, the pain. 2yrs. wasted.

and dont get me started on the lack of solid evidence for most therapy modes.
and how much i hate freud.

[Captain Zero]

8. Yes, I worked under a therapist who said:

This stuff is kind of like a Bowl of Jello sometimes.

[Chainfire]

4. As real a science as physics.

Both are reaching out to the unknown and making decisions based on insufficient information.

[erronis]

5. Good way of putting it. But "making decisions based on insufficient information" is not the

same as formulating theories on how something works and then being able to test it, repeatedly.

That, to me, is the greatest difficulty in treating anecdotal evidence as hard data. Each individual is a separate observation and has a myriad of variables, all of which will change over time. And then we need to get most of the data by watching and questioning the subject which is not reproducible or stringent.

In the hard sciences these theories can be retested and the subjects are usually pretty hard objects that react in some known way over time and environment.

[erronis]

6. This is another area where AI is stepping in and may be able to help (more than hinder)

No psychologist/psychiatrist or other mental health specialist has access to the billions of case records that are available - and if they did, they couldn't process this immense load of "soft" data.

Just like is being done in other fields including medical records/imaging, these MH case records can offer a wealth of insights that haven't been digested before.

[multigraincracker]

7. Radical Behaviorism is based on hard science.

Use of statistical measurements that can be reproduced by others and measured again to bring results, not explaining it with theories.