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Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:54 PM Aug 2013

Some people REALLY can't handle the truth.

Don't the homophobes here know that the more they alert, and more they vote to hide, the more they prove our points?

There is a very vicious pocket of anti-gay members here, and all the denial in the world will not make it go away.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Some people REALLY can't handle the truth. (Original Post) Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 OP
Very true and it really MuseRider Aug 2013 #1
A few questions theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #2
Over the top post against LGBT are not being hidden. William769 Aug 2013 #4
Yeah, but when we complain... theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #5
same ol, same old mitchtv Aug 2013 #22
Ok... Fearless Aug 2013 #6
We're really not in control of our own forum, I guess MNBrewer Aug 2013 #3
Frequently it is how we express opinions Fearless Aug 2013 #7
I don't disagree with your comments, but therein lies the problem. Behind the Aegis Aug 2013 #8
Well, it IS better than the moderators Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #13
Exactly. Jamastiene Aug 2013 #16
The hosts have done more to protect this group Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 #18
That does seem like a fairly major oversight. After all, why should "outsiders" get to tell you guys nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #25
And a few of the alerters Puglover Aug 2013 #31
Hi Pab, pinto Aug 2013 #23
I was a mod as well. Puglover Aug 2013 #32
Agreed Fearless Aug 2013 #19
! blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #9
Surely these people are just trolls? Like from conservative websites? Oakenshield Aug 2013 #10
IMO, both. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #12
Not only trolls from conservative websites. Jamastiene Aug 2013 #17
Unfortunately we are all beating a dead horse. William769 Aug 2013 #21
For examples take a look at our blocked posters list Fearless Aug 2013 #20
To varying degrees, yes there are. People who may say, superficially, "I'm cool with the gays!" nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #26
Well they should feel embarresment, but not because of the LGBT community. Oakenshield Aug 2013 #28
No argument from me whatsoever. I think quite a few people need to take a look at themselves. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #29
I have to agree Libertas1776 Aug 2013 #11
You summed the problem up very well. Meanwhile, I'm just shaking my head at some of these folks. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #27
Funny thing is The Philosopher Aug 2013 #14
Tell me about it dbackjon Aug 2013 #15
K&R NealK Aug 2013 #24
Well there is one less big homophobe in DU land today. And that is def something to celebrate stevenleser Aug 2013 #30

MuseRider

(34,314 posts)
1. Very true and it really
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:09 PM
Aug 2013

disturbs me. Some of them are just against anyone who is not them. I guess they see a limited amount of freedom or equality available and they don't want to risk losing theirs?

I don't understand it. Never have and I never will.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
2. A few questions
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:12 AM
Aug 2013

Are we allowed to see who alerted on a post?
Are people alerting on posts to the LGBT forum?
Can forum administrators initiate alerts?
Is there an appeal process?

There seems to be an awful lot of censorship on DU of late, specifically of LGBT posts. Or maybe I'm just noticing them more?

William769

(55,783 posts)
4. Over the top post against LGBT are not being hidden.
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:31 AM
Aug 2013

Which is starting to piss off some in the LGBT community and those posts are being hidden. This is just my opinion though (which are usually right on the money).

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
5. Yeah, but when we complain...
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:46 AM
Aug 2013

... we're just being "thin skinned". I think there are some folks on DU who have a trigger finger when it comes to alerting on GLBT posts. One has to wonder if it's just a few people with a real problem or a coordinated agenda.

Fearless

(18,448 posts)
6. Ok...
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:18 AM
Aug 2013

1. You don't see who alerted.
2. Yes they were.
3. They could I suppose. Some LGBT hosts do frequently, myself included. We tend to be online the most, so it makes sense that we tend to catch things first.
4. No, the jury is final.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
3. We're really not in control of our own forum, I guess
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:17 AM
Aug 2013

We must kowtow to the "community standards" of the heterosexual dictatorship.

Fearless

(18,448 posts)
7. Frequently it is how we express opinions
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:21 AM
Aug 2013

Not what opinions we express that are cause for difficulties.

Most jurors don't go into great detail beyond a post itself to determine if something is ok or not. So, I seem to see that many more posts are hidden if they come across as attacking or angry than if they are saying the same thing in a different manner. I'm not justifying such incidences or not, I just describe what I see most.

Behind the Aegis

(54,671 posts)
8. I don't disagree with your comments, but therein lies the problem.
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 02:24 AM
Aug 2013

As a white person, I can still have difficulty understanding issues which may affect an African-American, and sometimes, it can be their anger. It is the same with us, though we aren't given nearly the amount of respect or deference afforded ethnic minorities. So when someone who isn't gay, no matter how close to the community, with perhaps the exception of some hardcore allies, sees our anger, they don't have a clue and treat it in much the way one might for someone who is just pissed off.

Perhaps it is time for a discussion about the jury system, instead of the oft-used, "well, it's better than the moderators" meme that is used to make excuses for bad, and sometimes, horrific posts getting a pass, especially when against our community.

 

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
13. Well, it IS better than the moderators
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 08:32 AM
Aug 2013

It used to be that you had a pocket of homophobes with godlike powers to filibuster removing anti-gay posts and zap pro-gay ones.

Now there is at least a chance that you will get a pro-gay jury.

However, maybe the time has come to restrict the juries to non-safe-haven groups.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
16. Exactly.
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 11:54 AM
Aug 2013

Or let only members of safe haven groups be on juries of posts alerted in those safe haven groups. That sad thing about the recent alerted posts that have been hidden in our group is that hosts cannot override the jury. So, basically, the rest of DU is getting to dictate to us what we can and cannot say in a safe haven group. That's not right. Other safe haven groups are allowed to post links to the various forms of prejudice on DU, but not the LGBT Group. It seems we have always had a double standard applied to us in the LGBT community on DU. It's not right. I just wish hosts hands were tied when it comes to what juries decide in our group. We should be able to come here and say how we feel without the anti-gay rights posters of DU dictating to us what we can and cannot say.

 

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
18. The hosts have done more to protect this group
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:06 PM
Aug 2013

than a thousand juries ever could. At least if juries let homophobic stuff slide (as happened in here recently) the hosts can still lock out the poster.

Something tells me that if an organized group of LGBT people started patrolling the other groups to alert on the kind of stuff we get alerted on by their gangs, then we'd start seeing other groups call for the end of juries in safe havens.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
25. That does seem like a fairly major oversight. After all, why should "outsiders" get to tell you guys
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:19 AM
Aug 2013

what you can and can't say in your own forum?

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
31. And a few of the alerters
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:56 AM
Aug 2013

are openly hostile to LGTB interests in the context of any criticism of President Obama. I have a huge problem with this.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
23. Hi Pab,
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 02:29 PM
Aug 2013

I was a long term mod on DU2 and have to say we really worked at objectivity and fairness within the guidelines we were given. As did DU's administrators. DU3 grew out of that period in many ways, if I understand it correctly. Now we have a community jury system. I support that - a random selection of active DUers to review an alerted post. Alerted being the key function.

Results vary, obviously. Some don't sit well with me, some do. Figure that it's the same for most other DUers.

I think it's an on going aspect for DU. And I know Admin is looking at the whole process.

(personal aside) "Pocket of homophobes" in re: DU2 mods kind of stung. I'm gay and never got that sense working with the moderator teams.

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
32. I was a mod as well.
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:58 AM
Aug 2013

And I did. Certainly if criticism of President Obama was involved LGTB interests came in a very very distant 2nd place.

Oakenshield

(626 posts)
10. Surely these people are just trolls? Like from conservative websites?
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 04:15 AM
Aug 2013

Are there really genuine liberal homophobes here on DU?

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
17. Not only trolls from conservative websites.
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 11:58 AM
Aug 2013

Yes, there are really genuine liberal homophobes on DU, many of them long time posters on DU. We have gone around and around with them for years now. They get by with it because they pull the old "I know a gay person in real life" defense and that seems to help them get away with it with the powers that be on DU.

William769

(55,783 posts)
21. Unfortunately we are all beating a dead horse.
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:29 PM
Aug 2013

I have always held out hope that things would change and they did for awhile on DU3. But we are back into the same old pattern of how it used to be.

I am almost to the point of saying fuck it, it's not worth it any more. There are plenty of places to go where Terms of Service actually means something and isn't a fucking joke.

It seems the more equality we get the more some want to fight back in other ways than just looking like the bigots they are.

We are here, we are queer and we ain't going no fucking where and some people just can't handle that.

Now go ahead & hide this fucking post bigots!

Fearless

(18,448 posts)
20. For examples take a look at our blocked posters list
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:14 PM
Aug 2013

On the About Page. Several long time generally liberal posters.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
26. To varying degrees, yes there are. People who may say, superficially, "I'm cool with the gays!"
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:24 AM
Aug 2013

but when LGBT-rights issues actually come up they display a thinly veiled hostility, as if they consider LGBT people an embarrassment or liability within the progressive movement.

Oakenshield

(626 posts)
28. Well they should feel embarresment, but not because of the LGBT community.
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:43 AM
Aug 2013

No, shame is a better word. They should be ashamed of possessing such bigotry. I've been posting more often here lately, and I'm beginning to think genuine liberals aren't the majority here after all. Especially given this revelation. One would think after eight years of mocking Bush and the ultra-partisanship of the Republicans it would be easy for us to remain consistent in our defense of civil liberties across the board. It should be a source of immense pride that we're willing to be the champions of LGBT rights. That we're determined to rise above dogmatic traditions and prejudices.

Guess we still have a lot of work ahead of us. Pity these people couldn't just slink over to the tea party, I'm sure their medieval platform would be much more agreeable.






nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
29. No argument from me whatsoever. I think quite a few people need to take a look at themselves.
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 06:20 AM
Aug 2013

And needless to say, folks like you should never be embarrassed about who you are, and folks like me should never be embarrassed about sticking up for you.

Libertas1776

(2,888 posts)
11. I have to agree
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 06:46 AM
Aug 2013

it seems general oversight of LGBT matters round these parts are more and more erring on the, shall we say, "laissez faire" side. Anything from homophobic commentary to outright anti-gay vitriol? Hands off! LGBT response to said, perhaps sprinkled with a little vim and vinegar, justifiably so considering the homophobic verbal spew as of late? Censor! Hide! Delete!

I lament that this country has no major Social democratic parties a la Western Europe or Canada where gay rights have become cemented party platforms in this modern age. The generally center to center right Democratic Party is, on it's most "liberal" of days more akin to a moderate Christian democratic party you find in other countries. Unfortunately, it is the only electable channel in this country for left of centers, liberals, progressives, social democrats, and so on. Being such a huge, "catch all" party, any liberalism, progressivism and the rarer social democratism is heavily diluted by the multitudes of center righters, and right wingers (I am using standards found in most of the rest of the world since our "conservatives" would usually pass for far right to extreme right elsewhere and our "moderates" and moderate dems would pass for right wing elsewhere) and thus the party platform "if it can be called that" on LGBT is porous and anything but cemented.

Instead, you have plenty of "Democrats" who seemingly view gay rights as an inconvenience. Not necessarily opposed to it, but would prefer it didn't rear it's head all the time. "Aren't you people ever satisfied?? Can't you just wait until after the election?? Must you be so selfish??"

And then, on occasion, there are members who are just plain homophobic, unapologetically so. Oh, and don't even get me started on folks who like to race bait the LGBTs here.

Sigh

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
27. You summed the problem up very well. Meanwhile, I'm just shaking my head at some of these folks.
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:35 AM
Aug 2013

So oblivious to their own glaring biases, all the while posturing as more-lefty-than-thou (like the "race baiters" you mentioned) and claiming it's other people who are the bullies.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
15. Tell me about it
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 10:40 AM
Aug 2013

HAving many, many posts hidden.


You get posts hidden for protesting homophobia
You get posts hidden for exposing the homophobia at DU
You get posts hidden for exposing the hypocrisy of the fence-breaking admins
You get posts hidden because yes, there are groups that follow certain posters around alerting on everything they post.


The jury system is broken. The latest change made it even more so - it has restricted the pool of jurors to a small clique.

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