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Beautiful picture from Facebook...you NEED to see this (Original Post) WillParkinson Nov 2013 OP
Greatest Page for this beautiful picture...and its beautiful sentiment... CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2013 #1
We'wha GeorgeGist Nov 2013 #2
kewl Heather MC Nov 2013 #13
Grand slam ! pangaia Nov 2013 #36
Wonderful. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #3
True... Triana Nov 2013 #4
this is a great thread. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #8
They don't persuade Aerows Nov 2013 #11
true BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #15
Sad, isn't it? calimary Nov 2013 #27
it is sad....such a beautiful culture, BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #38
So very true! Isoldeblue Nov 2013 #16
That is easy Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #24
Not precisely true Bozvotros Nov 2013 #26
I love the term 'two-spirit' people. The Wielding Truth Nov 2013 #32
Me, too. It really is beautiful RetiredTrotskyite Nov 2013 #45
Thank you for posting this cntrygrl Nov 2013 #5
Welcome to DU, cntrygrl! calimary Nov 2013 #28
Thank you! I have cntrygrl Nov 2013 #42
Just finished reading cntrygrl Nov 2013 #43
Thanks for posting n/t joesdaughter Nov 2013 #6
Beautiful! tosh Nov 2013 #7
I did not know that. Excellent. n/t DirkGently Nov 2013 #9
A-HO!!!!! Scruffy Rumbler Nov 2013 #10
K&R Change has come Nov 2013 #12
Religion Far Too Often Practices Intolerance Rather Than Love and Acceptence grilled onions Nov 2013 #14
Fantastic! Isoldeblue Nov 2013 #17
Source? Plantaganet Nov 2013 #18
We need to tell the RW Nuts "Teh Gay is in the soil - So much for Jesus Land". Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #19
You learn something new every day. Curmudgeoness Nov 2013 #20
Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Nov 2013 #21
k&r idwiyo Nov 2013 #22
Good post, thank you. Learned a lot on this thread, thanks to all. mountain grammy Nov 2013 #23
K&R me b zola Nov 2013 #25
Christianity stomped down so many older, wiser belief systems that were based on reverence Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #29
!! BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #39
K & R SunSeeker Nov 2013 #30
K&R! sheshe2 Nov 2013 #31
excellent gopiscrap Nov 2013 #33
Love it!!!! tblue Nov 2013 #34
K&R! Rebellious Republican Nov 2013 #35
Learn something new every day. 4dsc Nov 2013 #37
K&R n/t lupinella Nov 2013 #40
KnR. Thanks for this reminder of the fluidity of culture and gender Hekate Nov 2013 #41
Thank you! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2013 #44

GeorgeGist

(25,319 posts)
2. We'wha
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:10 PM
Nov 2013


"In 1886 the nation's capital hosted a remarkable cultural ambassador. The "Zuni maiden" named We'wha mingled with "the most enlightened society of the metropolis," demonstrated arts and crafts, befriended the Speaker of the House and other dignitaries, and appeared in a major charity event to the "deafening applause" of an audience that included President Grover Cleveland. Although he was the "tallest, certainly the strongest" member of his tribe, and despite his "rather large" features, no one in Washington doubted that We'wha was a woman. It was a long way from the dusty pueblo in New Mexico where We'wha lived as a traditional Zuni berdache - a man who preferred women's work and adopted female dress. But for such an individual exceptional behavior was expected. Zunis believed that men skilled at women's crafts (and women skilled in male activities) combined the two sexes. This made them extraordinary in every respect."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We'wha
 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
4. True...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:23 PM
Nov 2013

"

Two-spirit people were respected by native societies not only due to religious attitudes, but also because of practical concerns. Because their gender roles involved a mixture of both masculine and feminine traits, two-spirit persons could do both the work of men and of women. They were often considered to be hard workers and artistically gifted, of great value to their extended families and community. Among some groups, such as the Navajo, a family was believed to be economically benefited by having a "nadleh" (literally translated as "one who is transformed&quot androgynous person as a relative. Two-spirit persons assisted their siblings' children and took care of elderly relatives, and often served as adoptive parents for homeless children.

A feminine male who preferred to do women's work (gathering wild plants or farming domestic plants) was logically expected to marry a masculine male, who did men's work (hunting and warfare). Because a family needed both plant foods and meat, a masculine female hunter, in turn, usually married a feminine female, to provide these complementary gender roles for economic survival. The gender-conforming spouse of two-spirit people did not see themselves as "homosexual" or as anything other than "normal".In the 20th-century, as homophobic European Christian influences increased among many Native Americans, respect for same-sex love and for androgynous persons greatly declined. Two-spirit people were often forced, either by government officials, Christian missionaries or their own community, to conform to standard gender roles. Some, who could not conform, either went underground or committed suicide. With the imposition of Euro-American marriage laws, same-sex marriages between two-spirit people and their spouses were no longer legally recognised. But with the revitalisation of Native American "red power" cultural pride since the 60s, and the rise of gay and lesbian liberation movements at the same time, a new respect for androgyny started slowly re-emerging among American Indian people.
"

SOURCE: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/oct/11/two-spirit-people-north-america

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
8. this is a great thread.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:46 PM
Nov 2013

Makes me wonder how it is that religions which teach such hate manage to persuade so many.

I love the traditional Native American understanding.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
27. Sad, isn't it?
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:13 PM
Nov 2013

Sometimes just damn discouraging. I keep thinking about that prayer - "Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers!"

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
38. it is sad....such a beautiful culture,
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:36 AM
Nov 2013

Positive philosophies crushed by authoritarian power throughout history.

Liberals--the people who believe in compassion and respect for life of ALL kinds--must never give up. I'm glad the interwebz breaks down the isolation that kept us separated and weak.

Strength in numbers!

Isoldeblue

(1,135 posts)
16. So very true!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:40 PM
Nov 2013

Your post really struck a chord with me. I am a direct product of organized religion (brought up in a whacko non-denominational, evangelical, fundamentalist church), that has taken me years of therapy to heal my warped sense of God and myself.

The American Indians have the purest beliefs that benefit nature and seven generations ahead of their current one. How sad we didn't take many lessons from them, on top of the horrendous violence we perpetrated on them. It is a stain that can never be erased.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
24. That is easy
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:31 PM
Nov 2013

By Threats. ie. If during the span of your existence in the material plane (evidently, conception to death), you commit a single infraction through intent or ignorance (evidently, by action or thought) you will be punished. A moments weakness earns 14 trillion years+ of torture by fire, ice, and dismemberment; because Jesus loves you.

Bozvotros

(785 posts)
26. Not precisely true
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:09 PM
Nov 2013

You may sin like a mofo right up to the end of your life. Rob, steal, rape, brutalize even kill people as long as before you die you believe (or say you believe) something along the lines of this.......

God, split himself into three parts and one of those parts came down to earth. Despite creating the entire universe including the human race to whom he gave free will, apparently had no choice himself except to have this part he sent to earth, brutally tortured and killed in the bloodiest way possible because the God parts still in heaven, needed to have a blood sacrifice of sufficient horror to atone for the humans they made fucking up and especially for not believing in him/them. if he didn't have himself killed like this he would also have no choice but to torture everyone who ever lived who didn't believe or say they believed this for 14 trillion years. There's also a talking snake,, a flood that kills everyone, talking fiery bushes, cannibalistic rituals, zombies and blood up to a horses eye.

I hope that was helpful.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
28. Welcome to DU, cntrygrl!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:17 PM
Nov 2013

Glad you're here! This is a wonderful perspective I wish this country would take into account more often. Our tribal people have been so wretchedly treated! And they have so much to offer us and to teach us.

cntrygrl

(356 posts)
42. Thank you! I have
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 10:44 PM
Nov 2013

tried to learn more about the Native Americans and when I read about the Two Spirit people (about 15 years ago) I couldn't understand why it took me so long to find these facts.

It seems the more I learn, the more I'm ashamed of my heritage (both parents German) and can't help but wonder if ancestors on my fathers side had treated your people badly. My first ancestor here was in 1750, Pennsylvania.

As a teenager I began turning against organized religion. Again, the more I learned the more I pulled away. Christianity has a horrid history and I will never understand why anyone would belong to it.



cntrygrl

(356 posts)
43. Just finished reading
Thu Nov 21, 2013, 08:03 PM
Nov 2013

"Henry Hudson and The Algonquins of New York." Throughout my life I have been very interested in the First People and since I was born in the Catskills of NY (Ellenville) I thought I could learn more. Have you heard of this? A wonderful book by an author, Evan T. Pritchard, who is Algonquin/Celtic descent. I wasn't prepared for the vast amount of knowledge it offers.

tosh

(4,423 posts)
7. Beautiful!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:45 PM
Nov 2013

Thanks for posting this...and thanks for replies 2 & 4, too.
I'm truly glad to learn of this.

Scruffy Rumbler

(961 posts)
10. A-HO!!!!!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:17 PM
Nov 2013

Weinkte, wienkta dance with me!

Thank you, Will for this uplifting and much needed reminder of who we have been for millions of people, over thousands of years....sacred, loved and loving people that bring and keep balance in the family, in the tribe and in nations.

grilled onions

(1,957 posts)
14. Religion Far Too Often Practices Intolerance Rather Than Love and Acceptence
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:36 PM
Nov 2013

Instead of tolerating those who do not believe as they do they spend all their time condemning them,trying to shame them to change them. Everyone is expected to live as they do. It makes little difference if they are not harming anyone or any community. The hateful continue to press--to force their will and ideals onto others. It is truly sad to read that many ended up committing suicide because of some narrow minded bigots in our history's past. We are all the poorer for it.

Isoldeblue

(1,135 posts)
17. Fantastic!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:48 PM
Nov 2013

Despite the fact that they were not considered to be living as civilly as us (whatever the F that means), their humanity and love of life and nature, far surpasses us "white settler's" notion and ideals by unimaginably, relative numbers. They put us "civilians" to shame.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
29. Christianity stomped down so many older, wiser belief systems that were based on reverence
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:30 PM
Nov 2013

for nature and respect for females. It's time for the worm to turn again.

Hekate

(90,645 posts)
41. KnR. Thanks for this reminder of the fluidity of culture and gender
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 01:58 PM
Nov 2013

When I read The Chalice and the Blade lo these many years ago, the concept of the paradigm shift struck me as it did so many others: Perpetual war is not universal, subjugation of women is not universal; there are other ways of living. We can choose to re-create our culture. We have so much to learn from others.

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