Honest parenting questions re: tweens..

[Oscarmonster13]

I have a couple delicate questions to ask but I don't want to offend or make it seem like I am trying to stir shit.
Let's see where do I start?

My kid just entered middle school this year. We are a really liberal family and my kids actually impress me with their level of maturity when it comes to being accepting and non-prejuduced regarding race, sexual orientation, etc... so that's all cool.

There's a few of her friends who say they are bi and lesbian, and a guy she recently liked turns out to be gay...okay here's my question - How can you know that at 11 or 12 years old?
I just think that maybe these kids are saying this or trying these roles to be 'fashionable' now...or can you really be that sure of your orientation that young?(am i an idiot?) I just think you should at least get more than *halfway* through puberty before you start leaning one way or another...especially before acting on it! sheesh, I won't let my 12 year old date, how is it these kids are having these experiences so young?

With this comes another dilemma...sleepovers. If my daughter wants to have all the girls over that's fine, but I feel like I have to designate that the girls who are 'dating' can't come together, because that's like allowing a co-ed sleepover where someone can make out with their boyfriend...right?

I feel like such an old fogey asking these questions, but I am seriously confounded at how to handle this angle of parenting...

[The Philosopher]

2. Where. To. Start.

First, you begin with the question "How does a pre-teen know s/he is gay?" and that's an entirely okay question to ask. You're not gay yourself, I assume, so this is new water for you; this is new water for many people who aren't gay, bisexual or transgender.

But...you go and give a certain opinion, which is a problem. It isn't a problem that you have an opinion, but the content of that opinion and your assurance you don't want to cause any problems or offend. See, the answer to the first question is simple: how does your daughter know she liked that boy, who turned out to be gay? The response to your offensive opinion is this: you want LGBT children to not "lean" one way or another until they are in High School, but that position assumes that children are inherently heterosexual and not transgender. But that assumption is wrong. You don't start being straight and then turn gay, nor do you just decide one day you don't like being a man or a woman and want an operation. Like your own heterosexuality (assuming you are one), homosexuality is there from birth. Society does provide a lot of sexuality as you grow up, but inherently you're LGBT or you're straight (to simply things). It's not a choice, so no one can hold off "leaning" until High School. Like your daughter showing her heterosexuality when finding out a boy she liked was gay, that boy showed his homosexuality by, you know, being gay.

Now, you may be earnest in asking these questions, and really are confounded. But you have to understand that the opinion you gave is offensive because it assumes we're all straight and we simply choose to be LGBT (to put it simply). I don't know why you decided to say you didn't want to be offensive, and then offer up that opinion without considering the impact. But, it's okay, people make mistakes. What you do from here on out shows your character. Just remember, like your daughter, all the other kids are human beings. Human beings are complex little adults, still growing, still finding themselves. But that started a long time before you could have a conversation with them. I knew I was gay when I was illiterate and thought Superman was real, although I didn't discover the term for it until later, after I learned what a faggot and a fairy was. Some learn later, for various reasons. But we all lean that way early on. Because we're human, just like straight people.

[Oscarmonster13]

3. that's exactly what I didn't want to do, offend

That's why my assumptions aren't openly offered or voiced, at least not with any authority. I told my daughter I could be completely off base, because the whole thing is perplexing to me, cus i have never walked on that side of the road.

So at least I am honest about my ignorance, that's where you have to excuse the offense, because it's just not something I know how to address...

I actually *just* had this conversation with my best friend, who I have known since we were 12 (she called a few minutes ago)...and she pointed out some really great insights...
First, having more gay friends than I have and having conversations with them, she offered that most of them say they knew from a very young age...so I guess my idea that it has to come about around or after puberty is a fallacy. Second, she pointed out we are all sexual creatures from birth, we play with ourselves when we are little, explore, play doctor with others, etc...which is no different for any of us...
Also, she pointed out our own obsession with Rick Springfield at 12 and how we would get so turned on just listening to his music, and surely we were no different than any 12 year old having early sexual feelings.
We talked about how much times have changed in that many people who we went to school with may have had to hide it and how it's probably showing up more in my kid's school and social experience because it IS that much more accepted than 30 years ago...

She agreed with me about the sleepover thing, since it's the same principle as a boy/girl sleepover which wouldnt be cool either.

anyway, thanks for understanding that I meant on offense in the asking, just trying to be a liberal mom and stay hip enough to not alienate my daughter's friends

[uppityperson]

4. I replied, self deleted, thought more. To start with a question to you. How old were you when you

had your first crush?

I had mine in 1st grade, my sexual orientation was obvious to me then. Same with my sister, first grade for and her orientation was obvious to her then. One of us is heterosexual, one lesbian. We both knew long before we were pubescent. Long before we "acted" on it.

Do you wonder how can someone know their sexual orientation years before their body becomes sexually mature? We are born sexually active. Have you ever seen an infant or toddler with her or his hand in their pants for comfort? While not acceptable in most social situations it is very very common. Self gratification, self comfort is not sexual orientation, but is sexual, even if not mature.

Sexual orientation is innate. You are born how you are born. Even before you have sex with another person. Even if you never ever have sex with another person. Even if you have sex with person contrary to your orientation. Yes, some people do experiment to figure out where they are along the line as there are many different variations. But for many of us, we know from a young age.


As far as the sleepover, we had boys and girls over all the time, and did we ever go through nachos and other food. They had no desire to neck in front of us adults, especially 11/12 year olds. But then they weren't doing so otherwise until they were older. More crushing and giggling. I do not see how saying "you 2 like each other so both can't join the sleepover" will do much positive, need to think on this one more.

ETA, I write this as the hetero-sister who supports people all along the lines. Saw your OP when you posted it, been thinking about it and wanted to reply from viewpoint of me. If I am inappropriate doing so, please let me know.

[Oscarmonster13]

5. totally

I get all of your points...but the sleepover one. My daughter actually agrees with me on this, that if her friends are saying openly they are dating and snogging, they shouldn't be sleeping over at my house. That's just *my* house rule, no matter the gender or age... I have let my son have friends over while my daughter had friends over, and let them hang out together and watch movies in the room, etc...but the minute the lights went out and they wanted to 'slow dance' they were separated. I guess that's some leftover from my own repressed mother...but hey, it's my house, so I can call that kind of shot!

I appreciate your feedback and definitely agree we are sexual from young ages. I had a crush in 2nd grade, but ya, never 'acted' on it in a sexual way... It was just weird for me to hear kids 'coming out' in middle school. I guess I am not as open-minded as I think I am sometimes...

[Fearless]

6. I'll agree with uppityperson regarding the how do they know so young question

As for the second one, I'd suggest this course of action:

You do not want sleepovers to become sexual or sensual in nature. It isn't an issue that only has to do with sexual orientation. It's true that you wouldn't want your daughter to have boys over either. You should designate sleepovers for groups that are ONLY friends and nothing more. Of course, if some kids want to come over who are dating during the day, that's fine, but you don't feel comfortable having them sleep over as there is less supervision and you don't feel comfortable having sexuality or sensuality expressed in the house at that age.

If it was me, I'd also add that you don't feel it's wrong that their friends are dating, regardless of sexual orientation. It's just a big responsibility that people need to take special care with while engaging in any kinds of sexual activity. And, that you feel that as an adult you don't feel comfortable with bearing the responsibility that an adult must bear in supervising a sleepover in these cases. You feel it should be left up to the responsible parents of those children to monitor and advise their children on exploring their relationships.

That's my two cents anyway.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. Don't understand the "fashionable" part of it

It is easier and more acceptable to be LGBT but I'm not sure it's actually "fashionable". At any rate, adolescence is when they are starting to form their identity and sometimes they are in the process of "trying on" various labels and identities though there is still a lot of prejudice around LGBT identity and not everybody have parents whom would are as accepting of LGBTs

[nomorenomore08]

8. I know you mean well, but sexual orientation is just as basic and innate for gays as for straights.

Therefore the "How can you know?" question, other than for the minority of kids who may be questioning or ambivalent - or simply bisexual - really doesn't need to be asked, because one's sexuality, whether gay or hetero, is generally self-evident from an early age, certainly well before puberty in most cases. I myself, from about the age of 6, knew instinctively that I "liked girls," and while I don't discount the influences of a heteronormative society, in my case it seems pretty hard-wired.

Seems to me that that question, however innocently intended, carries the implication that "straight" is the default setting and that other possibilities differ from the "norm." Which may well be hurtful to a young gay kid who hasn't fully come to terms with themselves.

Understand that I'm not trying to pick on you - I think it's good that you're considering these issues with a (hopefully) open mind. But kids, especially at such a vulnerable age as early adolescence, need all the affirmation and support they can get, and it's often very easy to hurt their feelings without even meaning to.

[Oscarmonster13]

9. ...

I haven't asked that question to any of the kids in question...I did say it to my daughter but it was just more of an "I don't get it" moment. I also admit that I have the conditioning to think straight is the default...but the belief isn't meant as an insult.
I appreciate the responses here...thanks for having the conversation...

[nomorenomore08]

10. No problem. I'm not the expert on this issue by any means, being heterosexual, but I try

to share my own insights at least.