My mom finally said it clearly...

[knowledgeispwr]

I mostly lurk in this forum, but I wanted to de-lurk to share an important moment that happened this week.

Earlier this spring, I married my partner of over 6 years at our local courthouse. It was one of the happiest days of my life. I shared the news with my immediately family, who I am not super close to. My dad sent congratulations, my sister thanked me for letting her know, and mom said nothing.

Those reactions are nothing new. My dad has been generally supportive, my sister and mother distant when it comes to me and my now husband. We moved into our current home and first house a couple of summers ago. Dad came and visited a couple of months later (we live in the same county), my sister came for the first time around the holidays last year (which was also the first time she met my now-husband) and mom has never visited. My husband's family, who lives much further away, has been over many times in just two years. I should also mention for context that my parents are married and have been married and together for a long time.

I decided to try extend an olive branch again and invited my parents over for dinner at our house in a couple of weeks. Dad agreed and Mom communicated, through Dad, that her answer was 'no'. After the last couple of years of occasional small talk and just accepting the silence and distance, I decided to call Mom to ask her about these things directly.

I asked her point blank why she wouldn't come for dinner. She said, "No thanks". I pressed. She responded, "I don't approve." I asked, "Why not?". She said, "It's not what I believe?".
-"What do you believe?"
-"What the Bible says. Marriage isn't between a man and a man, but one man and one woman."
-"Okay. So does that mean that you don't plan on ever coming to our house?"
-"Yes. I cannot go over there and go against my beliefs."

At that point, I told her "okay" and wished her a pleasant evening. She started to say "Knowledge, you're my son..." and I told her "Goodbye". She also said "goodbye" and I hung up.

While part of me is angry about how she is behaving, strangely, part of me is happy and relieved. I tried again and this time, I directly asked her why she was avoiding us. I am also glad she gave me a clear and direct answer. I was not surprised by her response, so I wasn't devastated. I was a little surprised at how easily she said it, however. I am not sacrificing my life to live according to her religious ideals. I am done worrying about if I have been a good enough son or if I was "trying hard enough" to reach out. Dad is still planning on coming over for dinner and I hope it turns out well.

Anyway, I thought I'd share as a way to work through some of my feelings. Thanks all who stop by and read.

[randys1]

1. This makes me so sad, and angry. There is SO much love for you from so many who

dont even know you, yet you have to deal with this.

MY son's mother wont give him the time of day for no reason, other than she is petty and childish.

Kills my son.

I love him , I love you too

[knowledgeispwr]

16. Thank you!

Messages like yours mean a lot.

I'm sorry about the situation your son is in. At least you are there to love him!

[daleanime]

2. ......

[knowledgeispwr]

14. Thanks!

[peace13]

3. My best to you and your husband.

It is good to keep communication open and you did your best. Who knows, as time goes on she may open her heart. For now you have done all that can be done. : )

[Sherman A1]

6. Agreed

You said precisely what I was going to say, so I will only add that I agree completely with your thoughts.

[knowledgeispwr]

13. Thanks to you both.

I have tried to stay open to communication and I won't shut her out if she contacts me. If she does though, we need to have a real conversation -- no small talk that skirts around the fact that I am happily married.

[Omaha Steve]

23. x 3

K&R!

[elleng]

4. Thanks for sharing,

and hugs to your Dad.

[knowledgeispwr]

12. Thanks...

He will get a big hug when he hopefully comes to dinner next week.

[leftofcool]

5. This is one of the saddest things I know.

I am so glad you are relieved though and while you should never worry whether or not you have been a good son, always remember to pick up the phone once in a while and call her just to tell her you love her.

[knowledgeispwr]

11. I have done that, from time to time, although less so in the past couple of years

I used to call on holidays, but she doesn't celebrate those anymore. I think it has to do with her particular religious beliefs now, which is some form of Christianity.

[leftieNanner]

29. Nope, not Christianity

If Christianity means following the teachings of Christ. What she is doing is anti-christian in my book.

Sad for you, but pleased that you cleared up the questions. It's her loss.

Best of luck and love to you and your husband!

[No Vested Interest]

45. Could your mother be under the strong influence of a clergyperson?

Are you able to speak with your Dad re the hurt, pain and anger of your mother's/his wife's rejection of your marriage?
Is it the marriage or more so the relationship itself that offends her?

I ask about the influence of a clergyperson, because it occurs to me that she may be counseled by someone in her faith who she may fear going against, for whatever reason.

Peace to you.

[knowledgeispwr]

47. Possibly, though I don't really know.

Mom has always been religiously conservative, so much so that she voted for Bush in 2000 (blegh! - maybe she fell for that 'compassionate conservative nonsense) but then voted for Kerry and Obama.

While, like I mentioned, Dad has been generally supportive, I don't see him as being able to really influence Mom in this way. I remember, while growing up, Mom would dutifully take me and my sister to church and Dad would sit out. He was never very religious so it's doubtful to me that he could reach her on this.

The marriage is an exclamation point on the fact that my mother thinks being gay is wrong. She called a family meeting several years ago because I upset my sister by coming out to her. At that meeting she declared it wasn't "truth" (in an absolutist, religious sense). I told her repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. So Mom has already been distant. It didn't just start with the marriage, she objected to me moving in with my then boyfriend to an apartment, she didn't anything really when we bought a house a few years ago, never visited or came to the housewarming and ignored our engagement.

[No Vested Interest]

53. Re Bush in 2000 - Some voted for Bush because they coudn't get beyond

the Clinton-Lewinsky affair. - They found it so "disgusting" that their political view was shaped by it.
Obviously, your Mother is very dogmatic in her view, and not open to altering her belief no matter who is involved or what science has now proven.

Your task now, knowledgeispwr, is to not let this most hurtful situation embitter you.
Not easy, but there is nothing to be gained by becoming inwardly poisoned by the circumstance you cannot control.

[knowledgeispwr]

56. I agree that bitterness won't help at all.

That's why I've been trying to focus on the positive.

My situation is light-years better than what others have had to go through and for that, I'm thankful. My dad is supportive, my husband is fantastic, his family has welcomed me into their family with open arms, we have good close friends, we both have jobs and live in a nice house together in a peaceful area.

[Electric Monk]

7. Does she eat pork, or shellfish? Does she wear mixed fabrics, or gold jewellery?

Leviticus 11:8
Leviticus 11:10
Leviticus 19:19
Timothy 2: 9

Or does she pick and choose which parts of her Bible to follow and which to ignore?

[knowledgeispwr]

9. I'm not sure how strictly she follows it now...

I'm sure she picks and chooses at least to some extent. Honestly, I don't really feel like nitpicking the Bible with her.

[Electric Monk]

59. Here's a nice flowchart, perfect for your mom, from today's 'Toons (thanks n2doc!)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026724587

[knowledgeispwr]

61. Heh, funny!

Thanks, though I don't think this chart can beat through the justifications that Christians who are against marriage use. They can explain away the Old Testament (Leviticus) with 'New Covenant' and then find several New Testament verses they can use to support man-woman marriage which they believe excludes gays. There is also a verse or two (I think in Romans) that plenty (though not all) of Christians see as condemning homosexuals.

Frankly, I don't think it should be relevant what the Bible says.

[Skittles]

8. I don't understand why people cannot just be happy their loved one is happy

that's all it takes for me

your mom needs a righteous ass kicking - her behavior is inexcusable.

[knowledgeispwr]

10. Definitely inexcusable n/t

[LostOne4Ever]

15. You did all you could, no one could ask for more

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I hope one day your mom realizes how much she is hurting you and comes around. Till then,[/font]

[MaggieD]

17. I know how difficult this is....

But I'm glad you made the choice to be happy and live your life for you instead of hers. Maybe at some point she wil come to understand that God (if there is one) would surely want her son to feel loved by his mother.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. I don't understand people who choose... well, anything actually, over family.

But I especially don't understand those who reject family for religion. I just don't understand it.

[awoke_in_2003]

58. People down here preach that crap...

god first, spouse second, children third. I am a lot simpler- family first, then me.

[No Vested Interest]

19. I'm glad your Dad is supportive. Your mother's attitude is likely hurtful to him

as well.
Glad your sister has made moves to recognize the factual situation.
Perhaps sometime you can meet with your mother outside your home.
In my mind, kindness and family are among the most important matters in the universe.
I hope one day your mother will come to see that, and that, in the meantime, you will not give up on her.

[knowledgeispwr]

35. My mom has met my husband...

Earlier on in our relationship, we went over to my parents house a few times (they only live about 25 minutes away). Usually, my mom would find a reason to be busy. She just had to do the laundry or clean the kitchen or clean the bathroom while we were over. The first time, I thought it was odd, but later I suspected and began to realize that it was her way of avoiding things. We also went out to dinner a couple of times, once when some extended family visited and offered to take us out to dinner. During that time period, we were having our house built and I was excitedly showing cousin (who is old enough to be my aunt) a floor plan and Mom seemed pretty disinterested.

Once we moved into our new home, she refused to come visit us and see it.

I do hope that sometime she will come around.

[SheilaT]

20. This is so sad, and so unfortunate.

And unfortunately, all too common.

It happens when the child marries someone outside the approved race, religion, or ethnic group also. And it's such a waste.

Neither of my sons is married, nor is either one currently in a relationship, but while it's reasonably easy to imagine they might fall in love with someone I don't particularly like, I would try very, very hard not to show that. Ever. But my default position is always that I expect I will like whoever they love.

At least your dad is willing to come over. Perhaps when he goes back home and tells your mom about how nice the dinner was, she'll relent if just for a good meal. Small joke there.

[mahannah]

21. ......

[Thespian2]

22. Thanks

for sharing your story...Someday your mom may understand that religion is simply not to be believed if it causes harm instead of good...

[logosoco]

24. I am so glad you have found happiness with your partner!

And I just wanted to hug you reading that!

As a mom, all I want is for my children to be happy and loving/loved. I cannot imagine not speaking to or seeing my children like your mother has done. My mother-in-law (and I've been with my husband 35 years) does not like me (sort of in an old fashioned I-took-her-son-away) and she sees my kids about an hour once a year (but is devoted to her daughters kids). It hurts and it took a long time to realize I just cannot let her negativity mess me up!
If you love your partner, than you HAVE been a good son, because that is the "success" of a parent, to raise loving people!

I wish you years of love and peace and happiness to you and your partner! Outside of air and water, all we need is love!

[knowledgeispwr]

36. You sound like a great mom!

Thanks!

[Evergreen Emerald]

25. Congrats on your marriage

and I am sorry about your mother. Your dad seems like a great guy.

[mountain grammy]

26. I have seen parents cut off children for the worst reasons..

My grandfather (an orthodox Jew) cut off my mother when she married a Catholic. My grandmother and aunts and uncles ignored my grandfather's edict of no contact, and he eventually came around, and soon after died of cancer. He never got back the time with his daughter and grandchildren that he lost to his religion.
I hope your mom comes around soon, as I suspect she will since she's now outnumbered with your sister on board. Life and time with children are too precious to waste. Good luck to all of you. Congratulations on your marriage.

Another thing, my mom never let my grandfather get away with it. She addressed her letters to him and sent him cards and pictures for his birthday (we lived far away.) He never answered, but my grandmother said he read the letters before he handed them off to her, and, when he died, she found the cards and pictures hidden away. Mom never gave up on her dad, and they did reconcile, however briefly.

[knowledgeispwr]

37. It's good that your grandfather eventually came around...

I just hope my mom doesn't take as long, if she does come around.

My sister isn't really on board, but she has made more of an effort recently. She didn't meet my husband until nearly 6 years into our relationship, but she did come visit our house twice and acknowledge (although didn't congratulate us) for our wedding.

I will definitely keep communication channels open but right now I don't feel like going out of my way anymore with Mom. It's her move.

[mountain grammy]

42. As a mother, I can't think of any reason that I would cut off my children

it's just so sad and hurtful, but I've seen it many times.

You dad sounds like a gem, and good for him! I'm happy for you and your husband that he's stood by you.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[Ilsa]

27. I wish you and your husband all the best.

Your mom is missing out on having a wonderful relationship with you and your husband. I would feel sorry for her if I wasn't so angry. I'm glad you have your father's support.

I hope your sister manages to completely come around. After all, it is with our siblings that we typically have the longest relationships of our lives.

Best Wishes for a long and happy marriage!

[Solly Mack]

28. (((knowledgeispwr)))

[TNNurse]

30. I am so sorry for you.

You have maintained dignity and kindness. I am glad some of your family are less judgmental. I would and I suppose you would also love to hear the conversations between your parents on this matter. None of us agree with our spouses about everything, but hopefully we are in accord on the big stuff. Their son is "the big stuff" and I am sad for all of you.

Congratulations on your marriage. It takes work and effort under the best circumstances. I wish you many years of happiness.

[knowledgeispwr]

39. I do wonder how my parents address the situation between them...

I think my immediate family, my parents, my sister and I, aren't the most communicative people amongst ourselves. Ever since an uncomfortable family meeting about seven years ago called my mom because she was upset that I had come out to my (adult) sister, I haven't addressed it with them directly. I have shared about my life with my husband though since we've got together, including our trips, our house, our engagement and our marriage. I have no idea if they talk about it a lot, if they had some big discussion about it or if it is some uncomfortable elephant in the room that they don't really discuss with each other. I could see any of those possibilities.

Thanks for the well wishes!

[KT2000]

31. I am so sorry as I know it must hurt

Where I live there is a problem with "good Christian" parents throwing their kids out of the house when they learn they are gay. Usually, but not always, a family of one of their friends will take them in. I wonder who has more love in their hearts.

And for the life of me, I don't know what it even means to be a good Christian anymore. Maybe there should be a national awareness day for good Christians so they can have teach-ins and get to the bottom of their intolerance on this one subject. It is a dishonest indoctrination.

[passiveporcupine]

32. I'm so sorry for your loss

of your Mother's acceptance. But remember, her loss is probably just as great. She is probably beating herself up unconsciously over this, and will have to live with this torn feeling between loving you and hating your lifestyle. And hate is a horrible feeling to have to live with. Remember that and try to keep your heart open to her in her need. She may not be able to get past this hurdle, but if you can live with it and not learn to hate, then you have won. I think you are very strong and brave for wanting to bring this out in the open and reconcile with her.

Maybe she will change with time, but remember people often tend to become more conservative as they get older. So this may be just something you have to accept. I'm so sorry your family will have to live with this rift, possibly forever.



Oh, and congratulations on your wedding.

[knowledgeispwr]

40. I understand that this may be long term.

Her religious convictions are pretty strong.

I am resolved to live my life happily. Thanks for the kind words and well wishes.

[NikolaC]

33. I wish you well

. I'm glad that you dad and sister have been supportive. My son is 14 and his dad and I have already discussed sexuality with him and have assured him that we would love and support him regardless of whether he was gay, bi or straight. He is our son, we love him and nothing will change that.

I hope that you mother will one day come to realize what a gem she has in you and grow past her ignorance about who you are and who you married. Congratulations on your marriage and I wish you and your spouse the best and a lifetime of peace, healing and happiness.

[knowledgeispwr]

41. You son is a lucky guy...

to have parents who are so proactive and open-minded. If I had received such a talk at 14, it would've saved me a lot of agonizing, worry and self-suppression and rejection through my teen years. It wasn't until my sophomore and junior years of college that I began to finally accept myself and slowly come out to some friends.

[rock]

34. It seems to me

That your mom is the one that is giving up love which is honestly offered because she cannot control you. This is not a criticism so much as a shame. I wish you and you husband peace and love.

[brer cat]

38. To lose a parent's love

is so very painful. I am sorry you are going through this. Maybe some day she will realize that she is the loser in this relationship. Best wishes for you and your husband. I hope the joy of your marriage makes up for all the heartache.

[RKP5637]

43. Congratulations on your marriage and your accepting dad and somewhat supportive sister! About

your mom, religion has destroyed many a fine mind with hard core irrational beliefs. I'm saddened your mom can not see this and consequently can not work through it. Things like this are so very unfortunate.

I don't want to sound hard on your mom, but for me in working through things in my life I always remind myself no matter what one does in life, about half of the world will not like it or even hate you. It is just not possible to please everyone. I told myself I really have to please myself and my partner, we can not live our lives for other people.

It seems you have sort of come to the same conclusion. I had my first relationship in life destroyed by the catholic church, I am not forgiving of that and have had similar since then, so, I view religion with a grain of salt.

I'm really happy for your and your partner. Despite the ups and downs, things really are getting better!!!

[knowledgeispwr]

50. I also view religion with a grain of salt...

It wasn't being gay that led me to fall away from it, but it sure didn't help. I am not eager or itching to bring up religion with Mom because she obviously remains very religious and at this point I'm an atheist. She can't even handle me being gay. While she surely realizes I don't share her beliefs, I wouldn't be surprised if she just thought I was a liberal Christian. I can't imagine how she'd react if she knew I have given up faith altogether.

"We cannot live our lives for other people" <== So true!

Thing are getting better and I appreciate your message!

[lostnfound]

44. Maybe you should ask her "Who told you you didn't approve?"

Some preacher filled her head with the idea that it's like the most important thing in the religion, but where does it really come from?

Very good your dad sees things the right way and I hope one day your mom comes around too. I agree with the other person who suggested calling regularly to say you love her. Keep the communication open, for the day when hopefully she will wake up.

[knowledgeispwr]

49. "God" / "God's Word", "The Bible"...

those are the answers I would get I am almost certain.

[lostnfound]

54. "Focus on the parts that say to love one another and to be forgiving and humble."

Judge not lest ye be judged.

In the meantime, congratulations on the marriage, on finding a true love, and also on recognizing your need to separate your feelings about yourself from how your mother sees your relationship. Be happy and be patient and optimistic that one day she will come around.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. Congrats on your marriage!

Fun, huh? After almost 13 years, my husband and I got married last November when it became legal here in Oklahoma.

I am sorry for the issues with your mother. I am fortunate my parents and my three brothers are accepting, even my extended family is. My grandmother loves my husband and called him "one of the best people to ever come into your life." His family, despite living two hours away...well, they don't say anything and neither does he. Such is life. They have come to the house a few times, but...it is difficult to explain. It's a case of "don't ask, don't tell".

I hope you dinner goes well. Revel in your happiness and love, sometimes, when people see how normal we actually are, prejudices start to fall away. As difficult as this may be to hear, focus on those who love you unconditionally. You have done your job, it is up to your mother to make changes, not you. It doesn't make it any less painful, until you realize how many people already love you.

I wish you the best in this new chapter of your life!

[knowledgeispwr]

48. Thank you, it is fun!

And a belated congratulations to you for your marriage!

My husband's family is extremely accepting and have visited many times despite living 5-6 hours away.

A few years ago, when my then partner and I made more of an effort to go visit my parents, it was a similar situation to what you described with your husband's family. An odd sort of "don't ask, don't tell". At my dad engaged us. Mom almost always found an excuse to be busy with housework when we came over. I soon suspected that was to avoid spending time with us while we were over at her home.

I do try to focus on the positive. In many ways, I have many good things going on in my life and I am generally happy. Thanks for the well wishes!

[HassleCat]

51. Only so much you can do

You don't get to choose your parents. You're lucky your dad is supportive. Maybe your mom will come around some day.

[Smarmie Doofus]

52. Nearly passed you by ( After all, it's an "old story"in LGBT-dom.) but I'm really glad I read this...

... and gladder still that you WROTE it.

I don't know if we ever REALLY, *completely* get the little voice of the "crazy" parent out of our head. So don't expect miracles.

By all available evidence, you're a GREAT son w. a cool Dad. You've built a great life in spite of mom's struggle to get over herself.

Maybe she will; maybe she won't. You can't control everything or everybody. ( Nor SHOULD you.)

Keep on keepin' on. You're doing everything right, near as I can tell.

[knowledgeispwr]

55. Oh I don't expect miracles...

but I will definitely "keep on keepin' on".

Thanks for the read and commenting!

[awoke_in_2003]

57. I am sorry to hear this...

but maybe it is best out in the open. For now, you have your father, who sounds like a good guy. Maybe one day your mom will come around.

[Fearless]

60. I have a similar story so I can understand the frustration of it all.

[knowledgeispwr]

62. What is your situation like now, if you don't mind sharing?

Are you still at an impasse with some family?

[Fearless]

63. Whelp...

Backstory... I came out during college and everyone, everyone except for two people were very supportive and I've never ever had an issue otherwise. Unfortunately those two people are called mom and dad.

The problem is in my family, specifically the older generation (no offense to the older generations out there!), they tend to ignore things that they don't like or that they deem "problems". They feel if they pretend issues don't exist then they don't exist.

Very mature, I know.

It's also very frustrating. While I can have perfectly sane and rational conversations about dates or past relationships or what-have-you with my siblings/other relatives, they will have nothing of it. My father's side of the family has drunk straight from the tea party kool aid. There is actually a very funny (to me) incident several years ago where my father tried to "confront me" using "logic" about why LGBT people didn't need civil rights protections. It ended in me shouting "SODOMY" at the dinner table and him looking around petrified as if I had yelled it in a church on Easter, but I digress.

It basically came down to this impasse with them adversely affecting my relationship with my now ex (an ex for unrelated reasons). So I had to choose between being happy and making them happy. Obviously I have to live my life and that was the decision I made. I basically told them that I was going to live my life how I saw fit even if they disapprove. It wouldn't be in spite of them. If my life crosses with theirs in positive ways, so be it. I leave the door open for that. If it crosses in a negative way I consciously remove them from my life until they're civil again. I won't let their bigoted opinions of homosexuality or "the lifestyle" I "chose" determine my happiness.

As a result I'm happier. Granted it doesn't solve the problem. One day when I do get married and start a family, I have little doubt that this will rear up again. Basically I've punted it down the field for a bit and I fully recognize that. I've given them time to decide if they want to be part of my life fully or not at all. And yes, it's quite frustrating. But you can't force people to come around and see things your way. I'm giving them time because I hope that they will come around. But at the same time, I'm not building my life around that possibility. When the time comes and the decision has to be made one way or another, I want to know that I've given them every opportunity I can to accept me for who I am, so that if I do have to remove them from my life permanently, I won't regret it.

[knowledgeispwr]

65. Thanks for sharing.

I definitely identify with the decision of living one's own life and not what others would hope your life would be.

Best of luck.

[Fearless]

66. Happy to.

For all people when growing up, there is movement away from one's parents. For some of us it's just a bit further.

[pinto]

64. I'm so sorry it came down this way. Stay well, stay yourself.

Here's to you and your husband.