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Fri Jun 23, 2017, 12:04 PM

James Martin, S.J.: We need to build a bridge between LGBT community and the Catholic Church.

As you know, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Catholics are called to treat the homosexual person with “respect, compassion and sensitivity” (No. 2358).

What might that mean? Let’s meditate on that, and on a second question as well: What might it mean for the L.G.B.T. community to treat the church with “respect, sensitivity and compassion”? Of course, L.G.B.T. Catholics are part of the church, so, in a sense, those questions imply a false dichotomy. The church is the entire people of God, and it is strange to discuss how the people of God can relate to a part of the people of God. So, in good Jesuit fashion, let me refine our terms. When I refer to the church in this discussion I mean the institutional church—that is, the Vatican, the hierarchy, church officials and the clergy.

Let us take a walk on the first lane of the bridge, the one leading from the institutional church to the L.G.B.T. community, and reflect on “respect, compassion and sensitivity.”


https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2016/10/30/james-martin-sj-we-need-build-bridge-between-lgbt-community-and-catholic-church

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Reply James Martin, S.J.: We need to build a bridge between LGBT community and the Catholic Church. (Original post)
UrbScotty Jun 2017 OP
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #1
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #3
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #5
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #6
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #7
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #8
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #9
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #10
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #11
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #12
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #13
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #14
uriel1972 Jun 2017 #15
UrbScotty Jul 2017 #16
uriel1972 Jul 2017 #17
UrbScotty Jul 2017 #18
uriel1972 Jul 2017 #19
lunasun Jun 2017 #2
UrbScotty Jun 2017 #4

Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Sat Jun 24, 2017, 11:13 AM

1. Um...

When they stop saying I'm possessed by demons, unnatural, a bigger threat than nuclear war and so on.. I will consider it.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 24, 2017, 09:09 PM

3. I've been out for who-knows-how-long and I still haven't heard that one.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 26, 2017, 05:21 AM

5. As for the last one...

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 29, 2017, 09:20 PM

6. More than two years old is latest? LOL

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 05:44 AM

7. Hmmm perhaps not...

but you had some catching up to do it seems, if you hadn't heard that one

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:07 AM

8. Those who write off the Catholic Church as anti-LGBT seem to have some catching up to do!

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 05:12 PM

9. Erm...

it's current Pope said whilst a cardinal that same-sex marriage was a plot by Satan... When and only when (or perhaps if and only if) it stops treating LGBTQI people as abnormal and unworthy of respect will I treat the institution with respect.

When it stops organising and/or funding campaigns against same-sex marriage, transgender people and other sexual minorities, then I will consider respect.

Oh the RCC grudgingly allows gay people in it's church, I acknowledge, but and it's a big but, because they can't marry their loved ones they can't have a sexual relationship without committing sin and I believe their are consequences for that in the ideology of the RCC.

It has hurt a great many people in the past over this, it does now and by the looks will well into the future. A big demonstration of institutional change on it's behalf is necessary to demonstrate the goodwill needed to build a relationship bridge.

Note I am well aware that individual and groups of RCC members are not anti-LGBTQI, but the doctrines of the RCC are.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 06:15 PM

10. Which is kind of the point of Fr. Martin's book. Both the Church AND the LGBT community

need to actually try to have a dialogue.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 07:16 PM

11. In order for there to be a dialogue...

both sides need to be willing to talk. I am more than willing to talk, but the other side seems far to busy 'putting the boot in'.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 08:47 PM

12. Have you tried talking to anyone?

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 09:03 PM

13. No...

I'm too busy trying to avoid being kicked in the head.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 09:32 PM

14. Thanks for proving my point. Have a great weekend!

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:12 PM

15. Sorry,

Your possession of rose colored glasses doesn't obviate the need for me to protect myself...

You want to talk to people who would quite happily spend eternity watching you being tortured in Hell and perhaps help you on your way there then knock yourself out.

I will wait for some sign that they are willing to act in good faith before I expose myself to possible harm. I call that sensible, evidence based policy.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 08:32 AM

16. You've proved your unwillingness to talk to anyone about it

...but you're more than willing to make broad-brush statements about one of America's (and the world's) predominant religions.

Don't do what you accuse others of doing. Minds work best when open.

Nonetheless, thanks for kicking my message and keeping it at the top of the LGBT forum!

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 11:32 AM

17. Uh no...

I've made personal safety a condition of any talks... You know a flag of truce...

On the other issue of broad brush statements, I have known many Catholics and considered them good friends and good people, it is the INSTITUTION that I do not trust.

Would you say that you trust the Republican Party to engage in an open and honest dialogue? I know good people who vote conservative as well, that doesn't make the INSTITUTION trustworthy.

Open minds yes... but personal safety is the first issue... Not everyone lives in an open and supportive environment with family and friends you can rely on. I am not so fortunate to have that privilege.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 12:36 PM

18. If they don't harm me - and they haven't - they won't harm you.

And my orientation is not exactly a state secret.

Other than being a white male, I'm hardly privileged. I don't have much money. I'm young. I'm not exactly outgoing.

But I'm still here.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 01:31 PM

19. Okay... be our ambassador then...

I set out my condition for a fruitful dialogue, which was a ceasefire. A not unreasonable request for peace talks.I also said some members of the RCC do not have our best interests at heart. Not really controversial, otherwise why do we need this dialogue.

You decided from those positions that I am anti-Catholic and Close-Minded. How do you expect to have dialogue with someone if you don't listen to what they say and try to empathize with their position.

As for the last message title... well I don't know what to say. So I wont say anything, apart from I am dropping out of this lack of discussion.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Sat Jun 24, 2017, 08:23 PM

2. One explained to me it s like how they welcome the struggling alcoholic

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Response to lunasun (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 24, 2017, 09:10 PM

4. "Paprocki gonna Paprocki," as they say.

Lots of us would welcome you here in Michigan, though.

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