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FreeState

(10,613 posts)
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 08:16 PM Mar 2022

I'm curious how the LGBT members feel about the state of DU

I’ve been here since the beginning and for me the more things change the more they stay the same. How about you? Any thoughts on how we can enable effective change among our fellow democrats?

If you are an ally it would be interesting to see what you think we could do as well.


22 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
DU is a safe haven - I always feel heard and supported
1 (5%)
DU is somewhat safe and the admin does the best they can
8 (36%)
DU let's bias through - that's the nature of chat boards
3 (14%)
DU plays lip service and does the minimum in order to quell complaints from LGBT members
1 (5%)
DU does no real effort to make LGBT posters feel welcome and safe
4 (18%)
Other
0 (0%)
I'm a straight ally here to learn and listen
5 (23%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I'm curious how the LGBT members feel about the state of DU (Original Post) FreeState Mar 2022 OP
Some people are looking to cause division. Doodley Mar 2022 #1
How do we combat that? FreeState Mar 2022 #2
IMHO over 95% of the DU has a lot of love for the LGBT community. Best thing is to ignore trolls. Doodley Mar 2022 #5
Honestly? vercetti2021 Mar 2022 #3
I totally know how you feel FreeState Mar 2022 #6
Most are older members vercetti2021 Mar 2022 #8
Some days, I don't know if it can be done without a "backfire effect" IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #13
WTF is this? n/t gay texan Mar 2022 #4
Not sure what your asking FreeState Mar 2022 #7
I came to this website gay texan Mar 2022 #9
I don't know. I genuinely don't know. IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #10
I don't believe we truly matter here vercetti2021 Mar 2022 #11
We clearly matter to at least some... IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #12
I so want to give you a long hug lambchopp59 Mar 2022 #14
I want to hug you, all of the LGBTQ community, and all of our allies IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #17
I don't post on DU often anymore LostOne4Ever Mar 2022 #15
True on that IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #16
9 days after the thread/poll, and a week after my last reply... IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #18
After the wonderful week here... IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #19
Just yesterday: kochsucker Duncan Grant Mar 2022 #20
I saw that too and thought, "what's the point?" Behind the Aegis Mar 2022 #21
I took several days off after the "fun" last week... IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #22
Yet another weekly reply... IngridsLittleAngel Mar 2022 #23
I just changed mine too - DU is doing nothing FreeState Apr 2022 #24
I don't blame you IngridsLittleAngel Apr 2022 #25
Bumping because... IngridsLittleAngel Apr 2022 #26

FreeState

(10,613 posts)
2. How do we combat that?
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 08:32 PM
Mar 2022

When we see a poster trying to cause devision what are some effective things LGBT can do outside of the current tools DU gives?

vercetti2021

(10,167 posts)
3. Honestly?
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 08:39 PM
Mar 2022

I don't think most members care about us. We are a small fraction here. Especially transgender members

FreeState

(10,613 posts)
6. I totally know how you feel
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 08:49 PM
Mar 2022

Part of that is being a small minority. There are definitely supportive people here but often it feels like our issues are embraced only when it fits their needs. How do we effectively let others know we’re feeling that way with out creating a backfire effect? I know when I’ve pointed it out to some posters they entrench deeper into their belief without listening.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
13. Some days, I don't know if it can be done without a "backfire effect"
Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:40 AM
Mar 2022

There are some of the more frequent offenders that I don't think will change. Ever. Their minds are made up. At the very least, they feel we're less important than they are, and "since there are less of you," it's okay to sacrifice our rights for their sake. At the worst, they hate us just as much as the GOP does. Some of them barely hide their contempt for the trans community in their posts. Some don't even hide it at all.

As I posted more than once in response to the Lia Thomas shitstorm: Bigotry is the "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." Doesn't matter if it's "We don't hate you, but, there's less of you and we're more important," or if it is indeed flat-out "We hate you." Using us as a pawn in their chess game or saying we have to go without so they can have theirs is still a form of bigotry.

You're absolutely right some of them will not listen. I saw it first-hand, attempting to speak up with first-hand experience of what it's like being a trans woman and facing institutionalized and organized bigotry. According to them, I was "talking down on them from a position of privilege." Right. If my life is one of privilege, I'd sure hate to see a life of being oppressed.

I don't know if much can be done beyond making it clear we won't be thrown under the bus, we won't be sacrificed for their sake, and we're not going to be bullied anymore. Even that might create a backfire effect, but... I don't know what else to say. Staying the course and maintaining the status quo is why transphobia and TERF shit became entrenched here in the first place for small but loud segment here. Sitting back and doing nothing will do nothing to improve things, and might make it worse. I think if the pushback had started a decade ago, even five years ago, things might be different than they are today. Too much shit went unopposed, and as a result, there are those who feel they can talk of us like we're not in the room and there's not a thing we can do to stop them.

The ones that hate us? I don't think there's a thing we can do to make them stop hating us. Maybe one day they'll open their eyes. Maybe not. But the bullying and bigotry and punching down has to stop, and I don't think it'll stop if it's allowed to go on unopposed.

I wish I had a better answer. I don't, sadly.

FreeState

(10,613 posts)
7. Not sure what your asking
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 08:52 PM
Mar 2022

I’ve been on DU since the beginning and the LGBT community here has a long history here - some of it positive and some of it not. There was a time when there were hidden boards for LGBT members of DU to discuss how we were feeling because it wasn’t safe discussing it here. Those days are long gone fortunately. My point with the post was to see how people are feeling and if there is anything else we could do to see our goals and efforts as a community succeed.

gay texan

(2,539 posts)
9. I came to this website
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 09:44 PM
Mar 2022

because i felt safe here. I was just out of the closet so late in life, scared, unsure of who the hell i was, and welcomed with open arms. Not once on this site have i ever been degraded, talked down to, or discriminated against. This place has been a safe haven for me.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
10. I don't know. I genuinely don't know.
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 09:47 PM
Mar 2022

I voted "Other", but, in truth, my answer would have to fall below "somewhat safe," but I can't say as bad as "lip service." As one of the biggest and loudest loudmouths over the last half year or so (since the Dave Chappelle shitshow), I do honestly believe there has been some progress - especially when it comes to DU and transphobia. However, there is still a long way to go, honestly.

I do feel there is an effort on behalf of the administrators to listen and understand what is going on - such as EarlG's post from last fall (which should've been pinned, honestly). I know a couple of the more blatant transphobes are now PPR'd, which was honestly long overdue. While I'm glad they're gone, I wish they had been gone sooner.

I have to admit to not having seen a single "Lady G" or other homophobic/transphobic remark at Lindsey Graham over the last several months, so.. There is that in the way of progress? It used to be you could count on a "Lady G" wisecrack 75% of the time Graham was mentioned here. Now it's a lot closer to 0% - maybe indeed 0%.

On the flip side of things, though: Juries still let way too much go on when it comes to transphobia. We're told to alert on posts that go against the TOS, and transphobia is listed in the TOS. And yet.. Far too often, nothing gets done. I've even gotten 24 hour alert blocks because the jury voted 0-7 on blatant bigotry.

About the only suggestion I have there? Well, we have check off that we agree to the terms of service when we sign up. How about the same to even be allowed to serve on a jury? That you need to check off that you have read what posts are against the rules and should be removed?

In the past, we had far too much "debate" over teens and hormones, which has surprisingly and pleasantly been missing with all the recent posts about what's going on in Texas. I will admit to opening those threads feeling dread of seeing "They're too young to be on hormones," "science," blah blah blah. Nope. Nothing. Just a lot of people expressing their rage at Abbott and Paxton and their cruelty.

However, there's still been way too much tolerated in the name of "debate" when it comes to trans athletes in sports. We saw how ugly some of the Lia Thomas threads were earlier this year. And, honestly, I can tell you some of them left me feeling very much ganged up on when I dared to speak out against what I, as a trans woman, truly felt was bigotry and discrimination.

I do think things are better now than six months ago. But then, we saw how bad a lot of the Chappelle threads got. I won't lie, and my own posting history shows that, yes, that was the point I reached my breaking point with all of it and made noise. A lot of noise. It was something that needed to be done. The discussions over Chappelle went well beyond "It's just comedy. Lighten up." and was used by a lot of people to blatantly attack the trans community, post the kind of "two genders" and "genetics" shit that would make Traitor Greene happy, you name it. I do honestly believe many of those replies made then would not be tolerated today. So... Progress?

Yet, a lot still can and needs to be done. LGBTQ's members shouldn't feel the need to defend themselves in a "debate" about their own life and rights and existence. We have to do that every day already with the GOP. Why here too? Not to mention, well, some of these people "discussing the issues" are blatant transphobes. They have been for years. The "fight over women's sports" is just the latest issue they use to go after the trans community. Before that, it was hormones. Before that, restrooms. When they get the next chance to pounce, they will. And it's long overdue for the line to be drawn with them. Because I do fear we're going to be called out and blamed a lot as we get closer to November, because we know there are members ready to blame us if the midterms don't go as they want.

Trans rights are human rights. Trans people are humans. This is something everyone needs to be on-board with. It's what the Democratic party stands for, and I don't know how anyone can see themselves as a Democrat and think otherwise. That's sick-ass GOP shit right there.

About the only other thing I can suggest in general? Keep on pushing back. Strength in numbers. If people get called out more often for bigotry, maybe it'll open a few eyes and/or make people less likely to post that kind of shit.

So, long post made short: We're better now than we were six months ago, but, not as great as we can be. I do hope, six months from now, someone (maybe you?) poses this very same question and we can say "We're better now than we were in March."

Sorry for the lengthy post, but... As one of the biggest loudmouths and one of the most active in pushing back, I definitely felt I needed to add my two cents... or three... or six...

vercetti2021

(10,167 posts)
11. I don't believe we truly matter here
Sun Mar 6, 2022, 12:08 AM
Mar 2022

We aren't the same as LGB. We are the other that is always the most controversial. I see a lot of transphobia regarding past threads when it comes to trans athletes or comedians like Dave Chappelle. I do believe we don't matter

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
12. We clearly matter to at least some...
Sun Mar 6, 2022, 12:46 AM
Mar 2022

There are a lot of people here speaking out for us, and who have our backs on these issues. And I can only speak for myself by honestly thanking all of you for being you and for what you do for us.

The problem is it seems like the ones we don't matter to are quite loud and in our faces about it. Which is how it used to be with the LGB community as well. But now, it seems like the DU'ers that don't fully accept the LGB community keep quiet about it, where the transphobes and TERF's don't hesitate to express their contempt for us. And, as I said, those who want to keep calling out the trans community need to be dealt with. "But my sports!" and "My comedy special!" and "My restrooms!" cannot and should not be used as an excuse to target an entire community.

We've made a few steps, but, there's a lot more to take. Because as long as any part of this community feels unsafe and unwelcome, it's not fully safe and welcoming. So, we gotta keep raising our voices and speaking up and even pushing back when needed.

lambchopp59

(2,809 posts)
14. I so want to give you a long hug
Mon Mar 7, 2022, 02:22 PM
Mar 2022

Both of us cry out the hurts, soothe those frayed nerves, and then have convulsive laughter like we do when we're in our safe places.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
17. I want to hug you, all of the LGBTQ community, and all of our allies
Tue Mar 8, 2022, 05:42 AM
Mar 2022

Not only so we can all comfort each other, but to say thank you to those who are fighting alongside us.

These are indeed very hurtful and infuriating and scary times.

LostOne4Ever

(9,329 posts)
15. I don't post on DU often anymore
Tue Mar 8, 2022, 01:40 AM
Mar 2022

But when I did I was a good “egg” who fought for trans rights tooth and nail.

I still fume at some of the stuff I saw back around 2016. That said, I also see stuff posted outside of DU that makes me feel ill. Which is why I chose the “DU tries” option.

It just feels like everything is backsliding and I will take any sanctuary in the storm I can get.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
16. True on that
Tue Mar 8, 2022, 05:20 AM
Mar 2022

Things were definitely far, far worse in 2016 than they are here in 2022. No dispute there.

I absolutely get you on how toxic a lot of the internet can be for the trans community. Recent example: I am a regular viewer of Steve Lehto's channel on YouTube. I was one of the people who sent him the story about the trans woman who got $1.5 million after being arrested for "jaywalking", then held for months because they wanted to claim the sand in her stress ball were drugs. Steve himself handled it with absolutely class - called her "she" and "her", used her chosen name even though the article also contained her former name, you name it.

I even sent him a follow-up email, thanking him not only for covering the story, but doing so with class and kindness and respect.

Some of the comments, though... Not so much. The usual "man in a dress", misgendering, etc. nonsense. I reported the ones I saw, but, let's not kid ourselves. YouTube doesn't have a good track record on removing bigoted comments or material.

In some of my darker days, I feel the same way. Everything's backsliding. The reason I don't feel that way all the time? People like you and others on this thread, who have our backs and are fighting by our side and pushing back against the QOP's increasingly evil and fascist bullshit. I know if they get their way, we'll backslide - all the way back to 1888, or 1850, or 1760, or even backslide the entire LGBTQ community out of existence. So, yes, it's easy to feel negative when Abbott and DeSantis won't stop punching down on us, and punching down on the most vulnerable of them all. And, yes, easy to feel negative with an awful lot of people feel perfectly safe and comfortable spewing hatred and bigotry toward the trans community online.

But unlike 1990, or 2000, or even 2016, now there are a lot of people fighting back and saying "FUCK NO" to the fascists. Thank goodness, and thank you to each and every one of you.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
18. 9 days after the thread/poll, and a week after my last reply...
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 02:00 PM
Mar 2022

I feel less optimistic than I did when I initially posted and offered my six cents.

There was a reply made to me yesterday morning, where the poster felt they had the right to say "DNA decides our gender" and "it's not wise to fool with Mother Nature." Alerted on twice - once to a jury, which saw nothing wrong with it, the second time directly to the admins. As of the time I'm writing this reply, it's still there.

I would like to point out to anyone with the staff here at DU: This is why I voted "other" and have had moments of wanting to vote "lip service." This is why 3 people (and I bet they're not the only 3 on DU) voted "no real effort." Even at the time I voted and posted to this thread, I never questioned their feelings, and thought "Even one person feeling that way is wrong, and a sign there is work to be done here." Now after seeing a post remain up that directly violates the TOS on transphobia (and with me being trans, could also be seen as a personal attack), as well as directly go against the "To the handful of DUers" post from last fall, I feel a bit worse about things here than I did a week ago.

I don't know yet if I would go as far as changing my vote to "no real effort," but I'm bothered by the whole thing. I'm bothered by the post. I'm bothered posts like that are allowed to stand here. I'm bothered that we have RL shit we have to deal with and endure as it is, only to come here and encounter more. I'm bothered at knowing people here feel unwelcome and unaccepted - and that includes me at times - during a time when the GOP has declared open war on this community.

To any juror who saw that post and voted it's fine: No. It's not. It's bigotry. You blew it.

To the staff and admins here: If you haven't seen this thread yet, maybe you should. There is a reason some of us feel the way we do, and we're cautious at best, and downright upset at the worst.

We're not here to hear "two genders" and "genetics" or be judged or treated as less-than-human. Last October was a good start. It was not a finish, and judging by the lack of action taken against a bigoted post, it means there's still a lot that needs to be done.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
19. After the wonderful week here...
Fri Mar 18, 2022, 05:12 AM
Mar 2022

No. I guess I'm back to not exactly feeling safe here.

Arguing over whether a woman can or can't do something? Misogyny.

Arguing whether a person of color should or shouldn't be allowed to do something? Racism.

Arguing over whether trans people should have this or that, or using right-wing talking points? Just a nice healthy debate...

Duncan Grant

(8,316 posts)
20. Just yesterday: kochsucker
Fri Mar 18, 2022, 03:19 PM
Mar 2022

Speaking for myself:

1. Use the “full ignore” button generously.
2. Don’t accommodate your own oppression.
3. Don’t enable anyone else’s oppression.
4. You can’t make someone wrong when they already are.
5. Sometimes this place doesn’t deserve your time or attention. F*** it.
6. Adhere to community standards and the terms of service.
7. Recommend all LGBTQI+ themed threads in GD when you’re here.
8. Always remember: One can’t buy donuts at the hardware store.

(Dear trans DUers, your participation here should be safe, affirming, encouraged and celebrated. Please PM me anytime you see trans abuse here.)

As for kochsucking…I don’t have time for this original and oh so clever word play today. Invoking guideline #5.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
22. I took several days off after the "fun" last week...
Thu Mar 24, 2022, 03:01 AM
Mar 2022

Last week was not one of the better weeks, for sure. Between the latest Lia Thomas circular firing squad/gang up, "not nice to fool Mother Nature" and "kochsucker", my stress level and mental health were not in a good place... So, I invoked guideline #5 myself. I've avoided everything outside of PM's, and reading and rec'ing a few select threads - though, I had to bite my tongue from shooting off my mouth over a reply in one of them.

You're right that our participation here should be safe, affirming, encouraged and celebrated. The same goes for LGB's, for the Jewish, for people of color, for everyone. But you know what? It's not. Some people never want it to be safe for those outside of those they accept. Others are doing the usual gearing up to find scapegoats with an election looming, and sadly cannot tell the difference between "culture wars" and outright bigotry (trying to stop 13 year olds from buying Grand Theft Auto V is a culture war... trying to deny trans people protected human rights is bigotry.) Some of us are left feeling things won't change without involvement from the admins, honestly. Attempting to speak up gets us ganged up on, spoken to like we're 3 (or our IQ is 3), and that we have no right to speak up here.

I do at least thank you for speaking up, and I'll keep that in mind to PM you should I see anything like the kind of crap we had here last week.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
23. Yet another weekly reply...
Sun Mar 27, 2022, 04:31 PM
Mar 2022

You know, Steve Hofstetter in the 90's used to run a website called Sports Jerk of the Week, complete with issuing Jerk Points to athletes who did jerk things. Why do I bring it up? For years, he gave Bud Selig 1 Jerk Point every week that he called himself "acting commissioner" of Major League Baseball. So now I sit here thinking "Gee.. Am I gonna wind up replying to this thread weekly with some of the shit that's allowed here?"

Lia Thomas is now being used to bludgeon the trans community on everything - as I feared when we allowed so much to go on in the name of "discussion" and "learning". Nevermind the fact that if Lia Thomas never existed, we'd still see what's going on in the red states. Hell, the QOP would've invented a Lia Thomas to push this shit - like Drumpf invented Revolutionary War Airports and Kellyanne Conway invented the Bowling Green Massacre.

I just alerted on a reply (that shame on me for missing) where a TERF called Lia Thomas "the essence of male privilege." If I have to explain what the hell is wrong with that reply... Fuck it. I could carry on a better conversation with the dolls on my desk.

The usual fingers-in-the-ears, lalalala I can't hear you from the usual suspects in the Rowling vs. Putin thread. Because, no, the enemy of our enemy is not our friend - especially when they're as bigoted and transphobic as Rowling is.

At this point, I'm doing little outside of LGBT or PM's besides rec'ing threads about LGBTQ issues, and occasional alerts... Unless you want to count a few loud replies the other night after too many drinks. If anything, it seems the transphobia is getting louder here, and I will say the same thing I did last week:

No. I don't feel safe here. I doubt I'm alone. And I see it getting worse the closer we get to November.

FreeState

(10,613 posts)
24. I just changed mine too - DU is doing nothing
Sun Apr 10, 2022, 04:10 PM
Apr 2022

I don’t even get replies to questions I send to admin.

Why is it we allow homophobic images on DU? They constantly get posted and stand on alerts even though admin has promised us they aren’t allowed. You can’t even alert on them for 24 hours. The jury system makes LGBT members not feel welcome or heard here.

If your a straight ally please speak up about this because it’s obvious to me that DU really doesn’t care what we as LGBT members think anymore.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
25. I don't blame you
Sun Apr 10, 2022, 08:08 PM
Apr 2022

It's feeling like we are taking steps backwards of late... I've seen more than a few homophobic photoshopped Drumpf and Putin images lately that have been allowed to stand... And that is of course before we start dealing with the "Looking out for your rights is a losing strategy" and "Lia Thomas is Satan" crowd.

The jury system does not work, at least not when it comes to bigotry. Way too much stuff that discriminates against LGBTQ's has been allowed to stand - especially of late. And worse, as you said: Alert and it gets voted down 0-7? You can't alert for 24 hours. I get that they did that to prevent "alert abuse"... But what the hell are we supposed to do when the jury blows it?

Like you, I rarely get replies from the admins either. Occasionally, but, not often enough.

Something needs to change here, that's for sure.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
26. Bumping because...
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 12:48 PM
Apr 2022

They say "it gets better", but as we've seen recently... it hasn't gotten better here.

(I'm still around, just insanely busy on a project with a deadline. But trust me, I'm reading and bookmarking various threads...)

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