Latest insanity I heard from a "Men's Rights" dude...feminists are to blame for conscription and war

[Ken Burch]

This was at the New Statesman(left-of-center UK newsmagazine...the Brit equivalent of The Nation) website...in a discussion of an essay about whether feminism should be taught in schools. And this idiot was insisting that the suffragist movement in the UK in World War One were responsible for the introduction of conscription there(he based this on a propaganda poster the War Ministry there put that implied that "women" in the UK wanted all the men to sign up(never mind that the poster was created, in all liklihood, by a male design team).

He also claimed that the suffragists had done a "white flower" campaign designed to shame teenager boys into joining the army, and that suffragists had somehow actually caused the imposition of conscription(some of the suffragists may have been pro-war, but it's not as if the all-male governments of Britain, the US, France, Russia(and, on the other side, Germany and Austria-Hungary) had nothing do with the decisions that led to 10 million combat deaths between 1914 and 1918).

He then went on to insist that women, to this day, were responsible for combat units in wars being all-male(until recently)and refused to accept that feminists were fighting for the right of women to serve on the front lines.

And, for some reason, this schmuck couldn't believe that any women had ever OPPOSED wars or conscription(Cue Rosa Luxemburg, Emma Goldman, Coretta Scott King, Bella Abzug and Joan Baez, as well as all members of Code Pink,Women's Strike For Peace, and The Women's International League for Peace and Freedom doing a collective "spit-take&quot .

Expect to see this line come up in the next round of "Manhood 101" posters, or from MRM trolls in discussion forums.

Just thought you all should be warned that this was coming, if you hadn't run across it yet.

[Skittles]

1. don't pay any attention to those juvenile creeps

corner them and you'll find it was one women in particular that made them detest women in general.....they have serious issues and it is best to ignore them

[pipoman]

2. That is really good advice and statement

pertaining to all gender biggots.

[Feral Child]

3. K&R n/t

[Prophet 451]

4. Whuh?

The white flower/feather campaign had little to do with the sufferagettes. While there was some crossover at an individual level (i.e. some sufferagettes were also handing out white flowers/feathers), there was never any kind of coordinated action.

[Ken Burch]

6. It didn't sound right to me, either.

Thanks.

[shaayecanaan]

11. The woman who founded the Order of the White Feather...

was actually an anti-suffragist, Mary Ward:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Augusta_Ward

Having said that, the leadership of the main suffragist association, the WSPU (Christabel and Emmeline Pankhurst) were major drivers behind the White Feathers movement, and played a large role in its popularisation. Partially this was due to the fact that the WSPU agreed to cease militant action during World War I in order to further the war effort. They needed something sufficiently engaging to keep their followers occupied in the meantime. Handing white feathers to men in the street seemed to fit the bill.

The white feathers movement was extremely effective at persuading men to volunteer. Many youths who were not even of fighting age were handed feathers anyway and turned up at the recruiting station in tears, even lying about their age in order to get sent to the front. There was also some speculation at the time that suffragists encouraged young women to give their menfolk white feathers if they wanted to get rid of them.

It was not uncommon for men to react violently to being given white feathers. Particularly this was so if they happened to be veterans that had been discharged home or that were home temporarily on leave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmeline_Pankhurst#First_World_War

[Ken Burch]

12. The way that sort of suffragist worked is the way Lyndon Johnson expected the civil rights movement

to "play ball" with him on Vietnam.

[shaayecanaan]

13. well, its complicated

there was certainly a socialist, Jacobin tendency within the suffragists, but predominantly it tended to be quite conservative. There was a strong link between suffragists and the temperance movement, for example.

When women did obtain the franchise it was quite a setback for the left initially with even working class women feeling much less affinity for the trade union movement and working class politics than men. But this has reversed since 1980 or so as left of Centre parties have abandoned their working class base.

[HubertHeaver]

5. Complete and utter balderdash.

[Gormy Cuss]

7. I'm sorry but there's no reasoning with the willfully ignorant

and that person sounds like he fits the bill.

I know that in the U.S. the second wavers were against conscription for ANYONE, but if someone had to go to war, gender shouldn't be the primary qualification.

[Lunacee_2013]

8. Umm, aren't men the ones who started most of the wars in history?

I'm sure we women have started a few ourselves, but for the most part I think the guys have waged most of them. And how can we be blamed for not fighting when we were not allowed to? And isn't it part of the "bro-code" to not be a p*ssy and fight? How the fuck is this our fault?

What about all that crazy ranting about how women who join the armed forces should just accept that rape happens in the military and to STFU? Why the hell would a woman want to be part of something that might get her raped? Remember the women in Afghanistan who refused to drink at night because they were afraid of going to the bathrooms because other female troops had been assaulted? Why are MRAs so damn stupid? Why do they even exist? What's the point?

[Ken Burch]

9. Yeah...we dudes pretty much do have the franchise on wars, n/t.

[thucythucy]

10. You'll find the "white feather" tale used on DU

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/111411724

It amazes me (as you'll see in my response to this comment) that of all the contributing factors, and actors, responsible for World War I--including the various militaries (all run by men), and the political leaders (all men)--this person singles out the "white feather" campaign as a huge part of the problem.

I wondered where on earth that bizarre factoid came from--now I know it's a "men's rights" meme.

Thanks for the info.

Edited to add: the discussion on "the white feather" begins with post 20.

You'll find another men's rights talking point in this same thread (and others)--the fact that men are now being "oppressed" because they're outnumbered by women on college campuses.

Oy.