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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Thu Jun 7, 2012, 06:47 PM Jun 2012

It's not feminism that hurts men

It's not feminism that hurts men

Jo T examines a recent article supporting claims that men are "the new second sex" and finds it to be a highly misleading piece that fails to consider the role of patriarchal structures in men's suffering and instead opts to blame feminism

Jo T, 21 May 2012

There's no denying that men are oppressed by certain cultural norms. These tell them that they shouldn't openly express their feelings, that there is only a very limited way to perform masculinity in an 'acceptable' way and that disagreeing with dominant tropes about what is and isn't 'manly' can lead to very unpleasant consequences. I read No, Seriously, What About Teh Menz and agree with a great deal of what is said there, about men, 'manliness' and the problems unique to men in a patriarchy. I also find Tony Porter's TEDWomen speech (I put the youtube below) on the pernicious and damaging "man box" to be moving, and accurate, and highly pertinent.
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Tony Porter: A call to men

However, as the section of the men's rights movement which hates women gains ground in online spaces, the recent Observer article by Elizabeth Day on the subject not only seems disingenuous but also potentially dangerous. Indeed, it all but concedes the vast majority of the anti-feminist talking points pushed by men's rights activists (MRAs). Before I begin, I should point out that Melissa at Shakesville has done a superb job of explaining many of the article's problematic aspects, not least that "it ain't women who are the primary gatekeepers of that bullshit [i.e. patriarchy]. It's other men."

Society teaches boys that to be masculine is to be self-contained, to be in control of one's emotions

The headline and standfirst of the article are bad enough: if women and girls were merely "lagging at school" and "the butt of cruel jokes", rather than victims of systemic violence and inequality, we'd count ourselves damn lucky. The piece then begins by setting out the usual tedious MRA talking points about the "supar sekrit!" oppression of men, using arguments promulgated by Professor David Benatar and men's rights author Warren Farrell. This is followed by a paragraph giving half a dozen examples of the oppression men supposedly face. In my opinion, these mislead the readers by omitting various highly relevant pieces of information and context. To highlight a few:

"...men are more likely to be conscripted into military service..."

... (rebuttal)

"...men are more likely to lose custody of their children in the event of a divorce..."

... (rebuttal)

"...Boys lag a year behind girls at reading in every industrialised country."

... (rebuttal)

"Men work longer hours, too..."

... (rebuttal)

"...men develop heart disease 10 years earlier than women, on average.."

... (rebuttal)

"...young men are three times more likely to commit suicide."

... (rebuttal)


Benatar says this state of affairs for men is "a neglected form of sexism." But who is perpetrating this "sexism"? Who punishes men for transgressing the boundaries of the "man box"? In many cases, it is other men.

...

In the end, Day's article is fatally flawed because it does not put forward a remotely believable explanation for the difficulties faced by some men under patriarchy. The only people who mention the p-word in the article are Walter and Bindel. "Facts" about the "second sexism" are brought up with no explanation, no context and no discussion. Sadly, the article will doubtless be used by MRAs as "proof" that their thin arguments are actually valid, when all the problems facing men which the article lists are offshoots of patriarchy - unintended consequences of a system which causes disproportionate harm to women and girls. Talk about missing the point.

http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2012/05/its_not_feminism_that_hurts_men



"I come to also look at this as this fear that we have as men, this fear that just has us paralyzed, holding us hostage to this man box. I can remember speaking to a 12-year-old boy, a football player, and I asked him, I said, "How would you feel if, in front of all the players, your coach told you you were playing like a girl?" Now I expected him to say something like, I'd be sad; I'd be mad; I'd be angry, or something like that. No, the boy said to me -- the boy said to me, "It would destroy me." And I said to myself, "God, if it would destroy him to be called a girl, what are we then teaching him about girls?""

...

I remember asking a nine-year-old boy, I asked a nine-year-old boy, "What would life be like for you, if you didn't have to adhere to this man box?" He said to me, "I would be free."

Thank you folks.- Tony Porter
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It's not feminism that hurts men (Original Post) Catherina Jun 2012 OP
K&R nt JoeyT Jun 2012 #1
while that is true, feminism does take away the historically higher status of men La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #2
Very true. I'm encouraged groups like Call to Men are taking responsibility to help change things Catherina Jun 2012 #3
This is really encouraging. Zorra Jun 2012 #4
I was encouraged to see them talking about homophobia too Catherina Jun 2012 #5
 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
2. while that is true, feminism does take away the historically higher status of men
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 11:50 AM
Jun 2012

in society and that's why we see such push back to feminism & the rise of MRA's

There is no higher status group that enjoys losing status. There are members in the group that support egalitarianism but generally none of us like to lose status


Catherina

(35,568 posts)
3. Very true. I'm encouraged groups like Call to Men are taking responsibility to help change things
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 10:49 PM
Jun 2012

smoother for people who feel their losing their status. I think there's a very important thing the 2nd wave did that's never mentioned as an accomplishment and that was how they raised their sons, who in turn are raising their own sons jointly with the stronger daughters of the 60s and 70s activists.

I'm trying to find out more about that group Call To Men. To me, their approach seems very effective.

You Can Make A Difference - Men Raising Our Voices


This is a ground breaking collaboration between the Verizon Foundation, A CALL TO MEN, James Brown - Host of NFL Today and the Joyful Heart Foundation. You Can make A Difference in preventing violence against women.


A CALL TO MEN - National Conference 2009


This event was an unprecedented gathering of men and women coming together for the purpose of increasing our knowledge while strategizing and organizing to end violence against women in our communities. We are excited and honored to have you join us in this collective effort to Stand Up and Speak Out to end domestic violence, sexual violence and all forms of violence and discrimination against women and girls. www.acalltomen.org


Interview w/ Tony Porter, Founder of A Call to Men - Ending Violence Against Women


Courage Network interviews Tony Porter, Founder of A Call to Men. Tony discusses why men are a key part of ending domestic violence and sexual assault. He discusses responsibility, changing attitudes and perceptions and what parents can do to help their young men struggling with cultural violence.

www.couragenetwork.com
www.acalltomen.org


End Demand NYC - STOP Trafficking



I'm sorry for all the videos. There are lots more but, of the ones I've seen, I thought these were really good.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
4. This is really encouraging.
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 11:08 PM
Jun 2012


A CALL TO MEN is a leading national men's organization addressing domestic and sexual violence prevention and the promotion of healthy manhood. We are committed to maintaining strong partnerships with women's organizations already doing this important work. We help to organize communities in order to raise awareness and get men involved in this effort.

A CALL TO MEN believes that preventing domestic and sexual violence is ultimately the responsibility of men. Although historically it has been almost entirely women who have been at the forefront addressing this issue, we think it is essential that men play a primary role in the solution. To do that, well-meaning men…men who, for the most part don't see themselves as part of the problem…need to get involved.

By strategizing with groups across the United States and abroad, our vision is to shift social norms that define manhood in our culture, and produce a national movement of men dedicated to this cause. A CALL TO MEN is unique in its ability to be affirming and respectful to the experiences of women while expressing genuine care and hope for men. Through seminars, workshops and other educational vehicles, A CALL TO MEN challenges men to reconsider many of the social norms that define manhood, in an effort to create a more just society. Please join us.


I love seeing this. It's so positive.

Thanks.


Catherina

(35,568 posts)
5. I was encouraged to see them talking about homophobia too
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 11:22 PM
Jun 2012

It cheered me to see football roll models telling that to a room full of adolescent boys who were lapping up every word.

I just googled to see if they said anything about transphobia and looked no further than the first result. This is really beautiful, but it deserves its own thread so I'll make one


2012 NATIONAL CALL TO ACTION INSTITUTE AND CONFERENCE
REGISTRATION NOW OPEN

The Women of Color Network (WOCN), in partnership with A CALL TO MEN, Share Time Wisely Consulting Services, and Clarina Howard Nichols Center, is excited to OPEN REGISTRATION for the 2012 National Call to Action Institute and Conference on July 9-13, 2012 in St Paul, MN.

The theme for this ground breaking experience is "Collective Empowerment, Collective Liberation". The framework for the NCTA Institute and Conference is based on the following guiding principles:

* Uniting women of color across ethnicity, race, age, citizenship, sexual orientation, disability, body type, faith, discipline, and locality for collective survival.

* Inspiring those working to be allies to aim for collective liberation in challenging racism, classism, sexism, homophobia, heterosexism, transphobia, ableism, xenophobia, ageism and other forms of oppression and bias.

http://womenofcolornetwork.org/events/index.php

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