Old Dog, New Tricks, Not Easy.

[trumad]

Let me begin by offering an apology (rare in my book) to the fine "members" here in the Feminist Forum.

I started a thread asking the "ladies" of the Feminist forum if the phrase Candy Ass was offensive. Of course in my clumsy way, I didn't word it that way.

I basically said, Candy Ass---yes or no.

Again---clumsy.

This thread hopefully will clarify what I was trying to do in a more concise manner.

Here's the thing: I'm 54 and certainly have Old School tendencies.

I've always been and Equal Rights defender, a Pro Choice male, and basically will have a Females back at every turn. I have a 17 year old daughter who I have raised to make sure she never is discriminated against because of her gender and will always fight for her rights and dignity.

But again---I'm Old School clumsy and have made and still make mistakes with the words I use.

Before DU I wouldn't hesitate in calling a Woman a Bitch--- I wouldn't hesitate in calling someone Pussy, or Bimbo, or Honey, or Darling, or Sweetie---and many other words to that effect.

Heck---just a year ago I got called on the carpet when I used the word Cowgirl when describing the Dallas Cowboys.

My old school ways started to change when I joined this forum. Oh sure I battled a bit thinking that the Word Nazi's were in full force.... but eventually I realized that I was being a dumb ass.

I asked---how would I feel if on a daily basis I had to encounter feeling second class because of Old School Morans like me?

I wouldn't like it and I would be pissed.

That's when I began to change---call it my enlightenment.

There are some out there---OK---a Lot---who think these words and phrases are not a big deal, but it is.

For a guy like me who truly feels that every single one of Gods creatures is equal, why on earth would I say things that make them unequal? ---make no sense.

Yesterday I truly came here for advice on a phrase that I was not sure about. I used Candy Ass in GD describing Scott Brown--- and really didn't get any push back for using it. BUT---I thought, hey, it may be offensive, lets find out.

So I came here and posted a very clumsy thread.

I used the word "ladies" when asking and was promptly told the word was condescending when addressing a group of women.

In the past I would have ranted about why "ladies" is inappropriate in that setting.

Well--- not anymore.

Now I say--- OK, I get that, why genderize my question....just ask the fricking question.---lesson learned.

This old battleship is turning and will continue turning on a daily basis. I have come a long way since 2001, a long way. ---but I am fully aware that I still have work to do and I will make a mistake or two along the way.

Make no mistake though--- I've got your backs and I fully appreciate your efforts in enhancing my self-awareness.

tru

[Neoma]

1. There was no explaination about how it came from general discussion.

And it was very vague as to what you were asking for, or if that was an offer. To our perspective, it comes down to this also, why ask us? I've been some sort of "evil dictator." Ever since the split. (Thank iverglas for all that.) By now there are other sources by which you could have asked. Not that I'm against you coming here at all. Everyone has been welcome as long as blatant sexism, ageism or transphobia is out of the discussion. Some of which was in the infamous flame-war.

Also, I'm okay with th word lady. Some people aren't though.

[kdmorris]

2. I didn't have a problem with "ladies"

to me - it's a word to describe a group of women and "Women..." kind of sounds clunky (sounds like "Gentlemen, start your engines" or something. Don't let one person (or even a few people) speak for all women (or feminists). That's how we got in this mess.

Truthfully, I had no idea what that post was about and perceived that it was an attempt to start trouble. I had not seen the post you were questioning over in GD and thought maybe you had gotten us confused with the History of Feminism forum (thought maybe one of them might have given you shit or something) Given the hell the Feminist forum has gone through the last few months, it was more like "Oh, god, not going through this shit again".

I don't think I have as many issues with words as some other women. Obvious words like "p*ssy", "b**ch", "c*nt"... there's really no mistaking that those are misogynistic and I'm not likely to accept someone saying "I didn't know". I'm not that fond of douchebag, either, but other women have not had a problem with that one. But... *I* am not the arbiter of words that are OK to use. I am uncomfortable with any one person or group of people being the arbiter of words that are allowed to be used.

I had to look "candy ass" up, because I truthfully didn't know if it was sexist or not. It didn't seem to be, but then someone else pointed out that it might be homophobic. I do not understand people that get all up in arms the first time a kind of nebulous word is used.

I don't see why people can't be more civil and say "Hey, Trumad - that word is kind of used to describe this bad thing and you should probably avoid using it", instead of "Hey Trumad, you sexist asshole, I'm coming for you with my pitchfork". I think you know which words are obviously sexist. After that, do the best you can and hope that people don't jump on you - both guns a blazing. I know how that feels and it's not at all fun.

(by the way - I do really appreciate you coming back and explaining. I would have had no clue without this post)

[Whisp]

3. hi trumad, pleased to meet you.

Good of you to take the time to explain yourself here and that is appreciated.

I just assumed you were up to some mischief with that question yesterday, thats all there was to it.

As far as the word - I'm not all that familiar with it but think it has something to do with insulting men by giving them women qualities, that is the one way to insult a guy the most and we hear references to it all the time.

Like you I have learned a lot from DU and don't use certain words now (still do some pretty hefty general swearing tho but am working on that) and don't try to tell people how they should feel about something if it's not possible for me to have Been in that situation.

sorry about yesterday, but things work out fine usually, don't they.

[trumad]

4. Peace

[REP]

5. Thank you, Trumad :-)

I guessed that about your first OP. I knew a lot of the other stuff from reading your posts over the last 10 years - I've never doubted you were an ally (and I believe at one time we were both Kansas Citians, and I know how we talk).

As I said in your Meta thread a couple times, I go with Partridge's definition: a weak person. I've heard it applied to men, women, cars ...

[laconicsax]

6. Wow, you're 378 in dog years!

[trumad]

7. Well---

I add in my kids yeas as well.

For each year my kid is living with me---add 7 years to my life.

I have 3 kids---18---17---15...x 7....