'If you could rape someone, who would it be?'

[BlueIris]

So asks a fraternity survey circulated at a frat on UVM's campus (which has been suspended, pending an investigation.)

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111213/NEWS02/111213025/UVM-suspends-fraternity-after-survey-asks-members-who-they-want-rape

Just when I think I've seen the worst of our rape culture, another group of sick bastards raises its ugly, ugly head.

[hlthe2b]

1. Good heavens.... I hope they expel whoever was responsible for that (and if this is systemic....

They should consider disbanding the whole damned fraternity. Disgusting.

[seabeyond]

2. but, it doesnt exist. it is just in our imagination. 43-60% college males

would rape if they could get away with it. depends on the study and what college.

just in our imagination.

[redqueen]

8. Yep, all just a bunch of extremist radfems making mountains out of molehills.

Nothing systemic or insidious going on at all.

Rape porn is fine. It's just a fantasy so STFU.

[seabeyond]

9. have you read "girl with a dragon tattoo". that is in lounge now

and i saw in book fiction. it is the big rave. the original title was.... men who hate women. that title would not fly in u.s. so they changed it to bring it here. for about a year now i have been hearing about this book and seeing it everywhere. it is like a mass conditioning of society getting into the ugly of rape and male sexual fantasy with the ok of literary genius. it is even poorly written and people say ignore that for the story.

the swedish movie on the rape was described as long, explicit, beyond the norm. the u.s. movie is said to have taken the rape further. the girl raped then goes on to have sex like it is nothing. a middle aged man that is nothing, has every young woman hittin on him with explicit sex. all the women in the book has sad/sick sexual assault experience in their history

and this has become THE book.

i dont get it.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. I tried

It sickened me . . . never again.

[seabeyond]

12. what is it? what makes it the rave today? nt

[JustAnotherGen]

23. Me?

I picked it up because I'm an avid reader, and have several good friends that are avid readers who generally give me great recommendations.

I don't get it - seriously. I'm not a huge fan of adventure based fiction in the first place . . . and for my 'pop literature' I generally stick to James Patterson, C.A. Belmond (love her heroine Penny), Peter Mayle, etc. etc. It was pop literature that turned out to not be the 'mind candy' I sometimes want to enjoy and get lost in. A few chapters in and I'm thinking . . . okay - this is going to be more John Irving than Peter Mayle. Halfway in - I put it down.

Aside from the violence without reason - the author is neither a good writer, nor a stellar story teller.

If you want a good 'story' where the violence that IS in there is not just sexual violence and violence without reason - stick to James Patterson. Yeah - I can read an Alex Cross book in one setting - but that's because Patterson knows how to tell a STORY. He's not trying to be pretentious and call vomiting on the keyboard 'literature'.

[seabeyond]

24. that is what i hear from anyone not hyping the book

pretentious. vomiting on the keyboard 'literature'

[redqueen]

14. Nope.

I have no interest in it at all. It's so overhyped, and that alone turns me off most things. I'll wait till the hoopla dies down to even consider such things, unless someone I know and trust recommends it. I rather doubt that's going to happen in this case.

I just read a review, and it surprises me not at all that this has become THE book. It seems that society views sex as extremely important, but women are just the 'things' which are required for it to be fun for those people who like to use those things (women's bodies) to fulfill their entitlement for sexual gratification.

It seems that women as a group are resented for their necessity, and their not living up to the 'ideal' of being emotionless and interchangeable props. Or at least that might be one possible explanation for the deep-seated hatred and contempt which is so commonplace.

[redqueen]

16. You might also enjoy this review,

so I thought I'd link you up.

Here's a nice excerpt:

--------

What an adequate emotional response to rape might be is lost in translation. Hysterics? Fainting? She does not go to the police, also unlike a normal lady: “Salander was not like any normal person…Visiting the offices of those visor-clad brutes to file a report against Nils Bjurman for sexual assault did not even cross her mind.” (Ironically, one of the supposedly real-life statistics Larsson cites at the beginning of each part of the book asserts that “Ninety-two percent of women in Sweden who have been subjected to sexual assault have not reported the most recent violent incident to the police.” That’s an awful lot of abnormal women for one country.)

So, feminist heroine? Maybe not so much. Salander reads more like masturbation fodder for dudes who want to pretend they aren’t sleazy; Tomb Raider for manarchists, if you will. She hates herself, she “look[s] fourteen,” and she has “high cheekbones that [give] her an almost Asian look.” I don’t even want to touch that last one, honestly, but I am not the first person to note that there are some especially inappropriate tropes of Asian ladies currently circulating in our culture, and they are not, shall we say, feminist. Reading Salander as a feminist icon for our times is a pretty challenging endeavor. About the best thing you can say about her is that, unlike Larsson’s other characters, she at least has some depth.

People who write about dead ladies make a shit-ton of money (see: Patterson, James; Cornwell, Patricia; Koontz, Dean; &c ad nauseum). Even more people want to read about dead ladies than want to write about them; which, as a lady, stresses me out. I like murder mysteries and I like thrillers. But I am getting fucking tired of those stories revolving solely around rape and torture. Packaging that nastiness up as feminist is icing on an ugly cake. There are men who hate women: I am aware of this. Anyone who has ever tried living as a woman is aware of this. I don’t need a ten-page explicit rape scene to bring this point home; I need only to leave my house.

--------

The next, final paragraph is a thing of beauty.

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/07/29/the-girl-with-the-lots-of-creepy-disturbing-torture-that-pissed-me-off-on-stieg-larsson/

[seabeyond]

19. yes. this is exactly what i take from this book.

exactly. and no wonder, today, it is a rave for both gender. tell them he is a feminist and even the women will buy into it.

dont listen to your gut. let society tell you

[Lunacee2012]

25. WTF is that blogger taking about when she said

parakeet in the vagina?! Goddamn, that's one movie I'm not going to watch.

ETA: I really wanted this movie/book to be good. I really really did.

As for those assholes who talked about who they wanted to rape, to hell with them and anyone else who thinks like that.

[seabeyond]

26. that is what i mean. a book about only demeaning women and calling it a feminist

work of art.

it seems like indicative of our society today. demean, degrade the woman and tell her she is sexually empowered.

[Lunacee2012]

27. I've been meaning to tell you

and redqueen (and a few others) that I really appreciate you standing up for women. Thank you.

[seabeyond]

28. lol and huge sigh

thank you

[redqueen]

29. Some women really liked it...

or the books anyway, and the Swedish movie. Maybe the original movie version didn't glamorize the rape. I won't ever know any more about it than I do now though because I have no intention of reading them or seeing either movie.

[seabeyond]

30. i hear the scene was very very explicit and thorough and long and graphic. the u.s. version

is suppose to be even more of all of that.

but we are told, a feminist wrote this. and we are told it is pro woman. and we are told it is a great literary writing. and we are not told, the original title is.... men who hate women.

[redqueen]

31. Yeah, right. (spoilers below)

Because a feminist would definitely make the heroine get a boob job in the second book, and have her think of it as the best gift she ever gave herself.

[justiceischeap]

37. I saw the Swedish version of the film

SPOILER
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I'm confused as to which rape scene you're referring to... there are, if I recall correctly, 2 rape scenes in the movie. The one where her probation officer rapes her and then the one where she rapes him back to get her revenge. At the time I wondered if they would actually show the scene where she rapes him... that was pretty damn graphic.

[ensho]

3. that fraternity should be disbanded

and the members asked to leave UVM

[Cherchez la Femme]

32. There is a petition for that

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/end-rape-culture-now---shut-down-sigma-phi-epsilon-vermont-gamma/


Edit: It appears there is a stalker/predator on the loose there already,
but it's OK 'cause it's only a "Peeping Tom".

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111213/NEWS02/111213021/University-Vermont-lookout-Peeping-Tom-?odyssey=obinsite

[laconicsax]

4. !

[Cigar11]

5. So much for Higher Education

[GodlessBiker]

6. Unfathomable.

[ZombieHorde]

7. From the article...

“While the university administration has laid off long-time Women’s and Gender Studies faculty and supported sexist institutions like Sigma Phi Epsilon, it has refused to take concerted action to combat sexism and rape culture,” the petition continued. “We demand that instead of diverting resources into vast salaries for its administrators, UVM should launch an aggressive campaign against sexism and rape culture, and it should expand institutions such as Women’s and Gender Studies and the Women’s Center at UVM.

[polly7]

10. It's pretty disgusting, isn't it?

I'm glad this is all being brought out for more exposure. Too many people believe 'date rape' is somehow not as bad as stranger rape. They don't seem to understand that for the person being raped ..... there is no difference at all, along with an added after-effect of complete lack of trust that can go on for years ... or eternity.

[CrispyQ]

13. Our culture is a cesspool.

I don't have children, & I can't imagine the uphill battle it must be to raise decent human beings in this society.

[seabeyond]

15. when i got married in 92 and had a kid in 93, this

Last edited Wed Dec 14, 2011, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

was not the world i had signed up for.

i tell my hubby, i had no way of knowing all this was gonna happen with net, bushco/macho/evolution psychology, porn, misogyny. if he is unhappy, think how unhappy i am.

now, two boys, in this trash....

it is hard.

[CrispyQ]

17. mack

I had to look that one up. ~damn.

I have great admiration for parents like you who are aware & engaged with your kids.

[seabeyond]

18. meant macho... lol

with bushco came a macho man mentality. along with the porn of degrading dehumanizing submissive women.

and thank you CQ

[CrispyQ]

20. From Urban Dictionary:

Mack- (verb) To hit on, flirt with, or seduce a female by using verbal or sometimes physical means of persuasion.

Physical means of persuation? What exactly does that mean? Pawing at her? Groping her? Restraining her?

[seabeyond]

21. isnt that so fuckin funny

what a hoot. amazing. wow.

lol

and in typo and without me knowing.

universe is a hoot

thanks. i was wondering by your reply if there was not something there with mack. was gonna check but got distracted.

[redqueen]

22. It might refer to Pick Up Artist type BS.

There is a **** ton of material out there which claims to teach men how to pick up women.

Kind of like women's magazines might advise women to twirl their hair, or turn their face downward so that they seem to be looking up at whatever person they're trying to attract. Though there does seem to be a much darker side to that PUA stuff as well.

It all seems so very creepy and artificial to me.

[BlueIris]

35. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be raising sons in this mess.

It is one of my biggest fears re: potential parenthood. Whether sons or daughters, it will be tough, but how would I raise a son and have him not get sucked into the whirlpool of woman hating? How would I keep him from becoming a monster?

[seabeyond]

36. it is such a continuing delicate balance. embrace your manhood and

always, always, honor it. never make them feel less in pointing out the inherent sexism and act of dehumanizing and lessening another gender. be sexual and love your sexuality. it is all good. but, do it without degrading or demeaning another. understand the conditioning's to males. the male pack mentality that gets in the way of being your own in health and balance. the harm that comes to them with the incessant
imagery of what a woman is and suppose to be thru media and social norms. the inundation of the porn world and inherent submissiveness and addictive quality in the porn to women and the harm in their sexuality. the females adopted world of third person sexuality at her expense for man. a girls own conditioning and what to be weary of.

all of this without appearing to be doing all of this, lol. knowing a responsibility to give the kids tools so they can make good choices and develop and yet not take them away from who they are.

understanding the simple male privilege that allows them to overlook all this without establishing a sense of guilt.

fortunately, a lot of it is wrapped up in a safe, secure, honest, loving environment. examples set by two adults in both gender roles we live, how we behave, what we allow in our environment and why. personal responsibility.

it is a different world today than when we grew up. and i see it effecting the kids. i see it effect the kids in their young 20's differently than what i am seeing in the teens today. they have learned a lot from the group right above them that stepped into this stuff first.

if you are into human behavior, this is one broiling vat of experiment with our children.

[Gormy Cuss]

33. Frat stupidity of the highest order.

What WERE they thinking? It saddens me that any college age male would think this was acceptable -- saddens but does not surprise me, alas.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. My sister once said that until humans reach 26 or 27, they're idiots

I have to believe that's true. What's scary is that some continue being idiots past 26 and 27, and can drink and vote!

[BlueIris]

38. Idiocy does not explain or justify what the fraternity did.

Casually discussing whom they would rape is not the result of idiocy. A rapist's mentality, maybe. Sociopathy, perhaps. Lots of other serious mental health problems. Assholery.

Idiocy is being too kind.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

39. Quite true

I wonder if educating kids about sexism would help? I don't much mean with regard to sociopaths, who simply need to be under a doctor's care, but the rest.

[xmas74]

40. What the hell?!!!

Who even thinks like this?