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niyad

(113,259 posts)
Thu Oct 6, 2016, 02:20 PM Oct 2016

Sorry, Sally Phillips, but a woman should be able to know if her unborn baby has Down’s syndrome

Sorry, Sally Phillips, but a woman should be able to know if her unborn baby has Down’s syndrome
Hadley Freeman

A woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy is non-negotiable. Even if Phillips – someone I’ve long-admired – doesn’t like their reasons

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‘Phillips and her online supporters insist that they’re not anti-choice – they just want women to make ‘informed’ choices.’ Photograph: Ken McKay/ITV/Rex Features



. . . . .

Which brings me to Phillips’ documentary, A World Without Down’s Syndrome?, which screened on Wednesday night on BBC2. There has been an enormous amount of publicity for this documentary, with praise for Phillips’ clearly heartfelt intentions. The actor has an adorable young son, Olly, who has Down’s syndrome, and one of her aims is to provide a counterbalance to the almost entirely negative depiction of Down’s syndrome in both society and the media. For this, she should be loudly applauded. True, her wholly positive depiction of her life with a child with Down’s syndrome is as partial as the wholly negative ones, not least because her son is relatively high-functioning and Phillips and her husband are able to afford help. Still, as I said, it’s a much-needed corrective, and hats off to her.


But that is not all Phillips and her film are arguing for. Rather, the documentary was pegged to the imminent availability of non-invasive prenatal testing on the NHS, which is a safe and more accurate method of screening for Down’s syndrome than the form currently available, and with no risk of miscarriage. This, according to Phillips, is “sad, it’s just horrible, really”. Later, she describes herself as “really quite angry” about it. Phillips makes no bones that she is coming at this subject from a deeply personal perspective, one that is occasionally blurred with tears during her film. This perhaps explains why such a bright woman repeatedly and determinedly conflated equipping pregnant women with knowledge about their unborn baby – that is, being screened – and the advice they are then given about it. No doubt some medical professionals have advised women to have terminations after receiving a positive test; there absolutely should be campaigning about how this kind of information is imparted to expectant women and mothers who have just given birth.


This, however, does not mean that women should be denied available information about their unborn baby’s health, and instead be unnecessarily surprised at birth with a situation for which they may be entirely unprepared. Phillips is right: rates of Down’s syndrome probably will decrease with the rise of easier, more accurate screening. But she is wrong to then draw the conclusion that women should therefore not be informed about the health of their in utero baby. Phillips did not know Olly had Down’s syndrome until he was born. But this, she says, was a good thing, because by having no choice she was compelled to see how much Olly benefits her family. “That made me wonder whether choice is always the wonderful thing it’s cracked up to be,” she says, a statement which casts something of a shadow on her description of herself as “pro-choice”. But while not having a choice has worked out wonderfully for her family, no consideration is given to women who do not have Phillips’ aforementioned privileges. A single mother with two jobs and three kids, for example, might not find similar benefits from a lack of choice. It is very difficult to see how compelling women who genuinely feel they cannot care for a child with special needs to give birth helps anyone, least of all people with Down’s syndrome.

. . . . .

And therein lies the rub: the idea that women should only have terminations for reasons someone else finds acceptable. How about if a woman feels too young to have a baby, or too poor, or doesn’t want to be tied to the man she conceived with for the rest of her life, or she doesn’t want a third baby, or any baby at all – are these permissible reasons for a termination? They are all pretty common ones. Or is it just a Down’s syndrome diagnosis that is deemed an unacceptable cause for an abortion? In more controversial areas, such as sex-selection abortion, the correct approach is to tackle the attitudes behind it, not ban abortion per se. Similarly, with Down’s syndrome screening what needs examining is the image around the syndrome and the way doctors discuss it, not the screening itself. It’s the attitudes, not the science, that’s the problem. Science is what gives women the choice. Which brings me to the nub of Phillips’ documentary.

. . . . .


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/06/sally-phillips-woman-unborn-baby-downs-terminate-pregnancy

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sorry, Sally Phillips, but a woman should be able to know if her unborn baby has Down’s syndrome (Original Post) niyad Oct 2016 OP
I created a new account to reply to this. Neema Oct 2016 #1
Exactly. nt SunSeeker Oct 2016 #2
welcome back. I am sorry that you had to come back with such a difficult subject. yes, you niyad Oct 2016 #4
Thanks niyad. Neema Oct 2016 #8
Welcome to DU gopiscrap Oct 2016 #5
Thanks. Neema Oct 2016 #7
You are welcome gopiscrap Oct 2016 #9
K & R SunSeeker Oct 2016 #3
Expectant mothers and their obstetricians need to know. Ilsa Oct 2016 #6
thank you for that excellent information niyad Oct 2016 #10
Not all hospitals are equipped to deal with probable Ilsa Oct 2016 #11
one would think that this would be obvious, even to sally. niyad Oct 2016 #12

Neema

(1,151 posts)
1. I created a new account to reply to this.
Thu Oct 6, 2016, 04:49 PM
Oct 2016

I was a frequent poster on DU for years but had a sobering experience IRL. I couldn't change my user name or delete my account, so I left for a long time. But I had to respond to this because it makes me crazy.

Anyway, I had a late in life pregnancy, and I absolutely tested for everything I could. As much as I wanted a child, I knew I couldn't risk having a child who couldn't live independently as an adult. I don't have other children, or a large family network, or unlimited funds to set aside for a lifetime of care.

That is unfortunately the reality I had to face thanks to years of the far right gutting social programs. They love to espouse their "pro-life" bullshit, but that stance ends as soon as a mother gives birth.

People love to act like you're some kind of monster for not wanting to take a pregnancy with Down's to term, but I couldn't bear the thought of a having an adult child left all alone when I die, not able to take care of himself or herself. I just don't trust that the safety net will be in place. And the very people who want social programs to be taken away are the same ones who'll wag their fingers about abortion.

/end rant

niyad

(113,259 posts)
4. welcome back. I am sorry that you had to come back with such a difficult subject. yes, you
Thu Oct 6, 2016, 07:00 PM
Oct 2016

are correct, we are looking at decades of the pukes gutting social programs, and a totally clueless judgmental attitude from people who refuse to see the truth.

and, isn't it hypocritical, that those who wag their fingers have no problem having an abortion when THEIR circumstances dictate.

and, I am so very sorry for the irl circumstances. I hope things are getting better.

Neema

(1,151 posts)
8. Thanks niyad.
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 12:51 PM
Oct 2016

Thinks are better now, but I don't think I'll be quite as active as I once was.

Totally agree though, very hypocritical. Republicans are a hypocritical bunch on the whole.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
6. Expectant mothers and their obstetricians need to know.
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:38 AM
Oct 2016

Down syndrome babies are more likely to have cardiac defects that require specialty services such as a highly skilled NICU and a neonatologist cardiologist, even if a mom chooses to give birth.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
11. Not all hospitals are equipped to deal with probable
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 05:47 PM
Oct 2016

Life-threatening difficulties. By knowing, they can plan for a scheduled delivery in another location that has the staff and equipment to deal with emergencies, instead of life-flighting the newborn to a better hospital.

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