HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Health » Pro-Choice (Group) » This sums it up perfectly

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:15 AM

This sums it up perfectly

Stolen from a comment on Quora by Sarah Geer. This is 100% spot-on.


...well for starters the real issue ISN’T whether a
fetus is a human life or not. The real issue is bodily autonomy rights.

Even if one were to pretend a nonviable, nonsentient fetus is a full person due rights under the law, the bodily autonomy issue remains: no person in our society is allowed to use the bodies or organs of other people unless they have that person’s EXPRESS POSITIVE CONSENT, not even to save their own lives.

A man on the transplant list cannot force another man to donate him a kidney, even if that second man is the only match and the first will die without it.

A doctor may not take blood or organs from a corpse without that person’s prior consent to posthumous organ donation, even to save the life of a dying child.

Thus a fetus cannot use a woman’s body and organs against her will and without her express consent. Contrary to popular claim by conservatives, sex is not consent to pregnancy (my consent for a man to have use of my vagina is NOT consent for a third party to take over my uterus and use my entire body for 40 weeks), and POSITIVE INFORMED consent is required for organ donation or use to begin with.

And the reason there is so much “hate” on this issue is because one side believes women are simply THINGS the moment they have sex; that they are nothing more than incubators who must risk their lives and health whether they want to or not in order to give birth. That they give up their rights to their bodies the instant they have sex.

The other side thinks women are actual people.

30 replies, 7948 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply This sums it up perfectly (Original post)
Freddie May 2019 OP
BaileyBill May 2019 #1
handmade34 May 2019 #2
2naSalit May 2019 #8
CousinIT May 2019 #3
lostnfound May 2019 #4
GemDigger May 2019 #13
Sucha NastyWoman May 2019 #5
2naSalit May 2019 #9
amywalk May 2019 #19
dvan May 2019 #6
rampartc May 2019 #26
sop May 2019 #7
Freddie May 2019 #11
orleans May 2019 #23
Moostache May 2019 #22
keithbvadu2 May 2019 #10
Haggis for Breakfast May 2019 #18
PoindexterOglethorpe May 2019 #12
Fresh_Start May 2019 #14
BlancheSplanchnik May 2019 #15
Freddie May 2019 #17
BlancheSplanchnik May 2019 #28
Delmette2.0 May 2019 #16
BobTheSubgenius May 2019 #20
LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2019 #21
orleans May 2019 #24
LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2019 #27
BlancheSplanchnik May 2019 #29
orleans May 2019 #30
Freddie May 2019 #25

Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:54 AM

1. In many of the most anti-choice states (if not all states)

you are allowed to use deadly force against anyone who enters your home without consent and causes you to be in fear for your life or safety. Yet they deny the same right if someone enters your body without your consent. The problem is expecting those on the right to respect logic, much less women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:00 AM

2. another "reason there is so much "hate" on this issue"

one side sees sex as merely a biological function and the other side sees sex as an enjoyable, intimate way to communicate and express yourself with another human

the former sees the need to punish women for enjoying sex

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to handmade34 (Reply #2)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:24 AM

8. I see it as

the ones who view sex as a biological exercise mean that it is only that for women, the others sex is allowed to enjoy it even when it's rape.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:42 AM

4. "Can not take blood or organs from a corpse without that person's consent"

That’s an argument I’ve never heard before and it’s an interesting one.
Wonder how many anti-abortion men have refused to consent to organ donation.
Fascinating.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lostnfound (Reply #4)

Sat May 11, 2019, 12:28 PM

13. I doubt that any of them are donors but I would bet they would all be takers if they needed it. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:12 AM

5. I thijnk for a lot of a certain type of men

It is about the right to spread their seed, and the frustration that women can decide what happens to that seed, and there is nothing they can do about it except enlist the law to give them a say in the matter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sucha NastyWoman (Reply #5)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:28 AM

9. I would add

that they "right" to spread their seed also includes, in their reckoning, the woman's obligation to accommodate them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sucha NastyWoman (Reply #5)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:01 PM

19. I think it's about the ability to control a woman's body when a man is not around.

They don’t want women to be able to have sex with other people without severe consequences.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:18 AM

6. THEY DO NOT CARE

The problem is- we keep expecting them to act like rational, caring, moral people. They are not and never will be. It’s like playing a game with someone who doesn’t care about the rules. You may get a “moral victory” because you didn’t cheat like they did, but you still get the “L”. I’m not saying we need to start breaking the law and cheating like they do, but we have to do everything in our power to defeat them and put our foot on their throats. Extreme methods must be used on these right wing extremists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dvan (Reply #6)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:26 AM

26. like playing golf with trump?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:21 AM

7. Personal views on abortion should remain personal

Last edited Sat May 11, 2019, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)

The State has absolutely no right to control what a woman chooses to do with her own body. None whatsoever, under any condition. A state that arrogates that type of power over a woman's reproductive system to itself can also dictate how many children a woman can have, like the old China one-child policy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sop (Reply #7)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:05 AM

11. Exactly

I had to share this as it really hit home. My daughter recently endured a difficult pregnancy. Morning sickness, migraines, gestational diabetes (with insulin and a very restrictive diet) and near the end she developed HELPP syndrome, which is similar to pre-eclampsia except more likely to be fatal. She did all that because SHE WANTED THE BABY. Can you imagine being forced to risk your life like that against your will??
She had an emergency c-section when her blood pressure spiked and had a healthy baby girl, a little early at 35 weeks but otherwise fine. She also got her tubes tied so it doesn’t happen again. The forced birthers object to that too, would prefer that she die after a short life of constant childbearing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Reply #11)

Sun May 12, 2019, 01:06 AM

23. i'm sorry your daughter had such a difficult time

and i'm very glad both her and her baby are doing well.

thank you for posting this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sop (Reply #7)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:52 AM

22. It is worse than just the number of children...

The slippery slope goes from number to permissible number of sexual acts, to number of sexual partners, to permissible times for sexual acts, to permitted positions for insemination, etc...

Small government? Who will staff the Inter-uterus investigation patrol? Where will the judges on the Reproductive Crimes units come from - appointees? elections? How long will they serve on the bench? Lifetime appointments? 2-year terms? 4? 6? Who DECIDES a viable pregnancy when potential harm, loss of fertility or death are possible for the pregnant woman? Like EVERYTHING out of a conservative pea brain, there is no "there" there....no plans, no thoughts, no logic, no consistency...

Reduce abortions? BULLSHIT...you only INCREASE the health risks to women and the number of deaths from dangerous abortions in uncontrolled underground and back alley 'services'.

Think of the 'child'? Yeah, riiiiiiight, until it goes home and needs food or health care or education or support for the parents. Without MANDATORY child welfare laws ATTACHED to anti-abortion laws they are nothing but state sanctioned cruelty writ into law.

I really abhor the anti-choice, control the women crowd. Almost as deeply as a I hate Trump. Fuck them all with the same rusty garden tool.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:03 AM

10. Pro-life is a myth.

Pro-life is a myth.

The supposed pro-lifers cared naught when the state of Texas (republican gov, republican Prez) deliberately killed living baby Sun Hudson against the mother's wishes because he was an inconvenience to the state.

It is not a matter of life to the supposed pro-lifers.

It is a matter of control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #10)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:40 PM

18. This is EXACTLY what I have been saying for decades.

It's ALL about MEN having CONTROL over WOMEN's bodies.

To these men, women are something to be owned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:06 AM

12. I've been saying for years that if you don't believe in abortion then don't have one.

Of course, all the anti-choice people simply don't believe that females should have any autonomy whatsoever.

And I notice that all of those forced pregnancy states are likewise enthusiastic supporters of state sanctioned pre-meditated murder, which they call by the strange name of "The Death Penalty".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 01:23 PM

14. I couldn't agree more

if women have to donate their bodies...
then every adult in the US needs to also be on call to donate from their bodies and that donation has to be more than a pint of blood.

let them give a kidney, part of your lung, part of your liver, bone marrow, part of your pancreas, part of your intestine, part of your skin....., veins, you can even survive with one eye....

if some people are expected to be demanded to give of their bodies, so should all people be demanded to give of their bodies.

let's see how many of the pro-lifers can walk that walk.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:41 PM

15. Best explanation I've ever read.

I do not consent to becoming a thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #15)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:28 PM

17. Yup. I am either a human being or an incubator

Forcing a woman to give birth against her will is an insult to her worth as a human.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Reply #17)

Sun May 12, 2019, 10:02 AM

28. Yep. Plenty of sci-fi fantasies about that.

🤯🤬

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:13 PM

16. OMG, I love the OP and the comments.

Rec'd for exposure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 10:53 PM

20. That is an EXCELLENT point,

and one I have never heard before. Excellent find!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:09 PM

21. A co-worker said sex outside of marriage is wrong, and a pregnancy which results

is God's way of punishing the woman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LastLiberal in PalmSprings (Reply #21)

Sun May 12, 2019, 01:08 AM

24. omg--who needs to hear shit like that at work!

i hope they don't last long at the job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to orleans (Reply #24)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:52 AM

27. He started the conversation out of thin air. "What do you think about abortion?"

he asked. "I'd never have one," I said, hoping to deflect the entire conversation I knew what was to follow. He pressed the issue and I said I'd discuss it seriously with him, but first I needed to write something down.

The conversation continued throughout the lunch period, with him giving the usual bullshit bullet points and me refuting his arguments with facts. Finally I got him backed into a corner where he admitted he thought God didn't approve of sex outside of marriage, and that making the woman bear the child that results from it is His way of punishing her.

I handed him the paper I had written on at the beginning of the discussion. On it I had written, "____ will say that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and forcing the woman to bear a child is God's way of punishing her."

"We could have saved a half hour if you had just told the truth when we began this discussion," I said as I got up to return to work.

That was the last time he brought up the topic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LastLiberal in PalmSprings (Reply #27)

Sun May 12, 2019, 10:04 AM

29. You rock. That's the best slam method ever!

It shut him up real good!! 👍🏾

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LastLiberal in PalmSprings (Reply #27)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:14 PM

30. lol -- nice work! :) n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LastLiberal in PalmSprings (Reply #21)

Sun May 12, 2019, 07:51 AM

25. But men never get punished at all, right?

Those evil wimmen do it all by themselves.
I read a comment by a “conservative” in which they said that one of their main principles was “no one should have children unless they can afford them.” And in the meantime make it difficult to prevent them! They actually say this stuff with a straight face.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread