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Fri Aug 23, 2019, 03:13 AM

A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Jill Filipovic
Thu 22 Aug 2019 06.00 EDT

According to self-identified ďpro-lifeĒ advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll* shows thatís a lie. The ďpro-lifeĒ movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes Ė compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters donít like the #MeToo movement. They donít think the lack of women in positions of power impacts womenís equality. They donít think access to birth control impacts womenís equality. They donít think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.


Snip...

More at the link.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/22/a-new-poll-shows-what-really-interests-pro-lifers-controlling-women

*Link to PDF poll download: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/1647-supermajority-survey-on-women/429aa78e37ebdf2fe686/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

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Reply A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women (Original post)
littlemissmartypants Aug 2019 OP
True Blue American Aug 2019 #1
Doodley Aug 2019 #2
Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2019 #12
Rainbow Droid Aug 2019 #3
barbtries Aug 2019 #5
littlemissmartypants Aug 2019 #6
sakabatou Aug 2019 #4
mnhtnbb Aug 2019 #7
Freddie Aug 2019 #8
Amimnoch Aug 2019 #9
Bob Loblaw Aug 2019 #10
Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2019 #13
Bob Loblaw Aug 2019 #18
Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2019 #11
we can do it Aug 2019 #14
PJMcK Aug 2019 #15
CrispyQ Aug 2019 #17
Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2019 #19
CrispyQ Aug 2019 #16

Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 03:28 AM

1. No surprise there

It has always been about controlling women.

I have heard evangelical women tell me the man is the head. For some reason they have it planted in their heads that women are not equal to men on every level. It is ingrained in their teaching.

Religion has always been male dominated. It is also filled with lies and proaganda. For now it has become cruel and mean.

And I speak as one who goes to Church for nourishment on how to live life to the best of my ability. But like many others it is getting harder all the time.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:07 AM

2. I have a Republican family member - early 20s, very Christian Right upbringing - when I asked, she

told me women shouldn't be paid the same as men because they have babies!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 05:58 AM

12. Good news


The good news is that you don't need to go to church or any church time at all to get wonderful nourishment on how to live life to the best of your ability.

There are many resources and teachings and ancient books and up-to-the-day guidance available, as well as online chat, online forums, email penpals, etc. That's only the surface. Any preacher will spend some time with you on particular points that my be troubling you. DU can help. You can remain friends with your congregation.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:07 AM

3. In other breaking news: Heat found near sources of flame, possibly linking heat and fire.

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Response to Rainbow Droid (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:27 AM

5. thank you

#EndThePatriarchy

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Response to Rainbow Droid (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:37 AM

6. I suggest taking a look at the PDF if you have time.

It's twenty seven pages chock full of research statistics and graphs.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:08 AM

4. George Carlin was right

"You know what [pro-lifers] are? They're anti-woman."

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:47 AM

7. Is water wet?

Last edited Fri Aug 23, 2019, 06:53 AM - Edit history (1)

This comes as no surprise to many of us women who are of an age to have lived our lives experiencing the extent of misogyny in this country.

It's been that way for hundreds of years. Take a look at countries and when women won the right to vote. The US is way down the list. Look what happened to the Equal Rights Amendment. Take a look at the number of countries that have had a woman president or prime minister. The loss of one of the most qualified candidates in history--a woman-- to the most unqualified person to ever run for president in this country still hurts and we as a country are paying the price for the rampant misogyny every day.

The poll has a "no shit Sherlock" conclusion.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:47 AM

8. That's why the "pro-life" crowd is opposed to contraception too

Even though, if their concern is ďsaving livesĒ, that position makes absolutely no sense. Itís quite simple: a woman who is constantly pregnant and/or caring for young children cannot possibly get an education or a good job, and will forever be dependent on her Lord and Master husband.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 05:19 AM

9. Nice to see what almost all of us already knew. The biggest tell:

 

The very fact that they have very high levels of concern and care for a developing fetus, and expecting mothers, yet donít give 2 shits about the mothers or the babies AFTER they are forced to term. You MUST have that baby, but no, you canít have access to free/affordable medical care for yourself or the developing fetus. No you canít have government assistance for food to feed it. No the fetus we loved may not have access to free/affordable medical care after birth. No, weíre not going to ensure the child has great education and a shot at a good life. FFS, theyíd take away the free lunch programs at schools if they could.

If they gave 1/100th the care and concern for babies actually brought to term, their arguments might have just a smidgen of weight.. but their words and actions prove they donít give a shit about children once they are out of the womb, and it is just about measures to control women.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 05:26 AM

10. In their minds

intercourse shouldn't be associated with enjoyment.
Pregnancy is the "punishment" for having sex, similar to how a hangover is "punishment" for drinking too much.

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Response to Bob Loblaw (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 06:01 AM

13. In their minds


... intercourse is for the pleasure of the male. Women who submit are sluts. Men are never sluts no matter how much sex they have.

Hence Brett "Bufo" Kavanaugh, Trump, Epstein, and so many others.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:43 PM

18. Thanks for completing that for me

You're precisely right, and I had not yet finished my first cup of coffee.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 05:51 AM

11. Good find. Thanks for posting. . . . nt

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 06:16 AM

14. Been saying this for years.

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 07:01 AM

15. Surprise, surprise, surprise!

Pro-life, my ass!

When Republicans and other misogynists acknowledge the dangers of high-capacity weapons, I'll believe they care about anyone's life.

When Republicans and other misogynists acknowledge the dangers of the lack of healthcare in this country, I'll believe they care about anyone's life.

When Republicans and other misogynists acknowledge the dangers of climate change, I'll believe they care about anyone's life.

When Republicans and other misogynists acknowledge the dangers of Trump, I'll believe they care about anyone's life.

Until then, their hypocrisy screams louder than any of their words of concern for any fetus.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 10:21 AM

17. This seems like a good place to post these:






I love this part from Sister Chittister: "And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth."

Then there's this excellent take on the 13 Amendment and abortion:

2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion
Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law, akoppelman@law.northwestern.edu

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers


I. The basic argument
The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.


====================================

Parents can't be compelled to donate their organs to their child, even to save the child's life. Why does a fetus have more claim on a woman's body & life?

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 01:22 PM

19. Yes to Joan Chittister. Call them pro-birth, not pro-life. . . . nt

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Response to littlemissmartypants (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 10:08 AM

16. Yeah, who knew?

They donít think the lack of women in positions of power impacts womenís equality. They donít think access to birth control impacts womenís equality. They donít think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.


They don't think these things because they don't think women are equal. The women in this movement have bought into their submissive role, too.

on edit: The PDF is worth a look. Thanks!

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