Patio cover.

[truth2power]

I hope someone can help me with this. I have a small ranch home with a 10 x 14 foot patio. Fairly small as patios go. If I could find a way to cover it for a reasonable price it would improve the livability of my home in more ways than just about anything I could do, home improvement-wise.

Last summer I erected one of those canopies (10 x 20 ft, standard) over the patio. It was quite functional, actually, except that, not being attached to the house, when it rained the surface of the patio was wet. In addition, even though I staked it down tightly, I knew the wind would take it, eventually; as it finally did, in February, dragging a huge concrete block clear across the yard in the process, and twisting all the poles. I now understand how those huge C5A's, loaded with military materiel, get off the ground.

The individual at one company I called for advice about covers said they could put up "an aluminum awning" (I thought of awnings as being those canvas things). He quoted me a price of $2,500. Holy Crap!

In addition, when talking to me his tone seemed to imply that I was just too stupid for words and he didn't really want to be bothered with this job. Now, I am female, and a senior citizen living alone. But I am not stupid. I may be ignorant about certain remodeling issues, but I'm willing to learn.

So...thinking outside the box, I found at Lowes (HD also has the same) these Tuftex Polycarbonate and Vinyl building panels. The brochure shows a support structure that appears to be made entirely of 2x4's. There is a picture of a man and his wife engaged in building this edifice. I notice that they are not sweating and don't appear to be yelling at each other. But nevertheless, "5 easy steps" it says.

I can't imagine the 2x4s would run to two thousand dollars, nor would the panels (plus flashing, closure strips, and associated materials.)

My son is handy, and I am agile and good with power tools. If I could get him over here (somewhat akin to getting an audience with the Pope, but you never know) maybe we could do this. Or I could get a handyman?

Ideas? Suggestions? What am I missing? Anyone done this?

And yes, anything attached to the house requires a building permit. But judging by some of the *ahem* "structures" some of my neighbors have erected I don't think many got permits.

Thanks to anyone who was willing to read thru this. I wish I could be more succinct.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

1. First, g et sev eral bids. You will be amazed at the spread.

Then decide if you want to do it yourself. I just got two bids for some stucco work. The first guy gave me what I thought was a fair price. The next guy quoted me more than twice the amount.

[truth2power]

4. Thanks. I think it would be a good idea to get several estimates, just to compare. n/t

[catnhatnh]

2. Sunsetter maybe???

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-FT-SunSetter-1000XT-Retractable-Awning-/290390500515?var=590000634926&_trksid=p2054897.l5659

[truth2power]

5. Seems like a possibility. I'll look into it.

[truth2power]

10. I have to find something under $1000 incl. installation...

Maybe that's not possible. The ebay item would be over $1000. incl. shipping. The I'd have to get someone to install it.

I spent several hours a couple of nights ago looking at other awning sites. i don't get this, but one could get a 10 x 12 pretty cheap. But anything 10 X 14 goes to fifteen hundred or so. 2 extra feet?

[pscot]

3. I'd use treated 4x4 posts

and at least 2x8 overhead joists; 2x10 would be better. There ought to be a local building code that governs this. In fact you may need a permit. Nail a ledger to the house wall and use metal hangers to attach the joists. And draw up a measured plan before you start. Good luck.

[Warpy]

6. Yes, they sock it to you for aluminum awnings

and they wouldn't allow anything combustible when I lived in a trailer (good thing, probably) so I had to bite the bullet and fork over $800 for a small awning about 20 years ago. It was still better than getting conked on the head with ice when it snowed around here.

One thing you need to make sure of and that's that there are adequate supports for a wooden arrangement. This house came with a back patio covering and the guy did a good job with a lot of fancy saw cuts. Unfortunately, it is large and only has 3 4x4 supports so it's at the end of its life. I'm not sure what will replace it, but I doubt it will survive much longer.

One thing I'm considering to lower the cost slightly are corrugated fiberglas panels for the roof. Those aren't that beautiful unless they're done very well, but they do the job and they do it cheaply.

I won't be using aluminum. Yes, I inherited money but not that much.

ETA: Don't believe those adverts. You are going to need at least two men to hoist lumber up, possibly three. Your wife will rebel quickly because our bodies just don't have the upper strength to do heavy carpentry unless we got really lucky in the genetic lottery. IOW, I've done things like shingle roofs and exteriors but somebody else had to hump the bale of shingles to the site. There was no way for me to do that myself.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

7. Here's some basic designs in wood

http://woodsshop.com/Plans/Patio-Cover/Patio-Cover-Plans.htm




On a 10' by 14 your cost would be reasonable. Metal roofing at lowe's ,home depot is fairly inexpensive. The stuff is for porch/patio overhangs,comes in 2 1/2 ' by 6' or 8' or 12' lengths. Colors-green/brown/black/silver/and a redish kind of a color. Also in fiber glass too. And if you wanted to close it in later on you are set up for that. Or you could throw ply or osb up there and use roll roofing which is inexpensive for a 10' by 14'
On the a screen porch/patio, some people close it in using framed in windows which will make the enclosure seem like an additional room add on to the house with the benefit of the outdoorsy
kind of effect. You would call it a screened in sun patio even if you use framed in windows with screens to do it !

Later on could mean a few years later !
Nail up a ledger as was said,2/10 or 2/12 ,put supports in front 4x's 4s ,throw a bean across and frame away.2x's 6's are better than 2x's 4's for that.2/8's 2/10's I dono on a 10 by 14. On a 20 by 30 second story,,sure 2/8's or 10s Actually code requires 2x's 6's here anyway. Treated wood is the way to go.A 4"by 6" beam should do it, on a 10 by 14. You can look up what code requires on that yourself in your locality.

Good luck with your project.

[truth2power]

12. I'm going to ask a few questions and then just walk away from this for awhile...

My apologies in advance because I've just about had it with this whole project.

First of all, what you've described in your post and what I see in the link you provided is very similar to what I have in mind at this point, having considered and rejected various possibilities. Because of COST, I might add.

So, regarding Lowes...I imagine they're all much the same. There's something called Tuftex - vinyl building panels. About $21.00 per sheet and measurements identical to what you've described. But forget that for right now.

There's a brochure with instructions for building the support structure, which appears to be an effing glorified trellis. It's not rocket science. 2x4's it looks like, except for corner posts. Fourteen frigging feet, I might add.

I'm having a guy come out tomorrow evening to give me an estimate for JUST the TRELLIS thingie. And if he can't do that for a reasonable cost (under $1000) I swear to christ I'll ask if he can just erect 4 posts and beams to connect them. End of story.

I can't believe this. People who review the work of these deck people are throwing down $20,000, $40,000, $75,000 to make their back yards look attractive. What universe are these people living in that they can drop this kind of money???

I'm going to step away from the computer now. Thanks for reading.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

13. I know about your frustration's

did you look at the picture below this thread ? It is fairly basic by it's design. If you went with out door treated wood ,you wouldn't have to complete it all at the same time. That means you can do it phases and you don't have to use the same builder /contractor for each phase, unless of course the contractor is working with you in your budget. I built one that way for some people, after it was framed in, they painted it. 4 months later I roofed it. Two years later I with their help I closed it in ,changing it to a screen windowed patio I suppose you would call it that. That phase in was done over a weekend.

They saw it as an extra room ! Some lights and plugs and they added a tv and a small chill box !
The power was already there ,one outdoor plug and back door or patio lights. Just changed the arrangement around somewhat.

The benefit of being inside and outside bug free ! Kind of like an additional room add on more on an outdoorsy scale.

Since than a a deck was added in front of the closed in patio ,later railings were added to the deck complete with pickets and two gates. Their kids got old enough than they added a pool. That was over 20 years ago.Same house ,same people and a lot of work was done over the years.

They saved money ,I made money, that's how it works. As time went on the projects got more involved and the budget moved up too.

My point is where there is a will there is a way- stick with it.

You can find an independent contractor in home repair that will work with you in your budget.
And you can have the materials delivered,so all the contractor has to do is get there and build it. The contractor will most likely hand select the materials than have them do the delivery.
Home depot or lowe's is a good a place as any to get the materials for an out door project such as what you have in mind. The contractor will give you a list of materials needed and cost.

That way the contractor isn't doing it on time and materials, just straight time. Easy bid ,easy job.

You can do it.!

[NMDemDist2]

8. i've built a couple

the one in PHX we just used shade cloth and it held up to years of microbursts and AZ UVs



we used the metal hangers to attach it to the house, then laid shade cloth and covered it with plastic lattice

[truth2power]

11. That is impressive, NMDem. But this is in AZ, Yes?...

I forgot to mention that I live in Ohio. Yeah. I spent the winter using a pick axe to (repeatedly) chop the ice away from my driveway so I could drive the car out. Then the snowplow would come along and bank all the snow up, which would refreeze. Rinse and repeat.

I don't expect it rains much in AZ, but wouldn't any rain water flow right through that shade cloth?


That's what I want, though. Only waterproof. Someone coming out tomorrow evening to give me an estimate for a "think outside the box" idea I have. More later.

[NMDemDist2]

14. yes in AZ and yes, no snow. the one i built here in NM

we get few inches of snow now and then, we used a metal roof. Materials were about $3000 and another $3000 in labor for a 16x16 roofed deck

[IrishAyes]

16. But would it handle heavy straight line winds?

That's what I have to worry about. In this remote corner of the MidWest, they don't exactly have building codes but they'll tax anything attached to the house or over 12' on any one side. That's why I put up two 10x10 sheds in back. A patio cover would have to be 11 3/4 x 11 3/4. Free standing.

[MADem]

9. I'd go the easy/lazy/no stress way--get a Sunsetter. And get a good one.

Go for something near the top of the line--why not? You deserve it.

You want shade?

Crank it open...! Want sun? Crank it shut!

Wind coming up and you don't want all that area of sail whipping and tearing at your shade covering? Crank it shut!

Simple....easy...versatile.

[shanti]

15. have you considered sun sails?

here's a link to some photos. http://sunsails.co.za/gallery.php

All you'd have to have done is put up some posts, the number depends upon the shape of the shade. you can take them down in the fall too.

[csziggy]

17. Here is a pretty good guide to how to create a patio cover with Tuftex panels

http://www.westmansteel.ca/public/File/products/tuftexInstallGuide.pdf

Note - it does NOT discuss the structural issues with building the structure to hold the panels, just the installation.

On our old barn we used similar panels alternating with corrugated steel panels for our roof. The vinyl panels made great skylights but they only lasted 15-20 years. That was 1979 technology - newer panels may be more resistant to UV damage.

The barn was a pole building - poles set into the ground on 12' centers, roof sloped from "top" to "bottom" with a 1' drop over the 12',doubled 1" x 8" at the top and bottom where there was no need to carry weight above (the barn had a loft in the middle and there were doubled 2" x 12" beams to carry the weight of the hay loft ), 1" x 6" rafters 2' on center running from top to bottom, held by rafter ties and end nailed. Then we ran " x 4" purlins at 16" centers horizontally across the top of the rafters - the roofing panels were nailed to those.

I wish we had used heavier purlins since it's hairy sending people up on that roof to work. But the barn is still standing after 35+ years and other than the vinyl panels that disintegrated, the rest of the roof is still there.

Sort of like this:

The discussion at this site with the image above is about building a patio cover:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14420569