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[Walk away]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Walk away) on Sat May 7, 2016, 07:19 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[elleng]

1. No idea, but wishes.

[BrotherIvan]

2. I'm so sorry! I do hope you find some answers.

It's so stressful when your pet is suffering.

[BainsBane]

3. Poor little guy

I'm so sorry. He looks like such a sweetheart, and so cute.

[KC]

4. I don't really

know anything but did the vet run a culture
on the fluid removed? Could Toby ( my dogs name too) have gotten into any poison like rat poison or chemical? Did the vet check his heart as well!
Did they check his pancreas too? Have them check for a leak in his bladder too?
Are you comfortable with this vet because
fluid in the abdomen isn't something to take lightly! If necessary take him to
another vet or specialist?
I hope he will be ok!! Let us know how he is doing or if they find anything!

[Walk away]

9. No sign of poison and his pancreas and bladder are fine.

He has been to two different Vets and a specialist from Fairfield did his exploratory surgery. He has an appointment with the specialists at Animal Medical Center in NYC on Tuesday.

Believe me. We are not taking it lightly. In 2 days he amasses so much fluid that his entire underside is blood red for the strain on his blood vessels. I know that every drainage is depleting his protein levels.
It's heartbreaking because after he is drained he is a normal, healthy, happy dog until it starts again.

[KC]

63. Oh I know

you aren't taking it lightly. I can tell how much you love him. I guess I didn't word that very well, so I apologize.
Your Toby has the same sweet little face as my Toby( a Schnauzer) and I know how I'd be emotionally if it were my dog.

I hope the specialist will be able to find out what's going on with him!

[rurallib]

5. kick - best I can do - good wishes

[phylny]

6. I'm so sorry

to hear about this. One of our dogs had this happen a few years ago, but it was due to heart failure. I'm assuming they ruled that out.

Thinking good thoughts for your pup!

[Walk away]

10. Thanks. His heart is great. Everything else is fine.

It's so scary as they rule out causes and we have no way to help him.

[Voice for Peace]

7. try a second or third vet?

good luck with your boy

[marble falls]

8. He look so much like a 'mutts' charactor - I wish I knew what to do .....

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4764120471110300&pid=1.7&w=344&h=98&c=7&rs=1

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4650346810705420&pid=1.7&w=248&h=188&c=7&rs=1

I pray your little fellow gets well.

[Squinch]

11. Oh, he's georgeous. All I can do to help is kick and send all my good thoughts.

[evilhime]

12. I don't know where you are located

But I know the school of veterinary sciences (http://www.vet.upenn.edu/EmergencyServices247/tabid/1989/Default.aspx) will take questions and if you driving distance to Phila, it might be worth the visit. They helped my lab when no one else could figure out what was wrong... Good luck to you both!!

[Walk away]

32. Thanks. He is going to AMC in NYC on Tues but I am going to take your advise and...

call U of Penn tomorrow anyway.

[tpsbmam]

37. AMC is excellent

I'm an ex-New Yorker and AMC has treated my dogs in the past. It's a first rate teaching hospital -- totally keeping my fingers crossed that you and little adorable Toby find answers & a treatment plan you can take with you.

[Omaha Steve]

46. Hoping this trip works out

K&R!

[asjr]

13. Oh, how I wish I could help. If you have to help

him get rid of urine could there be a blockage somewhere in the urine tract? Did he have an ultrasound? Sometimes that shows up something an X-ray doesn't. He looks just like my dog Max who died years ago.

[Walk away]

34. Two ultra sounds and nothing. They can't even see where the leak or...

blockage is.

[KC]

64. Maybe a

CT scan?

[TBF]

14. So sorry to hear that -

when our dog got this (he was a rescue who had heartworm before we adopted him) the vet thought the heartworm had weakened his organs (not just the heart - we were treating for kidney failure as well based on the symptoms). At least when you know what it is you can come to terms with it. Reccing in hopes someone will see it and have info.

[truedelphi]

15. is he peeing and pooping regularly?

If not, how often... Also,how old an animal is your dog?

My experience is with elderly people, but some of it transfers to animals. Need more info though.

[Walk away]

30. He's 12 but otherwise active and healthy. He is pooping normally.

[truedelphi]

39. What is his swallowing of food like lately?

Has he been throwing up?

[Walk away]

58. Perfectly normal until he is completely bloated. nt

[truedelphi]

60. siliguts posting (below) of Dr Fiona's diagnosis is really invaluable.

That being said, (And the ailments presented by Dr Fiona are probably statistically more in keeping with what your doggie is going through) there is a very rare condition among humans, wherein the esophageal processes don't work right. A person will be able to swallow food, but then complain that "it doesn't feel right going down." And then when the food/fluid accumulates in the stomach, it ends up being thrown up.

The solution is very simple - it is simply a matter of a tiny bit of botox injection being aimed into the area of the esophageal passage which is overactive. Then the person can eat normally. (This requires a physician very familiar with where exactly the injection needs to go.)

Biggest problem is getting the diagnosis done and the condition resolved before the person has starved to death.

And of course your doggie can't complain about the food going down improperly.

[Curmudgeoness]

16. I cannot imagine what you are going through,

but this is very perplexing. Obviously, there is something serious wrong, because this sort of thing just doesn't happen. You are on the right track by taking him to specialists, and you have to just put it into their hands. I cannot guess what could be wrong since all tests are being done and nothing is showing abnormal. Best wishes.

[siligut]

17. I have seen ascites like that with portal hypertension in humans

But you say his liver is OK. Are you feeding him corn based dog food? If so, GMO corn can cause intestinal inflammation which can cause leakage of fluid.

I am so sorry Walk away, I wish you luck

[Walk away]

25. He eats Wellness dry with a spoon of Merrick's Grammy's Pot Pie so no corn. nt

[siligut]

38. Did you see this from Dr Fiona?

She responds to concerns about a beagle with ascites and is quite thorough. I know you have done so many tests and an exploratory surgery, but maybe maybe this will offer something.

http://www.justanswer.com/pet-dog/1q3sd-dog-diagnosed-ascites-not-know-underlying.html

[Walk away]

50. That's actually a lot of good information...

We have already ruled out tumors. His organs are all functioning normally and his heart is perfect. No signs of trauma or poisons and his poops are fine. If it weren't for the fact that every two days he fills up with fluids so full his abdomen will rupture if not drained, he would be a perfectly healthy dog.

[NAO]

79. I subscribe to "JUST ANSWER" primarily for the veterinary expertise -nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

18. kick

[liberalmuse]

19. Has his pancreas been tested?

Poor little guy. I hope you can find a vet who can help you.

[Walk away]

26. Yes, it's 100%. So is gall bladder, liver and kidney nt

[renate]

20. low levels of protein in his blood?

That can cause abdominal fluid in humans, anyway. But I'm sure he's been tested for that.

He is SO CUTE. Good luck.

[Walk away]

29. It's hard to tell because the fluid draining lowers protein levels so it's

a "what came first" situation.

[KC]

65. Did they

culture the fluid?

[Sancho]

21. What a cute face!

I don't know what's wrong, but hopes and prayers to Toby...

[Bibliovore]

22. Have you tried a specialist?

I'm sure your vets are good, but if they're having trouble finding what's wrong, can you take Toby to a specialist? If there's a good veterinary teaching hospital in a manageable driving range from you, it might be worth seeing if your vet could give you a referral to specialists there.

(Years ago, when my cat had been attacked by something and was leaking air under her skin, making her look oddly like the inflated animals in Shrek, our vet consulted with a feline pulmonologist at the nearest teaching hospital. I hadn't previously even known such specialists existed.)

Good luck to you and Toby. It's awful when a pet is not well, and even worse when nothing seems to be able to help.

[Walk away]

28. He's going to AMC in NYC on Tues. But he has been seeing specialists all week.

[JaneyVee]

23. Could it have eaten a poison? Like rat poison etc?

http://alexadry.hubpages.com/hub/Causes-of-Ascites-in-dogs

[Walk away]

27. no. That was the first thing they tested for. nt

[burrowowl]

24. K&R

[Texasgal]

31. Oh poor baby!

I can offer nothing except doggie hugs! Please keep us posted!

[Granny M]

33. K&R for the cute doggie.

I hope someone can help. Best wishes.

[Spirochete]

35. Wish i could do something

other than kick the post. Cute dog. I'm sorry.

[ReRe]

36. So sorry, Walk away

How old is Toby? Poor thing. After the operation, then going to the Dr every few days, road trips. He is not a happy camper. Hope they can figure out what it is soon. He sure is a doll. Be strong and take care of yourself too...

[Stinky The Clown]

40. My very best wishes for Toby and everyone who loves him.

The Liddle Ones are so precious.

[mopinko]

41. oh dear.

poor baby, and poor you. hope you get to the bottom of it quickly. wish i had a clue.

[meti57b]

42. May he be healed and may he have many good years ahead of him!

[BobTheSubgenius]

43. I am so sorry; I wish I had something more to offer than my best thoughts and wishes.

I am new at living with a dog. I "acquired" a Cairn when I got married, and, other than being blond, Ozzie looks very similar to your Toby.

Very sobering to me.

I never had a pet of any kind as a kid, so it's not second nature to me. It also leaves me with a paucity of knowledge that I am finding lamentable right now.

Again.....I am so sorry.

[Walk away]

47. So far this is stumping the specialists so don't feel bad.

I have had many dogs in my life and live through cancer, cushings, diabetes, addisons disease, thyroid conditions and several types of orthopedic problems with them but this threw me. At first I though it would be a simple tumor or obstruction, then maybe an injury that happened while I was out and didn't see.
The treatments are hard on him and every time we cross something off the list the prognosis is worse.

[drm604]

44. What is the fluid? Surely they've tested it.

Is it urine, blood, lymph, water?

[Walk away]

49. It was one of the first tests they did

<a href=".html" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt=" photo tobytests1_zps72b3586a.jpg"/></a>

[Doremus]

68. The words are indistinct.

Could you type the specific findings into a post?

I enlarged the photo as large as I could and still can't read it. THanks.

[Walk away]

100. Sorry. I don't have the hard copies I just took a photo with my cell.

There is a lot of blood in the fluids now. More every time it is drained.

[Walk away]

81. There is more blood in it every time it drains.

[Walk away]

45. Thanks for all the good wishes everyone. We really need them.

This all came about so fast. He was so healthy one day and sick the next. When he is drained he goes back to being a normal healthy little boy. This is just so scary. One Vet even said if he was a human he could have a colostomy bag and be fine but a doggie would pull it out.
He is being so good about the doctors and needles and hurts.

[siligut]

51. A colostomy bag?

Then there is some concern that the problem is his intestines? Please try him on a new food, I know Wellness is an excellent food, but you never know. And get some probiotics for dogs too. Poor baby Toby

[Walk away]

52. They just meant some kind of permanent drain.

he has been on probiotics since this started 2 weeks ago.

i was worried that the food change might give him the runs as his poops are usually perfect on this..What kind of food change?

[siligut]

53. I am happy to hear about the probiotics

Could you cook up something like brown rice and ground meat for a few weeks? There are vitamin supplements available to add to homemade dog food. I know there are specific dog foods for GI troubles, but I don't know enough and as I said before I am concerned with GMO corn.

Has he had the runs on other foods?

[Walk away]

55. No but he is 12 and been on the same food for many years. I just assume any change...

will cause some problems. I will ask the dietitian at AMC. I have the office # because I have another problem Doggie.

[siligut]

57. You have done everything else it seems

I can only hope that the dietitian will be able to help. I have worked with human gut troubles, and they can be tough to identify. Good luck, please keep us updated about how Toby is doing.

[msanthrope]

56. Never, ever give a dog brown rice. White rice, if any. nt

[siligut]

59. I had an old dog food recipe from a news letter

And they used brown rice. I did a search just now and some sites say that because a dog's GI system is shorter, the nutrients won't be absorbed. But plenty of sites say no such thing. Why do you say it is not good?

[Iwillnevergiveup]

48. Good dog

Walk away, I'm sure your persistence will pay off....I know Tuesday cannot come soon enough for you, and I hope the problem is quickly and accurately diagnosed. Please be back in touch with all the fellow animal lovers on this board. Kick, rec and cheering you on.

[blondie58]

54. this post brought tears to my eyes. What a cutie. i know this really hurts, but hopefully on Tuesda

This really hurts. Sorry, smartfone is acting up and won't let me fix anything.
Sending positive healing from Colorado.

[blondie58]

61. this post brought tears to my eyes. What a cutie. i know this really hurts, but hopefully on Tuesda

This really hurts. Sorry, smartfone is acting up and won't let me fix anything.
Sending positive healing from Colorado.

[Rhiannon12866]

62. What a heartbreaking post, wish I could send you to my vet

My friend had a pup who was diagnosed with a liver shunt and we were headed to Cornell, but found a specialist that was much closer, Pattersonville, NY. The vet there who examined/tested him was trained and had worked at Cornell. Not sure where you are, but here's the website. We were referred by my vet who really is the best I've known.

http://www.veterinaryspecialties.com/locationscontact-us/

Please let us know how Toby's doing. He's an adorable little guy and I hope so much you can find a solution for him. I adopt older dogs, so I do understand. That said, your Toby is so very fortunate to have you...

[glinda]

66. Sent you an email....

[Walk away]

70. Thanks. I am having trouble with the 2nd and 3rd links.

[glinda]

97. Hope your dog is still

hanging in there. Resent links.

[yourpicturehere]

67. Chylothorax?

I don't know if the vets have tested for this, but chylothorax is a condition where the chyle duct dumps the chyle into the abdomen. The abdomen and thorax will fill with fluid.

In the meantime, a little raw beef (stew meat, human grade) and K9 Immunity Plus. We have a dog with lymphoma, who has done the chemo, and is doing great. We fed him the K9 Immunity Plus and it really seemed to help with his energy level and his appetite.

I have a little experience with things canine, I have had Afghan Hounds for 38 years.

Good luck!

[Walk away]

69. Thanks. I'll ask the Vet about the chylothorax and the diet too. nt

[sinkingfeeling]

71. I'm so sorry. Sounds like your vets are doing all the things that would

usually show the cause of the ascites.

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/cardiovascular/c_multi_ascites#.UayeoRgo75o

[tosh]

72. Kick...

[AndyA]

73. I'm so sorry to hear about Toby

I wish I could offer some advice, but I have none. I will keep Toby in my thoughts and hope for a speedy diagnosis, treatment, and full recovery.

I know all too well how upsetting health issues with a beloved pet can be, I've been through health issues with my pets as well, and was deeply troubled.

Will keep you and Toby in my thoughts, please keep this thread updated so we know how Toby's doing. I will bookmark this thread.

[bucolic_frolic]

74. Inflammation from Food Allergy?

Inflammation is a generic cause of swelling. Doctors like to think
of specific allergens, and the medicines to treat them.

But inflammation can build up slowly until a crisis point is reached.

Could be food (wheat, sometimes), additive/preservative, mineral
(mercury, copper, lead, arsenic), chemical (pesticide, herbicide).

I'm not a doctor, but I've experienced a few of these to a lesser degree.

When the liver is "paralyzed" by inflammation or toxin, swelling happens.
Kidney's same story.

Hope this helps, or that it points in some positive direction.

[Walk away]

92. That's interesting, I'll ask.

When they did the surgery they saw some swelling in the Liver.

[mrsadm]

75. You could try Cornell University veterinary specialists

http://www.cuvs.org/index.php

Cornell has a very well known/respected veterinary school and research.

HUGS to your beautiful dog!

[hamsterjill]

76. Toby is one lucky pooch to have you as his advocate!

I am merely sending good wishes and prayers. I believe you are doing all that you can, and I sincerely hope that taking Toby to a teaching hospital will yield some answers.

It's hard, I know. But tenacity is important.

I don't know much about dogs' health issues, but we have seen an increase in fungal diseases recently in many of our rescued cats. I'm sure that your vets have already tested Toby for those.

All the best to you and Toby.

[patrice]

77. KICKING for Toby!

[Samantha]

78. Beautful dog

I am so sorry for his troubles. I hope to see a post soon about what his next tests reveal.

Take care,

Sam

[toby jo]

80. Poor guy. Ohio State Vet Hospital in Columbus is excellent.

Our buddy's got great people looking over him, at least there's that.

[nineteen50]

82. Antibiotics kill all the good and bad gut flora maybe

reintroducing the good gut bacteria will help.

[Phentex]

83. Just now saw this...

hope you get answers soon! HUGS to you and Tiny Toby!

[MissDeeds]

84. I am so very sorry

that you and your precious dog are going through this. He is so fortunate to have such a loving pet parent who will do anything, and spare no expense to save him.

Others have mentioned excellent university vet programs, so I'd like to recommend Kansas State University. They have a fabulous vet program and have really worked miracles. It's probably too far for you to travel, but you might ask to speak with one of their professor vets who could offer some ideas...maybe they would have you fax Toby's chart so they could evaluate it and offer a second opinion, or possible courses of diagnosis or treatment.

I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted.



MissDeeds

[Walk away]

85. *********UPDATE ON TOBY********

The Specialist Vet thought they would lose him last night. He is now stable and doing much better. He isn't filling up with lymph liquid and blood since the surgery (even thought they didn't find anything while he was opened up) so that's positive. He has become a study case. They haven't seen anything like this in a dog before.

Poor little guy will have to stay at the Vet's a little longer.

[spooky3]

86. thank you for the update--we are all keeping paws crossed for you and Toby.

[WoodyD]

87. Please keep us up to date

on how he's doing. I have to go give my two dogs ginormous hugs now. Sometimes it's easy to take their health for granted. Hope Toby's back to normal soon.

[Triana]

93. Fingers crossed for you and your furbaby. I SO hope he recovers!

Poor pup!

[Auntie Bush]

88. Toby is sooo cute! Poor little doggie. Hope they find a cause and a cure in a hurry.

Poor baby shouldn't suffer many more tests. He must be so scared...you too. Bless both you and Toby. May you both have strength to endure.

What kind of dog is Toby? I would love one like him next time I get a dog.
Just curious, How old is he? He almost looks like a puppy.

[Walk away]

90. Toby is a 12 year old Cairn Terrier.

Col. Potters Rescue is a well know Cairn Terrier rescue organization if you want to get you name on a waiting list. These little guys can never safely go "off leash". More Cairns die from being hit by cars than natural causes. They are usually good with kids (in fact they love them) and they aren't lap dogs. They are working dogs and will dig for hours to get their prey. They tend to be active, merry and tenacious.

[Auntie Bush]

95. Thanks for the info. He sounds a lot like my Jack Russell.

[cstanleytech]

89. Only thing I can think of is he ate or is eating something he shouldnt.

Try http://www.entirelypets.com/toxicfoods.html and go through the entire list and make sure none of the things listed is accessible to the dog both inside the home and outside like via the garbage.

[Walk away]

91. We haven't seen any signs in any of his tests and up until today his poops...

have been normal for the past 2 weeks. But that doesn't mean you aren't correct. We just can't find anything to indicate that it's poison, foreign object or food.

He hasn't been exposed to anything inside or out as both are "child proof" environments but anything is possible.

[KC]

96. He didn't happen

to swallow a penny did he? They contain zinc which is poisonous to dogs and cats.
Interesting about the allergies. I was really surprised about an article I read that said that beef is one of the things that dogs and cats are allergic to and that it was even more than corn.

[radhika]

94. Any bites from insects or lawn reptiles? In the stomach area?

Something acute happened, and it seems to have settled in...

So sad, such an adorable angel..

[spooky3]

98. Any update?

[Walk away]

99. He is starting to fill up again and he is uncomfortable.

The Vet says it might be the recovery from the surgery. I have a lot to think about today.

[spooky3]

101. thanks for the update. We will keep sending positive vibes your way.

[KC]

102. Poor baby

I just want them to find out what is causing this so he can be helped!

[Walk away]

103. I don't think that is going to happen.

We have exhausted every test and consulted many specialists. He has been so good but he is very tired. He needs some time to heal from the surgery and be loved.

[glinda]

104. You should give him every opportunity for help by posting to some

experienced Pet Groups and tell them what is going on.

[Walk away]

105. I have posted elsewhere but nothing different or new.

We're consulting with several specialists from U of Penn Vet School and AMC. He had a few good days this week but today was tough.

[ginnyinWI]

106. you have probably considered this, but

for what it's worth, when my 18 year old cat was dying of kidney and heart failure, his abdomen filled up with fluid regularly and had to be drained. The vet said it was his heart that was to blame. Just not strong enough to keep things going.

[Walk away]

107. Thanks, it's a good try and the usual cause for something like this but his heart is OK.

It seems there is either a leak or a blockage. Can you imagine that they cut him open from stem to stern and ran a dye through his system but still couldn't find where the fluid was coming from? They even caught cancer cells in the liver but not invasive enough to cause these problems. They removed them and gave him chemo so, if he makes it through this, he won't have liver cancer two years from now.
He was drained last night (it took over an hour) and he is filling up again. The good news is that there was a little less fluid this time.

[meti57b]

108. I am very glad to hear of that good news.......

....may it become even better news and hopefully in the next few days.