So is everyone neutering their male dogs later?

[milestogo]

I have a male australian shepherd who will be about 60 lbs. I plan to have him neutered. The first time I took him in, my vet said I should wait until he is 7-8 months. When I had a second appointment with another vet at the same practice, she said, wait till he is almost a year old if you can. This is especially true for large breed dogs. He is not a large breed dog.

He can stay at puppy daycare until he is 8 months old. (He is close to 5 months now.) After that there are no doggy day cares that will take an unneutered male, even for a few months till he is a year. Between 8-12 months he will need a lot of activity and socialization. So I think I have to neuter him at 8 months to keep him in day care.

So, what say you, DU? Has anyone else wrestled with this issue?

[pamdb]

1. dogs

All of our dogs have been rescue dogs so sometimes it's hard to tell their age.

Well, our first dog was a female pit mix (smartest dog we ever had) we adopted her at
about 5 months, according to the vet, and had her spayed at 6 months.

Our next dog was a lab/border collie that had been hit by a car and was in foster care before we got him. The guesstimate was that he was about 7 or 8 months old and he was fixed
as part of the adoption.

Our current dog was 3 or 4 and was intact. We got him fixed within months of adopting him.

Don't know if this helps, but Our vet seems to go with 6 months.

good luck

[Dustlawyer]

2. You should not wait so long.

Once the male dog starts getting the urge to hump he will keep trying to hump females even after being neutered. I got griped at by my vet for waiting too long. The poor female lab I got to keep him company was on the worst end of my mistake. At least until someone stole them from me.

[milestogo]

3. Its not just about the humping

There have been some studies published which suggests that early neutering correlates with hip dysplasia, bone cancer, and other health issues, especially in large breed dogs.

https://www.akcchf.org/educational-resources/library/articles/an-update-on-the-health.html

[True Dough]

4. Could have something to do with this:

"For small or medium sized dogs, the standard recommendation is still to spay/neuter the dogs between 6-8 months of age. For large breed dogs, however, the recommendation is to hold off until the dog is older to lower the risk of joint disease."

https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/musculoskeletal/what-causes-puppy-stop-growing#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20reason%20why,from%20the%20environment%20around%20them.

[milestogo]

5. Exactly.

I hadn't heard this till I came in with a new puppy. I would wait if I could, but he really needs to go to day care.

[Bayard]

6. I think you're safe doing it at six to eight months with an Aussie

I'm assuming your vet has checked to see if both testicles have already descended, or if there's a problem there. (they're usually in the right place by 2 months).

The breeds most vets advise waiting till they're a year old are the giant breeds, like Great Danes, St. Bernards, Great Pyrenees.

[milestogo]

9. thanks, yes the testicles are descended

It doesn't seem like all vets are talking about this, so there doesn't seem to be a consensus. But if I can keep him intact until 8 months, that will be good.

[Doreen]

7. I wait until 6 months. I want their body to mature enough

and their mental health. Neutering done to early can be the same as taking them away from their mothers and siblings. Their mental health is compromised. I have always tried to not take a pup from their mother and litter mates until 8 weeks. Those 2 weeks make a difference between when they are taken at 6 weeks.

[TDale313]

8. Interesting. I've mostly had cats...

And even getting them as kittens they were fixed before they were adopted. Last two were both males and them being neutered was included in the adoption process. Might wait a little longer on females, but I don’t think so. Certainly recommend as kittens and before they go into heat the first time if at all possible.

[Avis]

10. wait

I don't know about day care or how difficult your situation might be to keep your dog from intact females, but there is way too much pressure to just neuter dogs and think it has no effect on other things (joints and bones, weight, muscle, cancer et). For sure wait until fully grown, but if you could waiting for years is better yet, in older years helpful for aging boys. So much pressure to see everything neutered, from the public, the vets, and I suppose day care. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/opinion/dogs-spaying-neutering.html I think this has been sold as an easy fix that is good for the dog... but " Elsewhere in the world, spaying and neutering is not necessarily seen as the “responsible” thing to do. It is heavily discouraged in parts of Europe, such as Norway. Those countries also have very few stray dogs and a far less casual relationship with dog ownership.Jul 22, 2019" The Atlantic 2019

[Donkees]

11. You might research growth plate closure in Australian Shepherds on breeder sites

Below is just an average reference:

Growth plates gradually thin as hormonal changes approaching puberty signal the growth plates to close, and in most puppies, this is around the age of approximately 18 months old. At that point, the plates “close” because they’ve contributed all they can to the growth of the bones. The growth plate becomes a stable, inactive, part of the bone, but before then, the plates are soft and vulnerable to injury. An injury to the growth plate might not heal properly, nor heal in time for a puppy to grow up straight and strong. Such an injury can result in a misshapen or shortened limb, and that in turn can create an incorrect angle to a joint which can make the puppy more prone to even more injuries when he grows up.

But what about neutering a dog? How that that impact a growth plate?

Part of the responsibility of sex hormones is to regulate growth. When the sex hormones are removed, growth hormones are missing important regulatory input and the bones continue to grow longer than they ought to. Growth plates lay down bone as a puppy develops and, as it builds bone, the bone becomes longer and the puppy gets larger and taller. Once maturity is reached, this growth plate turns into bone and the puppy’s full height is reached. Most breeders can spot the difference between an intact dog and a dog neutered too young, and studies have proved it to be true (Salmeri et al, JAVMA 1991).

...

Chris Zinc DVM PhD DACVP said, “…if the femur has achieved its genetically determined normal length at eight months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle likely becomes heavier (because it is longer), and may cause increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament,” so now we have a connection to cruciate tears.

https://nationalpurebreddogday.com/before-you-do-something-permanent-know-about-growth-plates/

[milestogo]

14. Thank you.

[zeusdogmom]

12. I didn't neuter Zeus (black lab) until he was almost 2.

This was on advice of the breeder. His experience was one of waiting until the boys were fully grown. Bones, joints, muscles, etc all strong and stable. Hip issues almost non existent in those later castrations. Zeus has a strong, sleek body with no hip or other joint issues. He did hump his big stuffed gorilla until the “procedure”. Afterwards - never. And you can bet I made sure Zeus did not have access to ANY female dogs while still intact. For us it was the right decision

Zeus is 10 1/2

[Karadeniz]

13. Very interesting! I didn't know any of this!!! Thanks to everyone!

[milestogo]

15. Apparently this has been discussed for a few years, but if you didn't have a puppy

you wouldn't have heard it. The thing is, not every veterinarian brings this up. Probably because it depends a lot on the size/breed of dog, but also because there isn't a lot of data on it.

For me the idea that delaying neutering might prevent hip dysplasia makes it important. But it all depends on how much of a delay is practical. I depend on doggie day care to make sure my pup gets socialized so I want him to be able to go.