any tips on pack management? body language?

[mopinko]

so, i had a very happy little pack, 2 adult male dogs and a pup that the middle dog adored. they played endlessly. now she’s all grown up, and taking a shot at leader of the pack.

now, this is all my fault. i spoiled the hell out of that pup. she’s been so good, i almost didnt have a chance. 1st day she knew no, yuck, and had a perfect recall. i had almost zero teachable moments w this kid. she knew no so well, i never rly got a chance to teach her- oh hell no u dont.
middle dog is a sweet fellow who was an awful pup, and took a lot of work to make into a mostly rly good dog. but he’s food obsessed and has gotten guardy about it. i saw this building up. their play ramped up a lot, and i tried to break that up, and made it worse. of course.

he’s also twice her size, tho i think they’re pretty evenly matched.
i was feeding them in side by side crates, and noticed a while ago that he was glaring at her, making her nervous, causing her to not eat and yeah, vicious cycle commenced.
i put a divided btn the crates which helped. but i feed once a day, but pups get fed twice. i think this started it. the shit hit the fan when i started giving her breakfast in a food toy. his old food toy. it shd have made it a non-issue to feed them in crates, but i’m afraid it just made him guardy of his crate. he was never like that. i’ve moved his crate to an enclosed back porch. i’ve given him some extra chewies out there, but i suspect she smells them. every time she walks by, she has to check it out.

i’ve also let the 2 of them get away w fence chasing and barking out the window. his thing, she’s picking that stuff up. she gets a harsh correction now, and it’s sinking in.
he doesnt mind hanging in the yard or in his crate, and if i put the e-collar on him, i can stop his barking. i need to get a 2nd collar. my controller can run 2 dogs. anyone who winces when i say e-collar, dont. the og 1s were cruel and damaging. modern 1s arent. this 1 will do either a buzz or a tone. i start w the tone. like a remote clicker. it’s a very powerful tool.
it worked wonders w middle dog, pup is responding well, but we have a long way to go.

so there have been some scuffles, which i stepped on hard. i’ve been reading up and keeping them separated as much as possible. i’ve been working w pup, cracking down on her claiming behaviors, doing the obedience works she needs.
i’ve been working w her w an ecollar, which middle dogs is well trained on. it can b useful for this stuff, but they have to be well conditioned, or it can add to the chaos.
i cant keep middle dog out all the time, and it does seems to b shaking things up. but i cant do that forever. i feel like he’s gettin depressed, which isnt helping. so they do get time w all 3, but i feel like i’m sitting on a powder keg. big dog has given her the hardest cold shoulder i’ve ever seen. she’s tried sucking up to him. last night she was licking him, starting w his ears. he didnt seem mad, but not pleased either. eventually he growled at her. she went in the crate. he went out. but it seemed like a submissive gesture. not?

big thing i’m looking for- body language tips. ie, was she licking him to suck up, or to ‘claim’ him, like she does to me sometimes. she def tries to b as close to me as she can, not just sitting by me, but leaning in. i’ve backed that off, but…

once i get her healing decently, i’ll work on joint walks. that shd help. they get along ok in the yard, neutral territory, and i’m trying to work on training both there on recalls and stays. but i worry about treats. i try to make a show of- 1 for u, 1 for u, and no dont even think of trying to snatch it. is this helpful, or no?
i’m wondering about putting him in his crate, her outside, so everyone is safe, and tossing bits of leftover turkey super fairly. or will that just ramp it up?
it’s clear there is a shuffle going on, and i’m not sure how i can put my finger on the scale or if i shd.
what little things let a dog know where they belong in the pecking order?

up side is that she’s getting a lot closer to the other boy, her ggreat uncle. he’s a grumpy old man. he’s been unimpressed w her up til now, but the 1 on 1 time they’re getting is cooling that down.
i’ll get her started w 2 dog walks w him, as he’s a peach who barely needs a leash.

it’s all just so weird. middle dog was an absolute monster of a pup who grew up to b a good boy, and this girl was a perfect pup who is now a most obnoxious adult. le sigh.
it’s rly breaking my heart. my dogs r all i have these days. i hate that i cant trust them.

thoughts or tips?

[FalloutShelter]

1. Just a thought...

YOU are the pack leader. When the pup goes after your older male, you should discipline her like a pack leader. Put her on her back and squeeze her ribs lightly while making direct eye contact and speak the command to her, then let her up.

This is called the “wolf roll.” I raised a half wolf hybrid i on n my small pack and it worked perfectly. Check out a book by the monks of New Skete called- How to be your dog’s best friend. They extensively cover pack dynamic. It’s where I learned the wolf roll.

Just my experience, but it has worked for me.

[mopinko]

2. i'm torn btn the monks and ed frawley from leerburg.

i havent read the monks, but my daughter did, so i have a fair idea. they’re somewhat diametrically opposed, but i do appreciate ed’s experience. he raised military dogs, and knows dog aggression inside out. he gets so many letter about dog bites, but he doesnt hear much about happy packs. so he doesnt appreciate things like the power of sleeping together. he’s just all avoidance, no dogs on the furniture, esp the bed, etc.

that’s a great tip. she’s just started even showing her belly, which i took as a good sign.
i’ve started doing a lot of the other stuff i know, but dont always practice. like, i’m 1st through the door, and u sit and wait to b fed. i know about rolling them over, but not squeezing their ribs.

thx much. i do know my mission here is to b the absolute ruler. i’ve done it before. i’ve had as many as 5 dogs at once. i’ve only had a couple rebels.
but this pup. she’s 1 in a million. i know the work will b worth it. she’s my 16th dog, my 12th puppy. unless i fuck this up, she’ll b the best.

[FalloutShelter]

3. All good.

If she is showing her belly, you are more than halfway there.
Best of luck.