Seems like magazine capacity in the conn. shooting was a practically a non-issue.

[virginia mountainman]

Lanza changed magazines frequently as he fired his way through the first-grade classrooms of Lauren Rousseau and Victoria Soto, sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots from a 30-round magazine, sources said.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/newtown-sandy-hook-school-shooting/hc-sandyhook-lanza-earplugs-20130106,0,2370630.story

Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter used 10 rnd magazines in his shooting spree...Changing magazines take less than a second for experienced shooters.

[Scuba]

1. So we can assume your recommendation is to ban everything right down to single-shot 22's?

[virginia mountainman]

13. My recomendation is..

To shut the hell up about gun control, as it is making Democrats un-electable in the vast majority of the nation. If the powers that be want any hope of regaining the congress, they better realize that they are grabbing at a tiger's tail. Talk of registration, and confiscation will only insure electoral defeat in most of the US.

Gun Control to Democrats is what Abortion and the Drug war is to Repukes...

[DanTex]

18. In other words, you have no problem watching massacre after massacre...

It doesn't matter how many innocent people die, just don't touch dem gunz!

[iiibbb]

21. I assume you mean the innocent people who can't defend themselves?

Like my friend who used a gun to stand off her violent husband who had threatened to kill her? Note-- she didn't have to shoot, she just suggested he leave.

Or my friend who was assaulted by 3 people with knives on a highway when he had car trouble? Again, without firing a shot.


These innocents?

[Starboard Tack]

127. Did your friends need Ar-15s and hi-cap clips to scare their would-be attackers?

Right, I didn't think so. A six shooter would have sufficed just fine, or a taser, or probably a can of mace or pepper spray.
The innocents referred to were the children at Newtown, the teachers at Newtown and the folk who went to watch a movie in Aurora.

[iiibbb]

128. That's true... but when I happen to be armed it's for feral dogs...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=101306

and I do think a 15 round magazine is warranted for my circumstances.


When everyone being shot at is unarmed, magazine size probably doesn't make a difference.

[gejohnston]

129. a taser against three people?

or pepper spray?
the taser is one shot, assuming it isn't a contact weapon. Mace has its own problems as well.

[krispos42]

75. Sometime this year...

... a psychotic lone wolf is going to walk into a school and kill a bunch of people before killing himself.

There are 132,183 public and private grade schools in the US.

We don't know who, we don't know what day, or what time, or what school.


So your best solution is to... try to disarm everybody in the hopes keeping this one guy from getting a gun?

[Ed Suspicious]

102. How about we limit access to guns while at the same time

stigmatizing gun fetishisation? Your solution to shut up and take our medicine with a side of fear is bullshit.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

19. This will make "Democrats un-electable in the vast majority of the nation". Well said.

Why are the anti-gunners disregarding this?

Are they all unaware of the 1994 elections?

Einstein is credited with providing a definition of insanity as

doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

[Loudly]

22. Like losing the South by supporting racial equality. n/t

[Glaug-Eldare]

26. Big difference:

14A guarantees equal protection. The civil rights movement fulfilled a guarantee that had been long ignored.

2A guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. The gun control "movement" seeks to begin ignoring a guarantee that has been long fulfilled. At least, for whites it has been. Kind of a weird intersection there.

[Loudly]

41. The Bill of Rights guarantees a bundle of genuine rights which (your) 2A contravenes.

How can there be a Constitutional right to the means of depriving anyone of ALL their genuine rights at the whim of a shooter?

Sorry, but that's not what the 2A was for, and it is entirely moot now anyway. Two reasons:

We have a professional military now.

~ and ~

The American Civil War decided the question of whether armed resistance against the government is ever legitimate in this country. It is not.

[Clames]

45. Tired and worn out argument that carrier no weight in this debate.

Professioal military has no bearing on the 2A. You obviously have no clue to the Federal laws that govern the use of the military on domestic soil. 2A isn't going anywhere, get used to it

[Glaug-Eldare]

46. Where's the contravention?

Nobody is claiming that the 2A confers a right to trample on other people. The right to possess things which can be criminally misused does not remove the criminality of that misuse. My GENUINE right to keep and bear arms is not a license for me to violate the genuine rights of anybody else.

The existence of a standing federal army does not obviate the usefulness of an armed citizenry, nor is the right to keep and bear arms conditioned on it.

As for Lincoln's war, you are reading far, FAR too much into it, because you want to believe in the dignity of a bureaucracy elevated above and separated from the people. The war did not settle the question of whether armed resistance against the government is ever legitimate -- it settled the question of whether the Confederate States of America could withstand the military/industrial power of the Union. If, God forbid, the federal government, or even a state government, becomes so perverted that it compels the people to replace it by force, nobody will give a damn if the despots cried, "but Lincoln won! You can't shoot us!" I believe I quoted some excerpts from the MD Constitution last time you argued that might makes right.

[Loudly]

54. Are you claiming that people's genuine rights are sufficient to protect them from your 2A?

If so, then I think it's you who are making the "might versus right" argument.

Of what use are people's genuine rights when someone is vested with some superior imaginary "right" to the means of extinguishing them with the pull of a trigger?

Due process for twenty dead schoolchildren? Their killer killed himself. Problem solved, case closed.

Furthermore, it's not up to you and a band of your buddies to decide who is despotic and who needs killing. That's what the Covenant of Appomattox is all about.

[Glaug-Eldare]

58. Have I said that the 2A makes me a public official?

Or that it gives me some license to do harm? I have no right to hurt somebody on my own say-so. If I try, use a weapon against me, call the police, bar the door, but make sure I get punished. Nothing in the 2A says that I am suddenly an aggressive gunman that everybody else needs to be defended against. If you think it does, then you're an idiot. There are numerous ways you could kill me, but I don't blather on about how you're a menace that needs to be controlled to protect my GENUINE RIGHTS.

Also, just out of curiosity, whose decision is it whether a government is despotic? Who granted Washington and the Patriots the right to make that decision? Who granted the Celts the right to fight the Romans? Who granted the Maya the right to fight the conquistadores? If the U.S. were to adopt the Italian fascist model of government, would I need to petition the Congress for permission to overthrow it and restore a democratic republic?

[Lizzie Poppet]

130. Rights protect nothing.

Rights are cognitive constructs. They have absolutely zero direct effect on the tangible world, and instead only effect us via people acting on them. Enforcement of those rights by people who will not stand for having them abrogated is what confers protection. When there is a lack of general consensus as to what those rights are and are not, there is inevitably conflict. In this particular matter in this particular society, there is nothing even resembling consensus, particularly on the matter of whether the RKBA does indeed conflict with other rights. I have little hope that this matter will ever be resolved save via (physical) conflict.

Or, perhaps, by a relatively peaceful fragmentation of the nation...

[Starboard Tack]

70. Plus, 2A makes no mention of guns. Just saying.

I say let them flail their arms all day long.

[Straw Man]

110. Wrong, as always.

How can there be a Constitutional right to the means of depriving anyone of ALL their genuine rights at the whim of a shooter?

There is no constitutional right to commit murder. Murder has many means, but the end is always illegal.

Why are you still here? You are the banned zombie formerly known as SharesUnited. Your foolish memes have not gotten better with age.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

28. Ordinary people of all races and in all regions inherently support the natural right to self-defense

[Puha Ekapi]

34. Yep

[flamin lib]

103. Where in the 2nd is self defense? Oh, thats right Scalia "Corporations are People"

put it there! So much for original intent and texturalism . . . .

[Glaug-Eldare]

108. Self-defense isn't exempted from the RKBA,

and "in defense of themselves and the state" is common element of state RKBA articles, so I think it's safe to include self-defense with firearms as one of the activities it protects.

[friendly_iconoclast]

111. Feh- genetic fallacy; do you also reject United States v. Jones?

Scalia wrote that as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Jones_%282012%29

United States v. Jones (2012)

United States v. Jones, 565 US ___, 132 S.Ct. 945 (2012), is a 2012 Supreme Court of the United States case regarding government's installation and prolonged use of a Global Positioning System (GPS) tracking device[1] . Without a warrant, the government installed a GPS device on the suspect's car and continuously monitored the suspect for 28 days.[2] Although the Court asked parties to address whether "the warrantless use of a tracking device on respondent's vehicle to monitor its movements on public streets violated the Fourth Amendment," the Court's ruling was narrower than its question presented.[3] On January 23, 2012, the Supreme Court unanimously held that "the Government's installation of a GPS device on a target's vehicle, and its use of that device to monitor the vehicle's movements, constitutes a 'search'" under the Fourth Amendment.[4] The court did not address whether such a search would be unreasonable and therefore a violation of the Fourth Amendment.[5]

Although the court unanimously agreed on the judgment of the case, the justices split 5-4 about whether to consider governmental trespass upon private property when determining a Fourth Amendment violation or to solely rely on whether the government violated an individual's "reasonable expectation of privacy." Justice Antonin Scalia delivered the majority opinion of the Court, viewing the government's actions of installing a GPS device as a trespass on private property, thus constituting a "search" when combined with that device's monitoring (Roberts, J., Kennedy, A., Thomas, C., and Sotomayor, S. joined)

I love to post that-it's like kryptonite to Scalia haters!

[flamin lib]

114. Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then. nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

115. BTW, the ACLU supports Citizens United...

[Kolesar]

79. It's incomplete and basically full of shit...eom

[AnotherMcIntosh]

82. Here's what Garrison Keillor said, and he didn't need to use any vulgarities to say it:

“I think gun control is an issue that we can no longer afford to be seen as standing in favor of,” Keillor says. “Gun control means something so different in Manhattan than it means in the country. There’s no way for the Party to take just one stance. It’s way down the list of important issues, and I think that we Democrats are too emotional about this. We get all dizzy at the thought of people buying assault weapons for example. I don't think assault weapons should be legal, but I don't think it's anything to lose sleep over. There are a few thousand gun fetishists who like to put on camo (XXXL) and stand around holding guns and get their pictures taken, and they're fairly harmless for the most part, and in our revulsion at them we piss off twenty million hunters. Gun control laws tend to reflect an urban point of view — in the big city, somebody with a gun is weird and dangerous — and as liberals we ought to be reluctant to let city people lord it over rural people. If Uncle Elmer wants to keep a machine gun on his farm west of Yankton, let him keep it. There are bigger problems.”

When bank robbers roamed the streets of my old neighborhood of North Hollywood with semi-automatic weapons, gun control seemed like a gigantic problem. But given a choice between gun control and a living wage, I think I’d opt for economic justice over passing laws to deprive Uncle Elmer of his firearms fetish — especially if losing Uncle Elmer’s vote meant losing another election to a GOP/Halliburton conglomerate.

http://www.nathancallahan.com/garrison2print.html

Prior to the Supreme Court's overturning of Chicago's gun ban, he also said:

We were planning to cancel the show today to protest Chicago’s tough gun control law but then the U.S. Supreme Court overturned it in the case of McDonald v. Chicago, ...
http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/programs/2010/07/03/scripts/male.shtml

[Kolesar]

86. Ok, then the kids will just have to die I guess

/sarcasm

[AnotherMcIntosh]

90. The first AWB didn't stop the Columbine High School shootings.

[Kolesar]

93. Need better restrictions, then! ... eom

[Straw Man]

118. A clarification.

When bank robbers roamed the streets of my old neighborhood of North Hollywood with semi-automatic weapons, gun control seemed like a gigantic problem.

The North Hollywood bank robbers used several full-automatic weapons, actual military weapons that were extremely illegal from the get-go. On top of that, they were both convicted felons who could not have legally owned any firearms at all.

[samsingh]

31. it is not. i think most people support some form of sane gun control

[virginia mountainman]

33. Ok, than why don't they vote on it?

Why does the NRA have well over 4 million DUES PAYING members, and the Brady Bunch can only manage about 50 thousand on a free mailing list?

Why has gun shows nation wide, have had incredible amounts of people showing up and they are throwing thousands of dollars down to by rifles? And yet, only one or two protesters are outside??

This is a dire warning for Democrats. After all, all the ads the NRA ran during the election, is being proven correct.

[samsingh]

35. 4 million people is far less than the voting population

[virginia mountainman]

36. You assume that all gun rights advocates, belong to the NRA..

You should not assume such things...

[samsingh]

52. good point

[Kolesar]

80. That's incomplete and basically full of shit also...eom

[friendly_iconoclast]

113. What he said is factually correct, whether you like it or not.

Truth is not dependent upon palatability.

[Scuba]

48. You're suggesting that without the votes of NRA members Obama would have lost? Yeah, sure.

[spin]

74. Obama never faced a truly pro-gun Republican in his two races for President. ...

Obama also was very friendly to gun owners during his first term.

I don't feel that gun control played any real role in this recent election although it was somewhat important in the Obama's first run. However in the first election voter disgust with Bush the Younger was far more important that any other issue.

I predict that a another watered down version of he Assault Weapons Ban might pass in the next year, however many of the dreams of the gun control movement will fail. It is possible that the manufacture of gun magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds for sale to civilians might once again be stopped. I doubt there will be any attempt to gather up all such existing magazines.

Federal gun registration of all firearms is extremely unlikely but there is a slim possibility that a requirement might pass that some evil looking semi-auto rifles be registered. I see absolutely no hope of banning the future sales of all semi-auto firearms to civilians or any ban on the sales of semi-auto handguns such as the Glock pistol to civilians.

Obama's task force will come out with proposals for a sweeping new gun control law which will have considerable support from the media. This only makes sense as it is wise to start any bargaining process with a strong proposal as more room exists for compromise. If you don't ask for much you don't ever get much.

On a positive note I do see the possibility of improving our NICS background check system and requiring it for the sale of all firearms including private sales and transactions. I also foresee stronger penalties for the straw purchase or smuggling of firearms. It is also possible that our mental healthcare system might be improved to make it far more responsive.

What I fear the most is that our party will push hard for truly draconian gun laws and the 80,000,000 gun owners and voting age members of their families will show up at the polls in the midterm election and the next Presidential election to vote Republican. This will result in many good Democrats who actually are pro gun rights losing local, state and national elections. The Democratic Party will have once again shot itself in the foot.

Of course I could be wrong. Time will tell.

[Kolesar]

81. "our party will push hard for truly draconian gun laws " that is incomplete...

...and you pretend that you never saw any of the proposed regulations. That's pathetic since you are such a "gun expert" and advocate.

So, your post would be described as incomplete and full of shit.

[spin]

98. So you know all of the proposed regulations that will be made Biden's task force ...

before they have come out.

Perhaps you have a crystal ball and know how to use it to predict the future or perhaps you have inside information that I don't have access to.

You also edited my post to leave out a few important words. You quoted me as saying:
"our party will push hard for truly draconian gun laws "

What I said was:

What I fear the most is that our party will push hard for truly draconian gun laws and the 80,000,000 gun owners and voting age members of their families will show up at the polls in the midterm election and the next Presidential election to vote Republican.

Some well known and some not so well known Democrats have suggested what is in my opinion draconian gun laws although you might consider them to be entirely reasonable.

Cuomo Says He’ll Outline Gun Proposal Next Month
By THOMAS KAPLAN
Published: December 20, 2012

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said Thursday that he had started discussions with leaders of the State Legislature about new gun control measures, and that he planned to propose a package of gun legislation in his State of the State address on Jan. 9.

***snip***

In the interview, Mr. Cuomo did not offer specifics about the measures he might propose, but, while discussing assault weapons, he said: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=0

Illinois Democrats Lose Bid to Pass Firearms Confiscation Bill, But Is It Over?
January 3, 2013

Democrats in the Illinois Senate have failed to gain enough support for legislation that would have outlawed 50 percent of long guns on the market in the state and would have confiscated weapons owned by citizens.

On Wednesday, we reported that Illinois Senate President John Cullerton planned to introduce a draconian bill that would have effectively banned all modern firearms, criminalized their owners, and subjected their guns to confiscation by the Illinois State Police.

***snip***

Following the failure today, Democrats pledged to reintroduce legislation outlawing the Second Amendment. “We will take some time to work on these important issues to advance them in the near future,” Cullerton’s press secretary, Rikeesha Phelon, told reporters.

Illinois governor Pat Quinn has indicated he will push for outlawing semiautomatic weapons this Spring.
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/illinois-democrats-lose-bid-to-pass-firearms-confiscation-bill-but-is-it-over/

Rural Caucus chair: State should ban, confiscate semi-automatic guns
By Douglas Burns

12/26/2012

State Rep. Dan Muhlbauer, D-Manilla, says Iowa lawmakers should ban semi-automatic guns and “start taking them” from owners who refuse to surrender any illegal firearms through a buy-back program.

***snip***

Muhlbauer, who did not list the specific weapons he wants outlawed in the interview, said he would like to see the ban implemented in a retroactive fashion.

“Even if you have them, I think we need to start taking them,” Muhlbauer said. “Because if they’re out there, they’re just going to get circulated around to the wrong people. Those guns should not be in the public’s hands. There are just too many guns.”
http://www.dmcityview.com/2012/12/26/rural-caucus-chair-state-should-ban-confiscate-semi-automatic-guns/

Now I don't believe that any of these ideas have a snowballs chance in hell of ever becoming law. I am worried that the NRA and other gun rights groups might use such statements to try to convince gun owners that ALL Democrats are gun grabbers and to show up at the polls to vote against ANY Democrat even if he has a strong record of supporting gun rights. If a large number of gun owners decide to join the NRA because they fear that their considerable financial investment in shooting sports might be in danger, the NRA membership could easily double or triple. If you consider the NRA to be a formidable foe today imagine how strong it could become and the power it could exert with donations from the new members flowing into its coffers.

[Scuba]

87. But what about the NRA's constant warning that Obama was "gonna take yer guns"?????

You're saying the NRA is just a paper tiger????

[spin]

95. There is a good reason that only 4.5 million of the 80 million gun owners ...

belong to the NRA and that is because many gun owners simply do not believe all the NRA propaganda and get tired of getting requests for donations in the mail.

[Dr_Scholl]

105. Nothing will pass, period.

Not with the Republicans in control of the House.

They've caved on issues before, but it's extremely unlikely that gun control will be one of them.

[spin]

106. I hope you are wrong as I feel our current gun laws could be improved while ...

still protecting gun rights guaranteed under the 2nd Amendment.

Time will tell.

[Dr_Scholl]

107. Don't get me wrong.

I'd support universal background checks for all private sales and better access to mental health treatment, but I wouldn't support any kind of AWB or magazine ban.

[spin]

109. I agree. (n/t)

[brew987]

126. Agree 100%

[Starboard Tack]

67. Thankfully, very few will follow your recommendation.

You seriously believe we should all shut up because it is easy to quickly swap clips on a semi-automatic. You are presenting the best argument for banning such weapons. As you point out so well, banning them is the only way to save lives.

[intaglio]

76. Thank you for your concern

I'm sure that the majority of Americans who see that some element of control is necessary will find your comments enlightening.

Please feel free to take my words out of context and loose your remaining credibility.

[samsingh]

32. that would be good

[phantom power]

2. then nobody will mind if we restrict them all to 10 rounds, or better yet 5

[generalhh]

6. assuming their only purpose was to go on a killing spree

assuming their only purpose was to go on a killing spree.

however for the rest of us responsible gun owners why should be placed at a tactical disadvantage to a threat(s).

Remember felons already cant have guns or ammo so what makes you think they will follow magazine size restrictions
.
the majority of all non suicide gun deaths is criminal on criminal and often times the shooter is a felon and already bared from possessing a gun.

Things like Newton are tragic in a unique way but are extremely rare. I am not saying we ignore them I do say we need to look at what causes a young man to do these kinds of things. The answer I admit may never be known. But it is obvious these men had sever mental defects. What can we do to help these young men before they go off the deep end? What can we do to restrict their access to guns.

keep in mind that Assault weapons are used in a very small number of gun crimes most gun crimes are hand gun related and criminal vs criminal with innocents caught in the cross fire.

[phantom power]

7. you don't have a tactical disadvantage, since you can change them so fast

right?

[generalhh]

63. do you know how un practical caring 2-3 5 round mags for a hand gun is?

Most modern 2004 a newer full size handguns have 15-19 rds (9mm) and 10-16 rds .40 cal) .
While the most popular handguns are small compact 380 - 9 mm pistols like the S&W Shield in 9mm that holds 7 rounds or 8 rounds.

The police carry 1 15 round glock 40cal magazine and 2 additional 15 rd. magazines on their person if not more.

It could be argued in a situation like a home invasion the presence of multiple attackers increase the chance of harm to the victims. check out this link.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/police-hiding-woman-shot-during-fairburn-burglary/nTmk3/

[virginia mountainman]

10. According to FBI data..

In 2011, their was only ONE murder committed with (a)rifle of "all types" in Connecticut ..

[Bonhomme Richard]

12. Anyone that seriously thinks they need more than 10 round magazines to protect....

themselves here in the States is delusional to say the least.
Tactical disadvantage? Give me a break.........and I am holding my tongue.

[virginia mountainman]

14. Don't hold it..

Newspaper have no problem printing that NRA members should be murdered, so why should YOU hold your tongue.

[iiibbb]

23. I carry a 15 round magazine in my Glock

because there are packs of feral dogs in my hunting areas. I don't carry a spare magazine with this gun; my hunting rifle is just a single shot, so not the most viable standoff weapon with dogs.

[tridim]

53. Your first thought upon seeing a stray dog is to kill it?

Wow.

My first thought is to find it a home.

[Glaug-Eldare]

55. Wow, talk about a disconnect.

Ferals are not the ones you see makin' eyes at you in the ASPCA commercials. He's not talking about a lonely-looking sad old pooch left by the dumpster behind Chili's because Ernie didn't want him anymore -- he's talking about large packs of wild, completely undomesticated animals. They can be extremely dangerous. They travel in groups, are sometimes aggressive, and are powerful creatures. You don't wander up to a pack of nine wild dogs and start calling 'em cute widdle fuzzy wuzzums. They kill.

[tridim]

56. So just kill em, no questions asked. That's just fabulous Glaug.

You should be so proud of yourself.

Yes there is a disconnect, it's somewhere between your brain and your fucking trigger finger.

[Glaug-Eldare]

57. iiibbb did not say "shoot on sight."

If he's hunting in an area where there are dogs, it is prudent for him to maintain the option of shooting them IF they present a threat. More often than not, dogs and humans prefer to avoid each other. A lot of animals do. All the same, wild dog attacks are not a fantasy. They occur, and there is a body count. It is not a matter of iiibbb walking out into the woods to go slaughter Air Bud in cold blood -- it is about him needing the means to protect himself in that unlikely but real chance that he is attacked by a pack of wild dogs.

[WinniSkipper]

148. Where do you live?

You obviously have NO IDEA what these two are talking about when they refer to feral dogs. With feral dogs - you, your family, pets or livestock are the hunted. They are (can be) extremely dangerous

[iiibbb]

71. The simple answer is, "No"

The long answer is don't be silly. I wouldn't shoot them unless I felt they were going to attack me. I would attempt to dissuade them by other means if possible. The gun is only if they call my other bluffs.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

In St. Louis, a 10-year-old boy was attacked and killed two years ago by a pack of stray dogs. Police Chief Ron Henderson told the St. Louis Post Dispatch: "They were feeding off this kid. I've seen over 1,500 bodies but I've never, never seen anything like this. Nobody has."

[rainy]

60. I've never heard of dogs attacking hunters and

that still doesn't make the case for high round guns.

[iiibbb]

72. You've never heard of it... remarkable.

Why do I think you've never tried to hear of it.

I certainly don't care what you determine is the proper way for me to deal with an issue, any more than I would trust you for medical advice.

At any rate. I don't intend to be the first you have heard of.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

"In St. Louis, a 10-year-old boy was attacked and killed two years ago by a pack of stray dogs. Police Chief Ron Henderson told the St. Louis Post Dispatch: "They were feeding off this kid. I've seen over 1,500 bodies but I've never, never seen anything like this. Nobody has."

[rainy]

77. Oh I guess the kid should have had a 15

round clip and a semi automatic on him the stray dogs might be an issue but more guns and automatic weapons are probably not the answer.

[iiibbb]

91. don't be an ass

It is a legitimate concern, and simply prudent for me to carry a handgun if I'm going to be out in those woods miles from anywhere by myself at that time of year.

The fact that people can take a legitimate concern and throw it in somebody's face why gun owners don't think people mean "reasonable" when they use the word "reasonable gun control"

[pkdu]

153. We have a different version of events in this report...but RKBA never seems to post this newer one

Why s that?

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/10/17/are-wild-dog-packs-roaming-north-side/

[iiibbb]

155. doesn't matter

my circumstances are the same. More than a mile from my car, by myself, in forests where there are dog reports. That story was only to illustrate that dogs have potential.

Now, you can downplay the risk to rationalize some inflexible need to prove me wrong to justify to yourself the claim that "nobody needs....." but the fact is my need is fundamentally reasonable and not the raving fantasy of a gun fetishist

[pkdu]

156. Or you can (and others ) can chose to (up-play) it.

I live at the very edge of town , where street becomes mountain ...with Coyote and even mountain lion. ....OOO, scary shit eh?

[iiibbb]

157. coyote are not a concern. Mt lion would be

Dogs are not either of those things.

but you are home. You have other people there, and you can make whatever choice you want. I'm not here to tell you how to deal with issue.

I am alone, away from civilization, and it is dogs. You falsely assume that my plan is to go straight to the gun.

You're like a Republican telling a woman her ovaries will shut right down if she's raped.

Get off your high horse.

[iiibbb]

158. Coyote break into house in Chicago suburb

Yup... coyotes... totally predictable

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/26/16707745-coyote-pack-chasing-pets-smashes-door-of-home-in-chicago-suburb?lite

[pkdu]

159. Yup....and all he had was a BB gun!

[iiibbb]

160. But you made a specific claim about the docile nature of Cototes that was wrong.

You can't change your story like they did with WMD's in iraq...

Right Wing War Hawk
1) ohhh WMD's
2) ohhh overthrow a despot

You
1) ohhh Coyotes are not going to bother anyone docile
2) ohhh he only needed a bb gun


not to mention the fact my concern is still about dogs, not coyotes, and dogs are more than willing to attack humans.

[apocalypsehow]

161. Oh, lookee here! Yorick has arisen!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=105760

[Bonhomme Richard]

66. My 9mm came with two 17 round magazines.

Do I believe that I, or anyone here in the States, would ever be in a situation that I would need that many rounds.....no.
There seems to be a major disconnect with reality and imagination runs away thinking of possible scenarios. I'm of the opinion that ten round magazines are more than enough to protect yourself from wild dogs. If you are really afraid then bring two.

[iiibbb]

73. I don't care about your opinion. I'm the one dealing with the situation and you're at your keyboard

thinking you know what you're talking about.

5 dogs

15 rounds, 3 rounds per dog if needed; since the scenario is not predictable at all.

15 rounds, and bring 1 mag, seems about right

[Kolesar]

84. maybe you should stay in the house or in the library if you are so fearful...eom

[iiibbb]

92. Not fearful, just prudent.

Kind of like a lot of precautions people take. I am miles from anywhere and in a place where the consequences of a fuck-up or accident can be quite severe. It has nothing to do with being fearful.

You might as well go tell rock climbers that if they're so scared of falling they might as well throw their ropes away and stay at home.

[virginia mountainman]

11. You can try..but it simply is a box with a spring...

And millions are in wide circulation..So good luck with that.

They are "very" common. Heck even I have several.

[phantom power]

51. Then you're a good person to ask: why do you own them?

Every time the subject comes up, there's this argument that 30-round magazines "don't make any difference." And yet people invented them, and manufacture them, and spend money on them.

[virginia mountainman]

64. Ok, I will tell you why

I have a few rifles, that do, "traditionally" use 30 round magazines.

Firstly, and foremost, folks may chose what to use, and we chose that, this is not up for anyone else to decide. And frankly, could not care less. (not trying to sound like a smart ass answer to your serious question, i cannot come up with a softer way to word it )

I own them, because they where DESIGNED to be used in that rifle (reliability). many of the "modified" 10 round magazines have serious reliability issues. I experienced this first hand during the first AW ban, when I bought the Semi-auto AKM, yes, it was made, and sold, during the last ban)

Secondly, I keep a couple loaded, because my wife, prefers that rifle (the one that uses them) when I am working late at night, and she is home with our kids. She is very comfortable with the rifle, and is very well practiced with it. About 15 years ago, she had a drunk, smash through the door into our home, when I was gone. She met him in the kitchen with this rifle, and he instantly surrendered and started pleading for his life. She was forced to go on the offensive, due to the fact that our newborn baby, was asleep in her bed in the other end of the house. She had to wait for half an hour for the Police to arrive. I want my wife to have the maximum amount of rounds in the rifle, she uses to defend herself, and my kids with. Again, I do not care what a politician with armed guards "think" is best for me and my family.

She was like an angry tigress protecting her kitten's, she knows what to use for claws. I think to declaw cats is a horrid thing to do I will not allow her to be declawed. To be honest, at this point, I don't care about any law changes, we will not be disarmed. I can assure you that many people have the same view I do. Yes, I will turn on politicians that betray me, I did it in 1994, I will do it again.

My personal preference is for a other firearms, but she is completely comfortable with that old semi-auto AKM type rifle, and she knows how to use it. when i am home, and if things was to turn bad, I would reach for a old, Lee Enfield carbine that I keep for just such a purpose. It is not even a semi-auto, it is a bolt action. but I am completely comfortable with it, and I prefer (and need) much more power than the semi-auto AKM offers.

[gejohnston]

16. simply pointing out there is no

valid argument.

[Twister7096]

42. Knee jerk thoughts

assume that the size of magazines is limited, so for some reason he limits himself to a single magazine of 5 or 10 rounds with a semi-automatic pistol. Under these circumstances, this lunatic can only butcher ten people. Do you feel better? I can assure you that the families of the five or ten victims will not feel very good at all.

[Kaleva]

3. As they are so easy to change, there is no reason to argue against limiting capacity to 10 rounds

[virginia mountainman]

9. Yes, because what is special about 10 rounds? Why such an arbitrary number?

[Glaug-Eldare]

24. Because paint is just cosmetic,

there is no reason to argue against limiting houses to gray.

You don't ban things, particularly things protected in the US Constitution, because "we might as well." You need to show that the restriction is tailored to an actual, as in not imaginary, public interest. 10+ magazines are not aberrations. They are the norm. You need to explain to me why, if such a ban does not increase public safety (as you are saying in the post above, and I can only assume you believe), it makes sense to criminalize the sale of standard-size magazines and replace them with bizarre, arbitrarily limited ones.

Put another way,

As they are so easy to change, there is no reason to argue for limiting capacity to 10 rounds. As there is no reason to argue for limiting capacity to 10 rounds, it should not be done.

[kudzu22]

68. The magazine capacity matters in combat, not in slaughters

If you're using your weapon for self-defense, presumably someone is posing an imminent threat to your life, and the magazine change is a disadvantage.

It does not matter in a spree-killing scenario, because nobody is shooting back. The two seconds to change magazines makes no difference to the body count.

[sylvi]

100. Thank you

I was about to post the same thing before reading your post. The tactical disadvantage lies with the person defending themselves in a combat situation, not with a murderer taking their time in a place filled with unarmed people.

[Lizzie Poppet]

131. By the same token, no reason to argue FOR it, either.

If such a law will accomplish nothing, it should be rejected.

[cantbeserious]

4. Why Does Any Hunter Or Marksman Need Anything More Than

A bolt action rifle?

[virginia mountainman]

8. Who are you to decide what someone "needs"?

[iiibbb]

25. Where I hunt there are packs of feral dogs.

My hunting rifle is single shot, but the handgun I carry has 15, and I don't carry a spare magazine. I hunt miles from my car with no easy access to help.

[Twister7096]

44. Why ask why

Why does the tax code need more than 10% contribution? But to answer your question in times of tyranny as we are entering there will come a time (just as they did many moons ago) when more than one gun grabbing liberal will attempt to confiscate my weapons. What took place in New Orleans during Katrina is a perfect
Example.

[Glaug-Eldare]

47. The phrase "gun grabbing liberal" rubs me the wrong way.

We're all liberals here...right? No need to use the word like it's an insult.

Hopefully I'm hearing something that's not there -- I'm used to epithets like "libtard" and "obamunist" elsewhere.

[cantbeserious]

133. What Did take Place In New Orleans - My Memory Is That The Police Indiscriminately Killed Refugees

eom

[gejohnston]

134. that too but

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[79][80] Even U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, armed with M16 assault rifles, were used for house to house searches, seizing firearms and attempting to get those remaining in the city to leave.[81]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms
BTW, Blackwater goons hired by rich people were allowed to keep their guns.

But that order apparently does not apply to hundreds of security guards hired by businesses and some wealthy individuals to protect property. The guards, employees of private security companies like Blackwater, openly carry M-16's and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said that he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/national/nationalspecial/08cnd-storm.html?pagewanted=all

[cantbeserious]

135. This Is The Reason We Have A Regulated Militia Called The National Guard

eom

[gejohnston]

136. national guard isn't militia

and I take it you are saying people should not defend themselves? Oh wait, they were working class and poor who couldn't hire Blackwater. So, they don't rate.
for what? Notice that those people were not committing acts of violence nor were they doing anything wrong. I don't get your point.

[cantbeserious]

137. Beg Your Pardon - National Guard Is State-Based And Citizen-Soldier Militia

eom

[gejohnston]

138. which is trained and equipped by the federal government

and has two civilian CiCs, the state governor and the POTUS. It is a type of militia, but not a state based. When I was stationed at McConnell, the KANG had B-1 bombers. WTF would they use them for? Or KC-135 tankers for that matter? While it is known as a select militia, it is not a truly state based militia.

WTF does it have to do with violating people's fourth and fifth Amendment rights? and why didn't the State disarm the Blackwater thugs hired by rich people? You seem to be avoiding that point.

[cantbeserious]

139. Don't Plan To Split Hairs With You

eom

[gejohnston]

140. OK just answer me this

WTF does it have to do with violating people's fourth and fifth Amendment rights? and why didn't the NOPD disarm the Blackwater thugs hired by rich people? Why are not bothered by the fact that the NOPD did not disarm the private security?

[cantbeserious]

141. I Think You Know The Answers To Those Questions Already; Go Ask The NOPD

eom

[gejohnston]

142. acutually we had a couple of gun control advocates

one of them Canadian that would be quite fine with it. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are as appalled as I am.

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. I was going to reply then decided that it is.....

a waste of time because the fanatics really believe that there is no gun problem in this country.

[Eleanors38]

15. Why do you want to limit mag capacities?

[rightsideout]

17. Yea, kind of thinking of the same thing

I don't really see the point in creating laws limiting magazines to 10 rounds. You can still kill people and inflict significant damage with 10 rounds and reload. But I guess if you can make it illegal to own 30 round magazines it's something.

I've fired Berettas at the local range and they have 10 round magazines although I think there is one that has 8.

But I can't realistically see making 10 round magazines illegal. The uproar would be huge. Many homeowners who use guns for home protection wouldn't like it because it can take several bullets to stop an intruder so 10 is a good number for those people.

At the same time, people can still go whacko with 10 round hand guns and inflict alot of damage. Then you have alot of suicides from guns. I lost my best friend in Jr High from a gun his father kept for protection.

I fire guns at the local range and skeet shoot but don't personally own one and wouldn't keep one in the house. They still creep me out.

Not to be funny but I keep thinking of Mayberry Sheriff Taylor when he insisted Barney keep one bullet in his pocket.

[jimmy the one]

20. How to buy 30 rd mags, by anders breivik

virginia mountainman: .. sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots from a 30-round magazine .. Seems like magazine capacity in the conn. shooting was a practically a non-issue.

C'mon readers, you falling for p.t. barnum's trickery? gonna just sit there & let him get away with it? suckers a minute?
.. uh, mtn man, the blurb says 'sometimes' shooting as few as 15 shots, which implies that 'more' often he fired most of the 30 rounds in each clip. So wheee, mtn man thinks he's cornered the clip argument because lanza 'sometimes' only fired 15 rounds.

.. he fired approximately 150 rounds during the shooting spree.
Investigators are aware that frequent reloading is common in violent video games because an experienced player knows never to enter a new building or room without a full magazine so as not to risk running out of bullets. This has led them to speculate privately that this might be a reason that he replaced magazines frequently.

now that latter is something that makes sense. He didn't want to discard bullets, just felt he needed a full clip for each new room, yuck.

va mtn man: Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter used 10 rnd magazines in his shooting spree...Changing magazines take less than a second for experienced shooters.

Maybe cho sometimes didn't fire off all 10 rounds from his, eh?
But anders breivik did have 30 rounders, & he got the record I think, & guess where he got his 30 rd clips?

1,500-page manifesto by Anders Breivik detailed how he used lax U.S. gun laws to help arm himself before killing 76 people in a gun and bomb attack in Norway... Breivik easily acquired high-capacity ammunition magazines from the United States.
The sale or transfer of high-capacity magazines made after 1994 was banned under a federal assault weapons ban that went into effect that year but expired in 2004. Such magazines would be prohibited from manufacture or import if her bill, HR 308, were passed and signed into law.
.. Breivik's manifesto described his purchase of 10 30-round ammunition magazines from a U.S. supplier who mailed the devices to him.. Under a section of his manifesto titled "Rifle/gun accessories purchased," Breivik wrote: "10 x 30 round magazines - .223 cal at 34 USD per mag. Had to buy through a smaller US supplier as most suppliers have export limitations… Total cost: 550 USD."
http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201107280012
Breivik wrote that he failed to acquire certain weapons illegally in the CzechRepub. "I have now sent an application for a Ruger Mini-14 semi-auto rifle. It is the most 'army like' rifle allowed in Norway, although it is considered a 'poor man's' AR-15. I envy our European American brothers as gun laws in Europe sucks in comparison."

I'll bet sometimes anders didn't empty each 30 round clip, too.

[gejohnston]

40. he was also on an island 90 minutes away from police response

he could have had crossbow and done the same damage.
So, why didn't Norwegian customs catch the magazines?

[ileus]

27. magazine limits = Camel nose

give them an inch and they'll take everything.

Once mag limits are proven ineffective a preventing nutbags from misusing firearms it'll be semi-autos, then pistols, then anything with a cylinder, then devices with triggers.

Some won't be happy until we're all willing victims.

[Glaug-Eldare]

29. Would be nice if we could trust each other.

The pro-control folks keep saying "nobody's going to take your guns," but then they consistently refer to mag bans and AWBs as "a good start." I'm not an idiot. I know what end that "start" leads to. I've seen that movie before, and it's my job to make sure the Fudds, paper punchers, nurses, and shopkeepers realize that we're all in this together, and unless we all fight for each other, nobody's gonna be left to fight for us.

[virginia mountainman]

37. exactly...NT

[bowens43]

30. Exactly, the problem isn't limited to high capacity magazines. Guns are the problem.

We need a near total ban on hand guns, assault weapons and especially ammunition. Ammunition access should be limited to licensed hunters and should only be available in limited quantities during the season they are licensed. All shells/rounds should have to be accounted for before more can be purchased.

[virginia mountainman]

38. LOL!!!

[Puha Ekapi]

43. How is a hunter...

going to practice and maintain competency with his rifle? To go hunting and not be well practiced is unethical, and it takes regular practice to maintain proficiency.

[ileus]

62. Meat is murder too...

[jimmy the one]

39. feral dogs & feral teds

mtn man: Newspaper have no problem printing that NRA members should be murdered, so why should YOU hold your tongue.

You have a link to this? about shooting nra members? I'd like to see what you're saying in the original text, Mr Barnum.
Hey, didja hear of this veiled threat, from an nra board member, ted nugent?:

{ted nugent} went on to tell a crowd {apr2012} that "We need to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in November" and said that "If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year."
...while brandishing what appeared to be two assault rifles, Nugent said, "hey Obama, you might want to suck on one of these, you punk," adding, "hey Obama, he's a piece of shit, I told him to suck on my machine gun." He went on to say "'hey Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless b**ch." He also said Sen Boxer "might want to suck on my machine gun," adding Sen.Feinstein, "ride one of these you worthless wh*re."

iiib I carry a 15 round magazine in my Glock because there are packs of feral dogs in my hunting areas. I don't carry a spare magazine with this gun;

How many feral dogs did you shoot last year? how many in total, all years? Have you ever emptied your magazine while walking out there? don't you USUALLY return home with no bullets expended (from your glock)

generalHH: Remember felons already cant have guns or ammo so what makes you think they will follow magazine size restrictions

This is only partially true; thanks to the nra, felons can have their alleged 'gun rights' restored, after a time period & perhaps paying a fee. NRA lobbied HARD for this restoration of felons gun ownership right, in the firearm owners protection act of 1986 (FOPA). (Violent felons convicted of murder, armedrobb,aggrasslt not included).
Even guilty killers who get off on technicalities, or not convicted but convicted of lesser felonies, could get gunrights 'restored'.

[virginia mountainman]

49. LOL

"Make ownership of unlicensed assault rifles a felony. If some people refused to give up their guns, that “prying the guns from their cold, dead hands” thing works for me."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312300033&gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

Just to be clear, I really don't care what YOU, are anyone else thinks...

[frylock]

99. you still compiling that list of feral dogs you've killed?

must have been a lot.

[virginia mountainman]

104. Nope, just a couple the past 6 months....

The livestock are a source of livelihood...

[Puha Ekapi]

50. The leader of the...

...Democratic Party in Texas said this:

"Can we now shoot the NRA and everyone who defends them?"

http://www.examiner.com/article/democratic-party-leader-call-to-shoot-nra-members-not-a-death-threat

[iiibbb]

112. Thankfully I have never had to kill any dogs.

But that doesn't mean they don't exist out there, and it also doesn't mean that feral dogs have the potential to cause me harm.

Why is it in every one of these challenges do anti-gun people think the damn thing needs to be fired, or that one actually has to have personally been involved in an attack, for a gun to justified (and even then it isn't). It is freaking idiotic. Responsible people do not view guns as something that needs to be used; they just view them as something that may be needed.

http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/FeralDog.asp

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=4871902

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

http://survivalscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/surviving-wild-dog-attack.html

They are not something to be trifled with. Note that I'm not demanding all dogs in the United States be killed in order to prevent feral dog attacks.

Another problem that I may reasonably encounter could be a rabid animal. I was in fact petitioned by a local on my return to a car to shoot a rabid raccoon for them, but by the time we got where it had been sighted it was gone.

Your argument that I need to have actually shot a dog is as stupid as saying a woman needs to actually have been raped before she may legitimately be concerned about it.

[mikeysnot]

59. Good argument to get rid of ALL gun multi bullet magazines.

Revolvers for home defense and single bullet hunting rifles.

Thanks for the info!

[virginia mountainman]

65. ok, how are you going to do it??

What if the people that have them say "NO" and "F off"???

[Puha Ekapi]

69. It will be time to...

...polish up the jackboots, kick in doors, and immediately send the non-compliant to a public execution, according to a couple of posters around here.

[rzemanfl]

61. This place has become "Democraticgunsaround." n/t

[Kolesar]

89. too bad this crap ends up on our "latest" page ... eom

[rzemanfl]

97. It also seems like whenever I log on I end up on a DU jury about some

NRA poster with a post count under ten.

[dkf]

78. Wow...from your link

Investigators are aware that frequent reloading is common in violent video games because an experienced player knows never to enter a new building or room without a full magazine so as not to risk running out of bullets. This has led them to speculate privately that this might be a reason that he replaced magazines frequently.

[Kolesar]

83. Which contradicts mountainman's agenda to make huge clips widely available

I expect he will repackage this shit message and send it up on DU again in a few days. That's what the chair occupants do.

[Glaug-Eldare]

85. What are you sitting on?

"I hope you're sitting uncomfortably, be it on your sofa, armchair, or beanbag if that's how you choose to live your life." -Garth Marenghi

[dkf]

88. Then they just retrain using smaller clips.

It's almost muscle memory.

Video games turned Lanza into a pretty efficient killer.

[Straw Man]

119. No, it doesn't.

Investigators are aware that frequent reloading is common in violent video games because an experienced player knows never to enter a new building or room without a full magazine so as not to risk running out of bullets. This has led them to speculate privately that this might be a reason that he replaced magazines frequently.

Which contradicts mountainman's agenda to make huge clips widely available

Reloading is easy for a spree killer who faces no opposition. It is much harder in a scenario where the person doing the loading is under attack.

Magazine capacity limits favor the mass murderer and hinder crime victims in their efforts at self-defense.

[gejohnston]

94. most of the spree killers, including the one in Norway

were serious gamers, I mean the like the character in Eff the Sun
http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858774271/

[jmg257]

96. Yep agreed - why we need to outlaw all repeating arms without fixed magazines, if

the purpose of such gun control is to reduce these incidents of mass murder/multiple victims.

[villager]

101. well a non-issue to you. From your posts, we know that all gun violence victims are "non-issues"

...as long as you can keep clutching your toys.

[iiibbb]

116. Always to the clutching...

Why is it in every one of these challenges do anti-gun people think the damn thing needs to be fired, or that one actually has to have personally been involved in an attack, for a gun to justified (and even then it isn't). It is freaking idiotic. Responsible people do not view guns as something that needs to be used; they just view them as something that may be needed.

http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/FeralDog.asp

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=4871902

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

http://survivalscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/surviving-wild-dog-attack.html

They are not something to be trifled with. Note that I'm not demanding all dogs in the United States be killed in order to prevent feral dog attacks.

So I carry a handgun when I hunt because my single shot hunting rifle would not be effective.

There is not clutching here. It is a prudent step given the distance I am from help, and the length of time I spend out in the woods when I'm hunting.

[villager]

120. It is odd how "clutching" is one of the few words that accurately...

...describes the desperation with which the pro-gun violence crowd will defend their toys, regardless of how much wet blood is on the floor....

[gejohnston]

121. I don't know

I find appeals to emotion and sophomoric personal attacks rather enlightening. Please continue.

[villager]

122. well, anything that enlightens the "guns uber alles" crowd...

...is bound to be a good thing!

[gejohnston]

123. Schusswaffen über alles

Google translate is cool.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uber%20alles

Bound to be a good thing? Something tells my you missed the point. The one thing I miss about the bay area was listening to KPFA at work. My bossed listened to KFSO. Interesting two years.

[iiibbb]

124. Peace to you my faceless, willfully obtuse friend.

I explained in hopes that when faced with a scene outside of your own experience,that you would behave as a normal, rational human. I did not realize I was dealing with the intellectually dishonest.

[villager]

144. "Peace" and then the insult.

Well, that's the pro-gunner psychology in a nutshell - bullet casing? -- I guess.

[iiibbb]

145. and "clutching" isn't an insult?

[villager]

146. You would know best -- you used it first!

[iiibbb]

147. False

"101. well a non-issue to you. From your posts, we know that all gun violence victims are "non-issues"

...as long as you can keep clutching your toys. "

[villager]

149. Hmm. Fair enough. I was going by the headers.

But at least I didn't start out by wishing you "peace" then circling back around for the insult.

At a minimum, try to be consistent!

[friendly_iconoclast]

117. Speak for yourself-"we" know no such thing...

[jody]

125. Hercules may have cleaned the Augean stables but he couldn't handle the posts in this thread. nt

[virginia mountainman]

132. *chuckles Yep Jody, rather amazing display isn't it?

The longer this goes on, the more certain I am that the pro-civil liberty side will win.

[NYC_SKP]

143. But everyone will feel so much safer if we ban SOMETHING!11!!

Your logic is going to really kill the buzz of some of the gun-fetishists.

I mean those fetishists who support confiscation.

Fetishism and fanaticism exist on both sides.

[Duckhunter935]

151. He also had these, but we cant regulate them

In searching the house, police discovered that Lanza had thousands of dollars worth of violent video games.

[azxsqw]

152. High cap mags

Do half of you posters know the difference between a magazine and a clip? Anyhow, magazine cap limits isn't anything a NY reload will stop....

[Clames]

154. Big yawn really.

I don't have the time to dig it all up on govtrack but she's tried to push a AWB on a virtually annual basis since 2004.