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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 03:32 PM Mar 2013

Made in the U.S.A.: The Role of American Guns in Mexican Violence

As many as 120,000 people in Mexico have been murdered since 2006, many from a bullet to the back of the head. Most of these killings are committed not with assault rifles, but rather pistols and revolvers. Many are perpetrated by hit-men tied to narco-cartels, but some occur in confrontations with soldiers and police. What's more, the majority of guns causing mayhem on Mexico's streets are made in the United States. And for all their destructive power, no one seems to know just how many firearms are flowing into the country.

Mexico can hardly be described as a heavily armed society. With around 2.5 million registered gun owners and at least 13 million more illegal arms in circulation, the country has a ratio of just 15 guns for every 100 people, well below the global average. Unlike in the U.S., civilian possession in Mexico is considered a privilege, not a right and is tightly regulated under federal law since the 1970s. Extensive background checks are required of all purchasers, and there are heavy penalties and even imprisonment for non-compliance. Astonishingly, there is just one legal gun shop in the country, compared to more than 54,000 federally licensed firearm dealers and thousands of pawnshops and gun shows scattered across the U.S.

Yet in spite of tough gun laws in Mexico, the proportion of killings committed with firearms skyrocketed from around 20 percent in the mid-1990s to 50 percent in the past few years. What explains the sudden rise in gun violence?

A big part of the problem resides not in Mexico, but in the U.S. In an economic study conducted by the University of San Diego's Trans-Border Institute and the Brazil-based Igarapé Institute, we estimated the volume of firearms annually trafficked across the US-Mexico border. Drawing on data from the Bureau for Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, we hypothesized that if the volume of the trade was significant, it would contribute to the total demand for firearms (and retailers) near the U.S.-Mexico border.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/03/made-in-the-usa-the-role-of-american-guns-in-mexican-violence/274103/
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gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
1. of course it forgot a few things
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 03:58 PM
Mar 2013

none of those weapons in that picture can be found in US gun shops, including the vintage M-16. It is also the only one of US manufacture. What the article forgets to mention, assuming its information about how many US guns are being used, cold war left overs, US and USSR made, being smuggled through Mexico's southern border. Many are also government sales being "redirected". They are not being straw purchased in gun shops, unless we are talking about otherwise law abiding Mexicans who are arming themselves because the police and the cartels are often the same people.

I suggest the writer read the Mexican Constitution, specifically Article 10, and the article's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico
One question, how did they estimate? What methods did they use?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2011/0708/Mexican-cartel-leader-claims-gang-buys-all-its-guns-in-US

Given the money and resources, why don't the cartels simply make their own like Australian drug gangs?
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/22/1090464799535.html?oneclick=true

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
2. The drug-cartel Mexicans
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 04:10 PM
Mar 2013

are killing each other and civilians and cops and army personnel and the problem is the U.S. supplies them with guns? The problem is a porous border. I would guess that many of the guns used in these crimes are also made in Europe as well.

Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

dookers

(61 posts)
3. Another big factor is corruption and desertion.
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 04:30 PM
Mar 2013

The Mexican army loses an average of 10,000 troops a year to desertion. Often these soldiers will take their service weapon with them and sell on the black market. Mexican cartels don't need the US to supply weapons to them. They're a billion dollar industry and can procure whatever they want.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
4. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of federal gun control.
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 04:47 PM
Mar 2013

"With around 2.5 million registered gun owners and at least 13 million more illegal arms in circulation, the country has a ratio of just 15 guns for every 100 people, well below the global average. Unlike in the U.S., civilian possession in Mexico is considered a privilege, not a right and is tightly regulated under federal law since the 1970s. Extensive background checks are required of all purchasers, and there are heavy penalties and even imprisonment for non-compliance. Astonishingly, there is just one legal gun shop in the country, compared to more than 54,000 federally licensed firearm dealers and thousands of pawnshops and gun shows scattered across the U.S."

Kind of sounds like our war on drugs. Hopefully registration, 100% background checks and increase penalties for straw purchases would help Mexico, without creating such a market for illegal arms here.



 

premium

(3,731 posts)
9. That country's only gun store is owned and operated by the Mexican Military.
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 06:48 PM
Mar 2013
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/28/AR2010122803644.html



MEXICO CITY - In all of Mexico, there is only one gun store. The shop, known officially as the Directorate of Arms and Munitions Sales, is operated by the Mexican military. The clerks wear pressed green camouflage. They are soldiers.


The only gun store in Mexico is not very busy.

To go shopping for a gun in Mexico, customers must come to Mexico City - even if they live 1,300 miles away in Ciudad Juarez. To gain entry to the store, which is on a secure military base, customers must present valid identification, pass through a metal detector, yield to the security wand and surrender cellphones and cameras.

To buy a gun, clients must submit references and prove that their income is honestly earned, that their record is free of criminal charges and that their military obligations, if any, have been fulfilled with honor. They are fingerprinted and photographed. Finally, if judged worthy of owning a small-caliber weapon to protect home and hearth, they are allowed to buy just one. And a box of bullets.

Pullo

(594 posts)
5. "majority of guns causing mayhem"
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 06:10 PM
Mar 2013

Yep, it's the guns causing the mayhem, not the narco-cartels.

If you were really so concerned with all the cartel violence in Mexico, I would think you'd want to focus your time and energy into ending the war on drugs. Seems to me that go a lot further in reducing gun violence, on both sides of the border, than restricting firearm ownership in the United States.

apocalypsehow

(12,751 posts)
10. Yes, it is the gun lobby's success in keeping U.S. laws and regulations among the weakest in the
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 06:54 PM
Mar 2013

civilized world when it comes to guns - if not the weakest - that allows tens of thousands of illicit firearms to flow south across the border. Just as the gun lobby and it's NRA shills & sycophants don't give one hot-diggety-damn about the mayhem and bloodshed their scummy little hobby causes here - think of the callous and disgusting "we're gonna keep our guns!!!" sentiments expressed right here on DU in the hours and days after Sandy Hook by our very own "RKBA enthusiasts" - they care even less when it's just a bunch of poor folks down in Mexico (see sig line).

Toughen the gun laws here, and the cause and effect will help stem the bloodshed down in Mexico, sure as the day is long. Another good reason to keep supporting President Obama's gun control efforts and electing more Democrats to Congress.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
13. Bwahahahahahaha....
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 10:49 PM
Mar 2013
Toughen the gun laws here, and the cause and effect will help stem the bloodshed down in Mexico, sure as the day is long.



Bullshit...





And he actually believes that too....

bossy22

(3,547 posts)
14. yes, cause gun control in the u.s.
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 11:24 PM
Mar 2013

will stop multi-billion dollar criminal enterprises from acquiring weapons.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
12. Is any of that covered in...
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 10:24 PM
Mar 2013

..."Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence."???

Does Mexico have a Second Amendment?

Maybe it should go here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1108

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
15. Article ten
Tue Mar 19, 2013, 12:03 AM
Mar 2013

although I would like to know their amendment process.

In 1971, Article 10 of the present Constitution was reformed[11] to limit the right to keep arms within the home only (in Spanish: ...derecho a poseer armas en su domicilio...) and reserved the right to bear arms outside the home only to those explicitly authorized by law (i.e. police, military, armed security officers). The following year, the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives came into force[12] and gave the federal government complete jurisdiction and control to the legal proliferation of firearms in the country; at the same time, heavily limiting and restricting the legal access to firearms by civilians.
As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens, unless explicitly authorized by the Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA). For purposes of personal protection, firearms are only permitted within the place of residence and of the type and caliber permitted by law.

IIRC, the change in the constitution and the current law had something to do with pissed off poor people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrarian_land_reform_in_Mexico#1970_and_statization

melm00se

(4,972 posts)
17. let's read the article with a critical eye
Tue Mar 19, 2013, 08:58 AM
Mar 2013
In an economic study conducted by the University of San Diego's Trans-Border Institute and the Brazil-based Igarapé Institute


which they conveniently don't provide a link to so that study (nor the title for the study so it can be searched out) can be evaluated for methodology and bias. the casual reader is just left to take their word for it.

we hypothesized that if the volume of the trade was significant


We conservatively estimate that about 2.2 percent of total demand for U.S.-sold firearms originated south of the border between 2010 and 2012.


it is the equivalent of an annual average of 252,000 guns crossing the border


Note all the conjecture in this article. Words like "hypothesized", "estimate" and "equivalent" indicate that the authors don't really know but they are, in effect, guessing. The authors, as noted above, provide no hard data to back up their assertions. They are hoping that the reader just nods, takes their words as gospel and agrees with their conclusions.

What this means is that the U.S. is a significant, albeit unintentional, contributor to the global black market in arms and ammunition in Mexico.


as they are guessing, this immediately calls their conclusion, quoted above, into question.

then of course there is this:

With last week's announcement of a bipartisan deal outlawing straw purchasing of firearms


this quote infers that "straw purchases" are, in fact, currently legal when, in reality, they are already illegal under, at the very least, federal law. A nice little subtle misdirection used to manipulate the uninformed.

Having said all of this, I did hunt down the study itself and did a quick survey of it.

The authors of the study focus on the availability of firearms in the USA but do not appear to consider porosity of the US/Mexico border. In my opinion, addressing the latter would have a larger effect on smuggling (people, drugs, firearms, whatever) without infringing on the rights of the majority of Americans. Additionally, the authors focus in on the trafficking of firearms from north to south but ignore the potential of firearms flowing from south to north from Mexico's southern neighbors where the availability of items like automatic weapons and grenades are significantly higher than here in the USA (especially given that American Central American policy has been one of arming one group or another in an effort to combat the expansion of "socialist", "communist" or other groups hostile to American interests.

Finally, the authors' solution to the problem (increasing laws/regulations on firearms transfer) appears to address only one aspect of America/Mexico cross-border illicit trade. A far better recommendation (and one that would impact more than just firearm trafficking) would be:

1) increase border security. this would help curtail smuggling (regardless of product or persons) across the US/Mexico frontier.
2) increase prosecution of not only the straw purchasers but also the retailers who do violate federal firearms statues and regulations

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