Five Reasons the NRA Won the Recent Gun Control Debate That Have Nothing to Do with Politics

[gejohnston]

An interesting read. While I'm not a fan of the NRA leadership, have to give credit where it is due. What I would like to see is the more moderate IFOA do something similar without starting infighting among the gun rights crowd.
This one IMNSHO could be the key element

3. Volunteers Who are Intrepid in “Showing They Know”

As I reviewed their interview notes for this blog post, I came across something startling. In each and every one of the interviews, with Shaun, Mike, and David —– they exhibited the same behaviors when influencing up that none of my other interview subjects did. It’s as if they had their own “code,” their own methodology for advocating with lawmakers. They knew more about current gun laws, and the constitutionality of them, than the legislators and in one case the law enforcement officials they were trying to persuade (and they did persuade them, by the way).

One of them took on a committee of state senators, a majority of them who were against a proposal. He received a call from his state lobbyist about a half-hour before a major piece of legislation was to be debated in Austin. He immediately headed to the State House to testify. As he told me, “I was able to refute, point by point, 9 aspects of a proposed state law which showed it was unconstitutional and only aimed at law abiding gun owners. I could tell I was successful when I saw how angry my own representative was with me. The key is, Amy, we know the law better than the legislators.” Whether you like it or not, the NRA volunteers know their stuff. They are well trained and intrepid when it comes to explaining their point of view.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/amyshowalter/2013/05/16/five-reasons-the-nra-won-the-recent-gun-control-debate-that-have-nothing-to-do-with-politics/

One more thing, what's this about Rahm going out of his way to recruit pro gun Democrats?

[BlueJazz]

1. Throw out common sense, past behavior and the majority of the public well being, you...

..can make a case for just about anything.

[gejohnston]

2. Albert Einstein put it best

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." and nothing else.

the problem with "common sense" is that it has nothing to do with criminology or sports and recreation. Since criminologists have known for over 100 years that 90 percent of murderers have criminal records (as do most of their victims), which stop them from legally obtaining a gun, that most of these laws will do nothing.

http://mddall.com/sbss/0311.htm

[rdharma]

3. Wonder why this RW PAC consultant would speak so glowingly of the NRA PAC strategfies?

I wonder what she's trying to sell?!!!!

And look who bought it and brought that RW propaganda to the DU.

http://www.showaltergroup.com/what-we-do/clients.php

PS - She also wrote several articles on how Romney was using a winning campaign strategy. How did that work out for her?

[gejohnston]

8. genetic fallacy

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/genetic-fallacy.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
Her client list doesn't include the National Rifle Association, but it does include:

AAHP/HIAA
American Academy of Audiology
American Academy of Neurology
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry
American Academy of Podiatric Medicine
Girl Scouts of the USA
National Audubon Society
Wyoming Tobacco Use Prevention

Wow, those are some really reactionary forces. I guess the Audubon Society wants to legalize DDT and the WTUP Coalition is a arm of the tobacco industry, oh wait.
http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2013/01/16/news/01top_01-16-13.txt
Edit to add

If you want, it works both ways.
Poll: Coalition Releases New Poll of NRA Members Showing Strong Support For Common-Sense Gun Laws

July 24, 2012 - Mayors Against Illegal Guns released the findings of a recent survey by GOP pollster Frank Luntz showing that NRA members and gun owners overwhelmingly support a variety of laws designed to keep firearms out of dangerous hands. The survey’s key findings include that 87 percent of NRA members agree that support for Second Amendment rights goes hand-in-hand with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, and 74 percent of NRA members and 87 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun.

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/public_opinion/public_opinion.shtml

[clarice]

26. Oh my GOD !!!!!! not the Girl Scouts !!!!! eeeeeek. nt

[Robb]

4. LOL

[rdharma]

5. The "Gun Rights" folks sure post a lot of RW propaganda and talking points here on DU!

Makes you wonder whose side they're on, eh?!!!

http://www.showaltergroup.com/what-we-do/clients.php

[AnotherMcIntosh]

7. If you really represent what most Democrats want, why don't you run for office?

[gejohnston]

9. genetic fallacy plus

personal attack.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/genetic-fallacy.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

[gejohnston]

10. genetic fallacy

do you have any valid points to challenge her article? You don't think the gun control lobby can't learn something?
I mean, repeating the same logical fallacies, debunked studies (like Kellermann's "more likely than&quot , and nonsense that is counter to known social science?
How well has that been working?

[Robb]

11. Protip: When everyone you can find to agree with you is a fucking Republican

...you might not be much of a Democrat.

[gejohnston]

12. Wow one issue?

I think she made some valid points and worth learning from. But then, it's your movement.
What was propaganda? What was false? Can you point to one?
While you are at it, can you see where I agreed with anything? I said it was interesting, or one thing could be key. That does not mean I agree with opinions on anything else, whatever they are, nor does it mean I agree with what she wrote.

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.--Sun Tzu

But like I said, it's your movement.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. You know what they say...

...about single issue voters.

[Riftaxe]

13. I like strawberry ice cream

if you don't then you must be a fucking Republican!.

[rdharma]

15. Republicans like their ice cream with a lot of nuts in it!

[CokeMachine]

27. Please stay out of my Ice Cream.

[rdharma]

28. You tasting nuts?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

6. With respect to the author's claim that Rahm recruited candidates who supported gun rights in order

to win back the House in 2006 by being less offensive (or less than anti-gun lightening rods) than anti-gun candidates, the author doesn't identify any such candidates.

Certainly, a smart politicial operative would do things that would not offend most voters.

There doesn't seem to be a history of Rahm otherwise being in sync with such candidates. Rahm was a Goldman Sachs representative who was working, as a high operative, in the Bill Clinton campaign. If he had a sincere opposition to the theater of the adoption of anti-gun laws based upon gun appearances, he probably would have made his voice heard at the time. In Clinton's autobiography, Clinton makes it clear that he attributes the loss of the Democratic control of Congress in 1994 to the passage of the AWB.

To the extent that Rahm recruited pro-gun candidates for the 2006 election, he may have simply been acting in a pragmatic way. Unless it is the position of Goldman Sachs, I doubt that he is sincerely in favor of the private ownership of firearms for self-defense or any other purpose.

[gejohnston]

14. That's how I picture it

he learned from experience and history. I was surprised to see that, since I don't picture him giving the keynote speech at the next NRA convention. But then, he isn't exactly my idea of a great progressive either.

[rdharma]

16. SO ......who is your idea of a "great progressive"?

I'm curious because all I see from you here is reposted RW propaganda.

Your example of a "great progressive", please?

[gejohnston]

17. really?

IIRC, gun posts are based on logic and studies by professional and credentialed criminologies. The real world isn't that black and white. Since you quote the Frank Luntz poll, and support MAIG, ran by right of center Bloomberg.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172122974#post8

to answer your question as an example of a "great progressive" being:
Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown. I'm guessing union busting Rahm meets your definition?

[rdharma]

18. Sen. Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown are very much for sensible gun laws!

I guess you didn't know that, eh?

[gejohnston]

19. everyone is for "sensible"

but everyone has a different definition of "sensible"
http://www.ontheissues.org/house/Bernie_Sanders.htm#Gun_Control
I would agree that Sanders is for "sensible" laws. The F rating from the NRA is bullshit.
There are a number of regressives and conservatives who are for strict gun laws. Bloomberg, Trump for starters. I would describe Holder as a conservative.

BTW, what is it with gun control advocates and weasel words? like sensible, rational, reasonable, etc.

One more thing, while most progressive ideas are good, not every one is. Many, not all, progessives supported Prohibition, breed specific legislation, and a few other really bad ideas. Which is why I describe myself as a liberal instead of progressive.

[rdharma]

20. Evidently not!

Additional background checks ..... voted down.

And this wasn't even for Universal 100% background checks!

[gejohnston]

21. That wasn't the greatest bill

It is one thing to support an idea in principle, it is another to jump on the first bandwagon that comes by. Most people don't read beyond the title and the first paragraph. Some of those folks may have felt that the lame is the enemy of the good. Others probably thought it really was as draconian as the NRA made it out to be. Rather than "small steps" that are "good first steps" that really does look like a slippery slope, how about the adults on both sides make current laws more "sensible" and add "universal background checks" without bullshit on the margins. By adults I mean you leave out Wayne, Ted, Diane, and Mike.

Seriously, how many intra state online sales are there?

Everyone has a different definition of "sensible".

[Eleanors38]

22. Very good post -- useful stuff for any activist...

I consider the 2 most effective interest groups as being the amalgamation of LGBT organizations, and the NRA. Both entities are abundantly aided by their respective oppositions.

[gejohnston]

24. That's an idea

get the IFOA, who isn't fucking insane and who I would like to see over take the NRA, and the Pink Pistols together.

[Eleanors38]

25. Something I've bounced around as well. Maybe the existing...

Left-of-center pro 2A groups could be reached out to as well. I'd like to learn more about IFOA, though I've visited its web site.

[rdharma]

29. You're kidding! Aren't you?

I've never run into a more homophobic group than NRA members! Well, the KKK might give them some competition.

[Eleanors38]

30. ah. the digger. nt

[rdharma]

31. Did you want to say something, Eleanors38?

Thought I heard something in the background.