Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumNew York City's $340 gun fee ruled legal
So, if you have the money you can buy the right to bear arms.
Most of my progressive friends are NOT among the wealthy, but many of the gansters in the world, and the 1%, have plenty of cash.
What's next, NYC- charging for the right to free speech? Oh, yeah, they already have that as described in the article.
A federal appeals court gave the green light Tuesday to a law permitting New York City to charge hundreds of dollars for a gun licensing fee that costs $3 to $10 elsewhere in the state,
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan said the $340 handgun fee for a three-year license was legal for the same reasons that fees imposed on those seeking to stage a rally or a parade are constitutional.
"Imposing fees on the exercise of constitutional rights is permissible when the fees are designed to defray (and do not exceed) the administrative costs of regulating the protected activity," the appeals court said.
The city had told the court that revenue generated by licensing fees before the fee was increased in 2004 covered just over half of the related administrative expenses.
The ruling rejected a lawsuit brought in 2011 by guns rights advocates including the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association and the Second Amendment Foundation. The groups had challenged the law permitting New York City and neighboring Nassau County on Long Island to charge more than the $3 to $10 required for a handgun license elsewhere in the state.
Read More: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-City-s-340-gun-fee-ruled-legal-4656027.php
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Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)
petronius
(26,696 posts)Hope the court took a close look at what the city is defining as an "administrative cost" - or better, that the next court will. I have to wonder if they're not just creating some unnecessary 'administrative requirements' expressly for the purpose of creating a barrier to this protected activity...
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Watch the gun nuts bitch and moan.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I feel so much safer now.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)eom
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)
CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)My interpretation of your comment: I don't care about crime or gun violence but I want to sock it to gun owners.
At least one of you is honest enough to admit it. Congrats!!
beevul
(12,194 posts)" I don't care about the criminals, I just want to charge the gun nuts."
Mel, is that you?
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)What do you think?
beevul
(12,194 posts)"We need to tax ammo as well. Maybe we should start at $.50 per bullet."
"we"
I think you have a turd in your pocket...
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Every time you go to the range to blow off a few rounds, it will cost you $250.
beevul
(12,194 posts)I reload.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)$.50 for each new bullet, and $.10 for each time you fire the gun at the range.
Guns are like cigarettes. Just add luxury taxes.
beevul
(12,194 posts)"$.50 for each new bullet, and $.10 for each time you fire the gun at the range."
Can I assume you're going to have someone standing here 24/7 to monitor me cast bullets from wheel weights when I do, and someone standing here at my range - that is the range here on my property in the middle of bumfuck nowhere nebraska to monitor me shooting, when I do?
MMMkay. 
"Guns are like cigarettes."
Which amendment protects cigarettes from infringement, remind us all...
Thanks for playing.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)you will be entitled to masturbate with your guns at any time, all by yourself. Go ahead and have a cigarette afterwards.
Us city folk have better things to do.
beevul
(12,194 posts)At least you're original. 
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Try shooting some pigeons in Central Park.
beevul
(12,194 posts)I don't visit the home of "stop and frisk".
Maybe after mayor 1 percent leaves, but then, I know the law and wouldn't be bringing any guns.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Every doorway I walked past in Times Square smelled like piss and cigarettes. I walked halfway down the stairs to the subway and decided to take a cab instead. The smell of piss was blowing up the stairs.
You New Yorkers must love that...
warrant46
(2,205 posts)And the only time I was at JFK airport the place looked like saigon with dozens of camouflaged military carrying assault rifles at the ready lots of nasty looking german shepherds and this was after you go through the TSA patdown.
I AGREE with you the homeless in the city use almost any where to urinate or defecate
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I don't remember it smelling as bad as NYC though. The bigger the hive, the worse the smell I guess.
DragonBorn
(175 posts)Yes self defence should only be for the rich. A true liberal hero.
rl6214
(8,142 posts) 
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Bloomberg thinks NYC will be safer if poor black people can't afford guns, and he thanks you for your support.
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)I wonder if you also support poll taxes?
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)those damn city slickers!
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Great minds think alike, and all that...
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)but don't let that get in your way of critical thinking.
Obama is coming for your guns next month, start hiding them now.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)That is, until the cognitive dissonance caused by supporting the policies of a billionaire crypto-fascist
became too much to bear.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Have you ever been to New York City?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)*sighs*. And they wonder why they're not achieving anything on a national scale...
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)There is a huge backlash coming at gun ownership, at a National level... you better stock up now before Obama comes and takes your guns!
How Many People Own Guns in America? And Is Gun Ownership Actually Declining?
As the debate over new gun control measures rages on Capitol Hill and across America, lots of facts and figures get tossed around. What are the real gun ownership numbers in the United States?
How many guns are registered in America?
That’s a seemingly obvious question without a straightforward answer. There’s no universal gun registry, and thus not a simple way to pin down the exact number of firearms in the U.S.
There are estimates, however. According to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey – the leading source of international public information about firearms – the U.S. has the best-armed civilian population in the world, with an estimated 270 million total guns. That’s an average of 89 firearms for every 100 residents — far ahead of Yemen, which comes in second with about 55 firearms for every 100 people, or Switzerland, which is third with 46 guns for every 100 people.
There are certain types of firearms that do require registration in the United States: those subject to the National Firearms Act, including machine guns, shotguns and rifles with barrels shorter than 18 inches, and silencers.
According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which handles that registration, there were more than 3.1 million National Firearms Act-registered weapons in the U.S. as of March 2012. That includes more than 488,000 machine guns and more than 2 million “destructive devices” such as grenades, which are also classified under the law.
Are we seeing any trends in gun ownership?
Despite the high number of guns estimated to be in the U.S., indications are that gun ownership is actually on the decline. The long-running General Social Survey, maintained at the University of Chicago, has been asking about gun ownership since its inception in the 1970s. It has found that the number of people who say they have a gun in their home is at an all time low – hovering around 30 percent, from a high of 50 percent in the 1970s.
“When you see all the numbers, the overall pattern is quite clear,” Tom Smith, director of the General Social Survey, told TheBlaze.
Survey data shows self-reported gun ownership peaked at 53 percent in 1973 before seeing a fairly steady decline to 32 percent in 2010, the most recent year available. He cautioned singling any one year out, saying the numbers are better judged in the context of a whole: the 1970s averaged about 50 percent, the 1980s averaged 48 percent, the 1990s at 43 percent and 35 percent in the 2000s.
Smith pointed to several main factors responsible for the overall decrease in firearm ownership: a general decline in hunting, the rise of single-adult households and an overall drop off in crime.
Hunting, while still a major part of American life, has seen a decline in part because of urbanization.
The household effect is twofold: first, because fewer adults in the house mean fewer potential gun-owners, and second, that women are much less likely to own a firearm. “Millions of women of course do have firearms but their level is significantly lower than man,” Smith said.
So let's recap... the MAJORITY of Americans don't give a shit about owning guns.
And I foresee in the near future MORE regulation on owning guns.
I am love using my 1st Amendment Rights to point out here that I want to curtail your 2nd Amendment Rights.
Gun owners can go fuck off!
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)-just as you lot have- and I'm sure their estimate of the political situation is every bit as accurate as yours.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)All of them.
I have never owned a gun.
Never had a problem finding a store that would sell me meat.
Never had the fear that I had to defend my house.
Never had a child shoot accidental themselves with a gun I owned.
First we will tax your guns and permits... then we will slowly take them away.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)The Left wants to get rid of guns.
Moderate Republicans like Bloomberg want to tax guns
Where are you on the spectrum? oh wait.. we know where all the gun nuts are...
Just get it straight, the majority of Americans do NOT own a gun. We are a country that decides law by majority.
Just a matter of time until we take away your guns.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...if the sentiment behind it wasn't so rancid.
I'll be sure and link to this subthread the next time someone claims that we're unwilling to compromise.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)CASTLE ROCK - A controversial gun policy at an apartment complex for seniors has been thrown out after a 9Wants to Know report...
... Board members decided that the policy, which would have prohibited residents from having firearms in their homes, will not go into effect.
The Douglas County Housing partnership owns Oakwood Apartments in Castle Rock. It was purchased with federal funds and is supported by local, state, and federal tax dollars.
"These community policy changes were distributed without the knowledge or authorization of the Board of Directors of the Douglas County Housing Partnership or its staff," a Douglas County Housing Partnership release said. "This board does not support any action that infringes on an individual's rights and will not allow Ross Management to implement these changes. The mission of the Douglas County Housing partnership is to preserve and develop safe, secure, quality housing while providing housing choices for those who have few,"
Seems like the owners of the complex in question (to wit: the public) weren't too happy about a
hired management firm trying to shit on the Constitution.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)And I love using my 1st Amendment Rights to declare to you that we intend to repeal your 2nd Amendment.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Some sort of bird, I believe...
beevul
(12,194 posts)If you're referring to the act of leaving it to others, theres a word, some sort of bird, most definitely.
If one were to refer to it in the sense that some person would rely on others who were armed to do it...me, I think theres several words that would apply.
Just sayin'.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...might not be willing to go along with the plan. Some of them would be part of "Milgram's 37",
of course- but some wouldn't...
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...the remaining 800,000 might make things a tad bit problematic for your rosy scenario.
The various factions of the IRA and Unionists between them managed to make Northern Ireland nearly
ungovernable with comparatively fewer armed members.
I very much get the feeling that you wouldn't be emulating Robert Gould Shaw during the ensuing civil war,
and in any event the point is moot-you lot just don't have the votes, and never will.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Like Sherman's March on the ignorant South.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)You're making the mistake every war hawk makes- you believe it will be a walkover.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Or do you expect to reinstate conscription and have it be successful?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)
Don't be daft.
"The Left" doesn't want to "get rid of guns."
Authoritarian pricks do.
So what if the majority of Americans don't own guns. The majority of Americans aren't gay. You think gay people shouldn't have rights because they're not in the majority? You prefer mob rule to the rule of law. Got it.
You're not taking away my guns. I know that, most rational people know that. But you just keep living in your authoritarian fantasy world.
You REALLY need to change your screen name.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Don't you have some gun you need to polish?
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Gun nuts tend to have an emotional level of a fifteen year old.
Most gun nuts are rabid right wingers too... maybe you need to re-evaluate your obsession with guns and the culture of shooting at things.
I have never meant a common sense person that tries to rationalize the need of owning a gun.
There are so many interesting things in life... I can't think of anything so boring as people who find guns a "hobby".
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)And I love keeping this thread bumped... I want more people to organize and raise the fees for permits to $340+ in every city!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Only law abiding citizens will. Gun nuts will just steal them or smuggle them in and avoid the fee.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Raise the fee to $500... per gun.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,764 posts)...fee for owning a full-auto machine gun is a lot lower, my opinion is that being a proponent of such a fee self-identifies one as a "gun nut".
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)thank you for reminding me
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,764 posts)I was kind of in a funk until you made me laugh. 
You're new at this aren't you?
Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #92)
Post removed
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,764 posts)...funnier than you but not by much. I've never read "Guns and Ammo" and I've never heard of "Weekend Warrior". Have you?
Are you trying "aiming" for today's childish award?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Have there been that many crimes committed with fully automatic weapons?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Funny how permissive the gun nuts are in allowing such open discussion including insults in their forum.
Such a nutty thing to do!
I think you'll find that, overall, the gun fetishists will be the ones in fear of guns while those more familiar with them are less fearful and, thus, more rational.
I'll give you this much, there are a handful of true gun-nuts, fetishist gun owners, who garner 99% of the attention and make the rest look bad.
Pictures of them are used by the "destroy all guns" crown to make their disingenuous and specious points.
When it's not annoying, it's kind of entertaining!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Is there a sliding scale here from 'nut' to idunno... 'evil genius'?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I have to laugh at the claims of success in one place where in several other places rulings are made that reinforce 2A principles.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)That, overlaid with a wholly-frustrated group of "progressives" who have given up on political activism and change, explains the simplistic creation of caricatures (especially on-line ones) where "activists" can take pleasure in goading and poking at their enemies. It kind of makes you wonder if these folks truly believe in gun-bans, or whether they are trolling here for some nefarious reason, owing allegiance (if any) to who knows.
One thing to come of this thread is how the "left" is identified as being anti-gun. It would be interesting to see if the "left," however defined, is more or less in favor of gun-control when compared with "Third Way" folks. My sense is the "left" would be less inclined to support gun control than the middlin' third way.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)
ileus
(15,396 posts)Wonder what interest they have in assuring more people are victims by taking their ability to protect themselves and their loved ones?
On the other hand 340 bucks is a small price to pay to assure you have the ability to save a life when necessary.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Think of it as a luxury tax.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Think of it as a life insurance policy.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Funny how all common sense goes out the window when it comes to how to approach supporters of all ten amendments.
For example, how is it that members who post on this board can be so openly insulted?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023247601
It's a whining thread, a meta thread, but it's not going to be locked.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Anyone left out there that doesn't think Mayor Big Gulp is a fascist jackwagon?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)authoritarian is closer. He might be a fascist.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Not nearly as satisfying to use when venting, though...
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)...they don't really need to protect themselves.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)were already in place before he ever took office.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,681 posts)The rich seemed to be able to get a permit in NYC.
But I'd guess Trump etc paid more than $300 for the privilege.
Ter
(4,281 posts)Are they going to appeal this to the SC? Can they?
rl6214
(8,142 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)or a year's worth of subway rides.
and for such a dangerous weapon, this seems reasonable.
i realize you think they should hand out guns for free.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And it *is* only a background (and political suitability) check, because
for all his talk about his 'concern' over 'gun safety', King Bloomberg
has not actually enacted any marksmanship or gun law tests in New York City
ileus
(15,396 posts)seeking to preserve life, and liberty.
jimmy the one
(2,808 posts)nyc skp: So, if you have the money you can buy the right to bear arms.
What's next, NYC- charging for the right to free speech?
How come, in planet of the gunnuts, cities get to require gun ownership for residents, while other cities aren't supposed to be able to 'well regulate' gun ownership as the FF's intended?
You contrast with free speech, charging money for free speech - how much you pay a month for internet service, service provider, cable or phone fees, & electric? - to exercise your free speech in it's most reachable format for normal people - is it more than $10 per month? you bet it is, you probably pay over $50 per month for internet, while the 'exorbitant' nyc gun license is a mere $10 per month, 340 per 3 years.
"Imposing fees on the exercise of constitutional rights is permissible when the fees are designed to defray (and do not exceed) the administrative costs of regulating the protected activity," the appeals court said.
I doubt it's even a 2nd amendment issue.
jimmy the one
(2,808 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 8, 2013, 10:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Why mess with a comparative good thing tho? compare NYC, one of the ~35 large cities in the USA over 500,000, with other cities (not nec > 500k).
2006, guncontrol NYC vs pro gunners Dallas,Houston,Charleston, & Phoenix:
..............nycNY..DallasTX..ChstnSC ..PhxAR ..HoustonTX - crimerates/100k
Murder:....... 7.3.......15 ..........21 ..........15..........18.2
Forcible Rape:..13.......53 .......41 ..........36 .........41
Robbery: .....287 .......554 ......226 .........287 .....548
AggtdAsslt:.329 .......584 .....597 ........398 .........561
Burglary: ....271 ......1735 ......652 ......1064 ......1295
Larc/Thft:...1412 ......4006 .....2868 ......3282 ......3524
AutoTheft: ...195 ......1116 ......501 ........1587 ....1017
http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Phoenix&s1=AZ&c2=New+York&s2=NY
Now why in the world should NYC alter it's guncontrol policy when it outperforms such PRO GUN heavy weights? we're not talking marginally here, New York City has a fraction around 30 - 40% of the overall crime rates of these 4 pro gun cities where guns are allowed almost everywhere with few strings attached.
What, you want NYC to become MORE LIKE HOUSTON, DALLAS, PHOENIX, & CHARLESTONSC and ALLOW EASIER ACCESS TO AND MORE GUNS INSIDE????? .. Preachers heal thyselves, as well as thine pro gun cities which suffer such higher crime & murder rates than thine guncontrol brethren NYC with it's stricter gun control policies - mind your own business gunworld, & whatever bloomberg's doing, let him keep on doing it.
Nah nah, don't go there: wiki {edit: new york city's} population in 2010 was 44% white, 25.5% black, 0.7% Native American and 12.7% Asian ... population density of 27,532/square mile
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)It can't be due to proximity to progun states- Pennsylvania is an hour's drive or so away from NYC.
jimmy the one
(2,808 posts)icon: Care to explain why Chicago failed so spectacularly? They're notoriously antigun
Huh? Chicago's violent crime rates for 2006 were at parity with pro gunners Houston & Dallas, but chicago had around 30% less property crime rates of houston, dallas & phoenix. Overall crime rates LOWER in chicago than pro gun dallas, houston, & phoenix.
If that's 'failing spectaculary' by you, what did houston dallas & phoenix do? FAIL SUPER SPECTACULARLY????:
...........Chicago ...HoustonTX ..National
Murder: .....16.4 ....18.2 .... (2012 chgo ~20, spike)
Rape: ......... 41 .......32
Robbery:.....555 ......548 .....205
AggdAsslt ...610 .....561..... 336
Burglary: ...845 ....1295 .....813
Larc/Tht: ..2930 ...3524 ....2601
AutoTheft: ..763 ...1017 .....501
..........Chicago ........Dallas, TX
Murder: ...16.4 .....15 7
Rape: ..... 53 .......32
Robbery:..555 ......553
AggdAsslt: 610 .....584
Burglary: 845 .....1734
LarcThft:2930 .....4006
AutoThft: 763 .....1116
..........Chicago.......Phoenix, AZ
Murder: ....16.4 ......15.4
Rape: ....... 36.........32
Robbery:.. 555 .......287
AggrdAslt: 610 .......398 PHX better in violentcrime v Chgo
Burglary:.. 845 .....1064 PHX worse in propertycrime
LarcThft: 2930...... 3282
AutoTheft: 763 ......1587
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)jimmy the one
(2,808 posts)icon: I was referring to the murder and robbery rates
So what? I wasn't, & it was my post you replied to. Not only do you selectively change the goalposts ex post facto, you evidently think others are supposed to read your mind.
what I wrote: New York City has a fraction around 30 - 40% of the overall crime rates of these 4 pro gun cities where guns are allowed almost everywhere with few strings attached.
As well, if you limit to murder & robbery in chicago, essentially the same stats for pro gun houston, was houston a spectacular failure too? Murder, 2006: chicago 16.4 .. houston 18.2 .. Robbery:..chgo 555 ..houston 548.
icon: I was referring to the murder and robbery rates
So obvious to me, outside 2ndAmendment mythological hype & hubris, you can't refute any of the facts when you compare chicago & nyc with other similar sized pro gun cities, so to save face you simply put up a red herring.
2006, guncontrol NYC vs pro gunners Dallas,Houston,Charleston, & Phoenix:
..............nycNY..DallasTX..ChstnSC ..PhxAR ..HoustonTX - crimerates/100k
Murder:....... 7.3.......15 ..........21 ..........15..........18.2
Forcible Rape:..13.......53 .......41 ..........36 .........41
Robbery: .....287 .......554 ......226 .........287 .....548
AggtdAsslt:.329 .......584 .....597 ........398 .........561
Burglary: ....271 ......1735 ......652 ......1064 ......1295
Larc/Thft:...1412 ......4006 .....2868 ......3282 ......3524
AutoTheft: ...195 ......1116 ......501 ........1587 ....1017
http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Phoenix&s1=AZ&c2=New+York&s2=NY
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)you seriously think they get permits?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...in certain quarters