Will there be an increase in blacks obtaining concealed carry permits?

[Eleanors38]

Since the Zimmerman trial verdict there has been and continues to be speculation on what the "black community" will do, even to the point of rioting. Charges of racism and "profiling" have been leveled on those who see riots in the offing.

But is it racist to suggest that a substantial number of blacks may arm themselves as a result of the trial verdict, esp. since licensed concealed-carry is not as widespread among blacks? Should blacks now be dissuaded from such action? Who would like to start such a "campaign?" Would an African-American population, legally armed on a parity with "whites," disturb or disrupt one's image of blacks or re-enforce it?

[tularetom]

1. Good question

Personally I think there is a bit of racism in demands for a ban on guns and IMO blacks would be well advised to avail themselves of their 2nd amendment rights. But the prospect does scare the hell out of a lot of people who call themselves 2nd amendment supporters.

Don't forget, it was photographs of armed Black Panthers standing outside the CA capitol in the 1960's that led to Gov. Ronald Reagan of all people pushing through the gun control act of 1968.

RKBA applies to all Americans.

[CreekDog]

120. Debunking the ‘gun control is racist’ smear

Debunking the ‘gun control is racist’ smear




Prior to this summer, you would have had to explore the darkest corners of the gun rights movement to find anyone openly exclaiming that “gun control is racist.” This assertion—and the corollary allegation that the civil rights movement succeeded not because of disciplined nonviolence, but because African Americans were willing to take up arms against their oppressors—emanated mostly from obscure right-wing and libertarian websites like LizMichael.com or The Campaign for Liberty. The most-cited proponent was Clayton Cramer, a software engineer with a not-so-subtle agenda (that paved the way for Rand Paul), who has written that: “Racism is so intimately tied to the history of gun control in America that we should…require that the courts use the same demanding standards when reviewing the constitutionality of a gun control law, that they would use with respect to a law that discriminated based on race.”

(snip)

There’s a good reason why few African-Americans associate guns with “freedom” and “liberty.” The national U.S. homicide rate is 5.3 per 100,000 people. Among blacks, it’s 20.9 per 100,000. That’s four times the national rate and seven times the white rate. In 82% of black-victim homicides in which the fatal weapon can be identified, it’s a gun. And 73% of those gun deaths are inflicted by handguns.

Charles Lane has said that, “Firearms pose threats to modern-day urban dwellers—crime, suicide, accidents—that may outweigh any self-defense they provide. Unlike 19th-century rural Americans, we can call on professional police.”

Otis McDonald might not agree, but certainly other African-Americans in his community do. Annette Holt, whose 16 year-old son was shot and killed on a Chicago school bus while shielding a fellow student from harm, called the McDonald v. Chicago decision “a slap in the face to all of us who have lost children to gun violence.”

Then there is the Chicago City Council, which voted unanimously to approve the city’s strict, post-McDonald gun laws. Robert Farago was blunt in his assessment: “Not to put too fine a point on it, Chicago’s new handgun-licensing laws are inherently racist.” NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre ranted about “defiant city councils” that seek to “nullify” McDonald with regulations that are akin to “the poll tax or the literacy test.” Both men failed to mention that 20 out of the Chicago City Council’s 50 members are African-American.

Read More: http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/debunking-the-gun-control-is-racist-smear/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12623783

[rrneck]

2. Yes. nt

[rdharma]

3. You think that's the answer? More guns? REALLY?!!!!!!!

[Eleanors38]

4. Actually, I asked some questions. Care to answer, rdharma?

[ExCop-LawStudent]

5. Yes, that is the answer

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

Robert A. Heinlein

[rdharma]

9. "An armed society is a polite society"

Then Somalia must be pretty "polite", eh?!!

[GreenStormCloud]

134. In Somalia, only the warlords and their armies have guns.

The ordinary people don't have them.

[CreekDog]

110. ExCoy Law Student was banned as a RW gun troll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=304266&sub=trans

Posting Privileges Revoked
Revoked on Reason Revoked by
Jul 15, 2013 RW gun troll posting directly from Free Republic
For more information see Terms of Service

[rdharma]

135. I has a sad!

[GreenStormCloud]

133. Yes. Look at nature.

Nature's answer to the wolve's teeth and the cougar's claws was the longhorn's enormous horns.

[rdharma]

136. Talking point taken directly from that one gun nut's video!

[GreenStormCloud]

138. What video?

I have been using that analogy for many years. In nature, if you are a herbivore, carnivores target you. Herbivores have to have a survival strategy or go extinct. Basically you have to either run fast (deer), out breed (mice, rabbits), or out fight the carnivores (longhorns).

With humans we prey on each other. Fighting back against human predators is a successful tactic if you can win the fight. Guns enable the weak among us to fight back against the bullies.

[rdharma]

140. The gun nut playing "President" video.

The gun nut Kool-Aid crowd loved it.

[GreenStormCloud]

143. Link? I've never heard of it. N/T

[rdharma]

144. I avoid reposting links to RW propaganda.

Besides, I'm sure you are familiar with it since you employed one of the video's main talking points!

[GreenStormCloud]

145. Never heard of itl.

I have been using the analogy for many years. I enjoy the study of evolution. Among many other aspects, evolution produces many different types of arms races in nature. Horns to fight predators were developed over a hundred million of years ago.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

147. Your avatar is an anti-government bomb-making terrorist who uses extrajudicial killing & torture.

[DWC]

7. Race has nothing to do with it.

I am a 2nd amendment supporter. I would like all responsible adults to have the tools and knowledge that they deem necessary to defend themselves and those in their charge.

I am confident that the vast majority of 2A supporters share that opinion.

Semper Fi

[rdharma]

10. I am a 2nd Amendment supporter too....

But more guns is not the answer.

[ExCop-LawStudent]

11. Yeah, and I'm a gun control supporter

So I support "shall issue", "open carry", no magazine restrictions, no false assault weapon bans, etc.

See, now everyone's happy.

[rdharma]

15. Evidently we are NOT in agreement.....

I'm not for "shall issue" or "open carry". And I certainly don't think that the answer to gun violence ...... is MORE GUNS!

But in Somalia, you don't need a CCW permit, you can open carry, AND there are no restrictions on magazines or belt fed weapons. Sounds like gun hugger heaven, eh?

[gejohnston]

17. but only retainers for the local warlord have those

everyone else has to get a license for a an average gun, assuming they can afford it. Oh wait, they have to save a couple of years for a box of shells.

[rdharma]

18. No. Not true.

No licensing requirement in Somalia. And no waiting for ammunition at the weapons bazaar.

[DWC]

13. Sounds like we are in agreement

Only difference is I hold that responsible adults are free to chose the tools and knowledge they deem necessary to defend themselves and those in their charge.

You seem to feel that others should make that choice for them.

My knowledge in situational awareness and self defense in combination with my defensive firearm gives me the best possible chance of surviving any attack by a perpetrator. I freely make that choice and accept full responsibility for it.

I will respect and honor the choices you make for yourself and will hold you, along with the rest of society, equally responsible for those choices.

Semper Fi,

[Straw Man]

82. Questions and answers.

I am a 2nd Amendment supporter too....

But more guns is not the answer.

So how many of yours are you going to give up?

[rdharma]

91. None. But I'd be more than willing to register every one of them that I have.

A slight inconvenience? Maybe. But I'm willing to undergo a bit of inconvenience in order to pursue my hobby if it helps to keep guns out of the hands of unqualified individuals.

And no........ I don't think registration is a precursor to confiscation by "govt. thugs in black helicopters".

[Straw Man]

97. So ...

... you start with "more guns is not the answer." Then you say you're unwilling to give up any of your guns, and you shift the topic to registration.

Don't you ever get tired of all that tapdancing?

[rdharma]

98. No. Because more guns is not the answer.

Should I type it slower?

[Straw Man]

101. So we're back to the original topic.

No. Because more guns is not the answer.

Should I type it slower?

But you're unwilling to give up any. So you believe that fewer guns is not the answer either?

I understood you perfectly the first time. Your snide bullshit gains you nothing but contempt.

[rdharma]

103. You have contempt for the truth?

Why is that?

[Straw Man]

127. No.

You have contempt for the truth?

Why is that?

I have contempt for lame, hackneyed insults like "Should I type it slower?" If you're going to insult people, at least you could attempt to be somewhat original.

That's rich -- "the truth." All hail rdharma, bringer of "the truth" ...

[ileus]

8. everyone should take personal safety seriously...

seriously enough to carry a PPD? Maybe...maybe not.

I do but it's only for my personal safety and that of my family.

[rdharma]

92. Paranoia will destroy ya! nt

[CreekDog]

12. jeez, even your name is after a gun

[Eleanors38]

85. But it's Eleanor's, a great liberal you should familiarize yourself with...

Wanna hear about Franklin Delano's?

[CreekDog]

87. but you're celebrating her gun, not her

"Eleanor's 38".

it's the gun you have put on pedestal in your name, not Eleanor.

[Eleanors38]

88. Weak effort. I support Eleanor's stance against the KKK.

Do you? Read up on her actions, which included carrying her revolver with her in Klan "territory." She also had a CCW, issued from NY.

[CreekDog]

89. Right, but your name is about her gun, not her.

oh and, what biography of Eleanor Roosevelt did you read that in?

what books about Eleanor have you read?

[Eleanors38]

100. You know, Creek, whatever I answer you won't believe me. Right? nt

[CreekDog]

102. if you show me some posts where you've said something about Eleanor that didn't have to do with guns

that would at least show that you admire her broad legacy instead of just that she owned a gun and had a concealed weapons permit.

but honestly, if there's not a gun involved, you simply lose interest in posting about it here.

[Eleanors38]

107. ...Like I said. nt

[CreekDog]

109. You don't have any. So far, your accolades of her are actually for her gun, not her

books and things you've read about her --none that you've been willing to state.

you're playing a game here, that's all.

[rdharma]

104. What does it take for a "star member" to be PPRed?

[premium]

106. Why do you care?

Are you suggesting that Eleanors38 should be PPR'd? If so, why?

[Eleanors38]

108. I'm not the one to ask about such machinations. Was it Creekdog you had in mind? nt

[Sequoyah441]

14. I'm a state handgun instructor

and over the years I'm seeing more and more black folks and women in the classes for their carry permits. In the beginning it was all white men, now it's about half white men and half women and other folks.
In 2009 one young black man that impressed the heck out of me being new to firearms couldn't find ammo for his .357 revolver but couldn't find .44 magnum. So he bought .44 auto mag. The gun was nearly as big as him. With him being so thin and light I expected the gun to jump him all over the place but without ever having fired a firearm before he was putting all his rounds into the 10 ring. He qualified with a 100% on the firing range.

[rdharma]

16. What's a "state handgun instructor"?

I've never heard that term used before.

BTW - Welcome to DU!

[hack89]

38. States with training requirements certify instructors

you have to go to a state certified instructor in order for your training to be legal.

[rdharma]

39. What states are those?

[oneshooter]

40. Texas is one.

http://www.txchia.org/insthow.htm

These classes are run by the Texas Department of Public Safety, aka the state police.

[hack89]

41. Is your Google broken? nt

[rdharma]

43. Must be.

Because I couldn't find a .357 magnum that takes .44 magnum ammo!

[rl6214]

57. Pretty easy to figure out that he made a typo

"being new to firearms couldn't find ammo for his .357 revolver but couldn't find .44 magnum. So he bought .44 auto mag"

Should have been: being new to firearms (he) couldn't find ammo for his .357 revolver but COULD find .44 magnum. So he bought (a) .44 auto mag.

Nothing about a .357 magnum that takes .44 magnum ammo.

[rdharma]

59. Pretty easy to see that he/she was trying to portray this "black guy" as a fool.

........ And then made a foolish mistake himself.

A bad start for his first post, don't you think?

[rl6214]

67. You did see the part where he said the

"Young black guy impressed the heck out of him" and that he passed with a 100% score? Do you always have such a warped view of humanity?

[rdharma]

71. Was that after the dog whistle?

[rl6214]

72. If there's a dog whistle

You're hearing things or you just have a really wild imagination.

[rdharma]

74. Or maybe you have poor hearing? nt

[premium]

53. Calif. is another.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo

Personally, I believe that every state should require a firearms safety course w/certificate before purchasing a firearm.

[oneshooter]

129. I believe that is a saftey training course.

Which is not required to be issued a California CCL. The Texas course and testing is a required in order to obtain a Texas CHL.

[premium]

130. Ok.

I thought this was about able to purchase.
My mistake.

[Sequoyah441]

146. To directly answer your question

I took a Handgun Instructors course from a NRA training counselor. Upon passing the test I was then allowed to teach the NRA Introduction and Basic handgun classes or "First Steps" as they referred to them at the time. I then applied to the TN state DOS to become a state certified handgun instructor that allowed me to teach and conduct the state's required class to obtain a HCL ( I was among the first 50 in the state to apply.) About a month later I received my credentials from the state along with then available materials to conduct a class. I did all this at my own expense to help raise money for my gun club with those proceeds being directed to improving the facilities reserved for our youth marksmanship programs.
We did this for several years until our club attorney determined that our liability insurance wouldn't cover the instructors since we were teaching the state class instead of the NRA class. Several of us again at our own expense bought our own insurance and continued on. Later due to changes in management at the firing range we used we stopped offering the course.
Since then I've been helping two different HCL schools. I'm not an inside person so I do not care to teach the classroom portion of the course so I concentrate on the firing range portion. I'm now the lead range instructor and I call the course of fire. This doesn't sound very impressive but someone has to be in charge and my primary goal is that we have no "accidents" and everyone goes home in the same condition as they arrived. So far other than and few cuts and scrapes all students have been safe, as well as all other instructors. Me not so much but that's another story.
Of the thousands of students several failed on their own, we have took it upon ourselves to fail some that we didn't think had the right attitude or mental facilities. I've told more than a few they needed to invest in buying big stick and a mean dog and forget about guns. IMO the course is very easy and shouldn't be a problem for anyone with just a little common sense to pass. I've been very impressed with several new shooters and very disappointed by experienced shooters. The shooters that scare me the most are LEOs. Their complacence scares the crap out of me.
I also volunteer about 15 hours a month as a range safety officer. My job is to make sure everyone on my range is safe and safely firing their chosen firearm. With dove season not to far away we're starting to see people come in to practice and warm up with their shotguns on our shotgun ranges, then it will be muzzle-loader and center-fire rifles on the rifle range. As the year concludes we'll also have some after dark and cold weather shoots for handguns and long-guns mostly for fun but to also give folks some experience in those conditions.

To answer another of your questions I did make a typo. I start typing fast and mistakes are introduced and I also did a poor job of proof-reading. Please forgive or not.

[rdharma]

148. I see..... TX state "certified" and not employed by DPS or the state thanks nt

[BainsBane]

19. Why, so they can be put on death row?

Do you have any concept of what country you live in? Whites get to shoot black men. They don't get to shoot white people without being executed.

You're just salivating over the prospect of more guns in circulation. Don't you think black men know what would happen to them if they acted like you? They can't even walk home from the store without being called criminals and blamed for their own murders. How is it even possible to have so little awareness of the country you live in?

[Eleanors38]

23. Moving past your personal insult, do you think black citizens should,

if they wish, obtain a concealed-carry firearm? BTW, I do not presume to know "what black men know what will happen to them if they acted like you [me]." And clearly, since you don't know how I act, vis a vis a gun, how could you possibly conclude a large number of our citizenry would know? How did you come to that cosmic "understanding?"

[Kolesar]

30. A black man would get life in prison for what Zimmerman did ... eom

[Eleanors38]

31. Speculation. nt

[Kolesar]

32. Probability ... eom

[BainsBane]

37. He'd be on death row

and have a look at capital convictions if you don't believe it. I can't even begin to imagine how it's possible to avoid such basic facts.

[Eleanors38]

49. If you are against the death penalty, you agree with me.

[DWC]

51. This Black vs White stuff is pure CRAP

If you chose to violate the law you will be brought to justice. Society does not care who your momma and daddy were. Society only cares who you are and requires that you comply with its rules and its laws. If you do not comply you will pay. Race has nothing to do with it.

Trying to use the "race card" now is so low that it does not even stand as a lame excuse.

I am primarily Caucasian and am personally offended by your grossly prejudicial comments about my race.

Semper Fi,

[LanternWaste]

58. You then believe the Justice System is devoid of any and all racism?

"Race has nothing to do with it...."

You then believe the American Justice System is devoid of any and all racism, regardless of means, mechanism or usage; and that racism plays absolutely no part in sentencing?

[DWC]

64. No system is perfect

But overall, racism has been removed as a factor in our justice system and, for the better part, our society in general.

Semper Fi,

[BainsBane]

76. absurd

How do you explain sentencing differences for rock vs. powder cocaine? How do you explain the fact that blacks are charged and convicted in far greater percentages than whites who engage in the same behavior? SYG is particular has been shown to be profoundly racist, invoked 11 to 1 by whites over blacks.How do you explain the fact that those on death row are overwhelmingly African American and that killing a black person rarely results in a death sentence but blacks killing whites are sentenced to death at far greater rates?

In 1990 a report from the General Accounting Office concluded that "in 82 percent of the studies [reviewed], race of the victim was found to influence the likelihood of being charged with capital murder or receiving the death penalty, i.e. those who murdered whites were more likely to be sentenced to death than those who murdered blacks."

More information at http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=54

The simple fact is that "society" does not value the lives of black people. The Martin trial exemplifies that. If a black man had been the shooter, chances that he'd be a free man today are very small. Every person with a functioning brains stem knows that.

Pretending racism doesn't exist is pure fantasy. You obviously have no idea what racism is and instead appear steadfastly committed to maintaining white privilege through willful ignorance. Your denial of racism and attempt to portray yourself and whites as victims because others point out facts is ideological dribble. Denying the existence racism is one of the most pernicious form of racism that exists. That kind of propaganda about racism against whites actually originated among white supremacist groups, and now you repeat it here. It's hard to believe anyone can really be that uninformed, but you exceed all expectations.

[BainsBane]

121. Did you look at the death penalty stats?

You obviously didn't. Look at how it is applied according to the race of the victim. How do you explain that?

Then tell me, are you saying African Americans are inherently more criminal than whites?

[hrmjustin]

81. I can not believe you said that.

I am sorry but you are wrong, very wrong!

[hrmjustin]

79. With all due respect you are wrong. Race is very much a part of the Criminal Justice system.

[CreekDog]

111. never stopped you

[BainsBane]

36. I think very few people should carry a gun

It increases the possibility for someone to cause trouble and kill someone, exactly as Zimmerman did. Black people don't have the presumption of innocence whites do. That is a fact. You only need a passing familiarity with the judicial system to figure that out.

[Eleanors38]

50. If you believe "very few" should have Concealed-carry, who

Would determine the "few" and what would be criteria, say, in Seminole Co., Florida?

[BainsBane]

69. There is a difference between what I think

and what should be law. I think concealed carry is far too prevalent and far too dangerous. If it were up to me, only those with a demonstrable need to carry a gun for professional purposes would do so, but it isn't up to me. Nothing outside of my own behavior is up to me. I know it will never happen. Guns and murder are big business. It's not going to stop.

[DWC]

68. I call BS on your racist comments.

"Black people don't have the presumption of innocence whites do"

That quote is totally racist propaganda. It is beyond reverse discrimination and intolerable in any civil discourse.


Semper Fi,

[BainsBane]

73. Racism to you is not disparity in the judicial system, but someone pointing out

that fact. You're not concerned that that blacks overwhelmingly face higher sentences and are given the death penalty more often. You're incensed someone has the audacity to speak about that disparity. Funny, that's exactly what Fox, Rush, and every other right wing outlet says. Your insistence on denying reality only shows that you work assiduously to keep yourself uninformed. If you are that completely ignorant about something so basic, that tells me nothing you have to say is worth paying attention to.

White males are not an oppressed minority. Get over your victimization complex. ?w=296&h=300

[DWC]

95. Equality is just that

We have judges, lawyers, and jurors of all races. None of whom are concerned about the race of the individual facing justice. If a member of any particular ethnic group receive above average punishment it is because that individual deserves it.

Get over the "Oh, poor me, society is mean to me because I am ___________ &quot fill in the blank with any color you want).

Semper Fi,

[hrmjustin]

78. That is not racist at all but reality. Just look at what happened to poor Trayvon!

[DWC]

105. IMO Racism had nothing to do

with Zimmerman's use of deadly force to stop his violent attacker. Like it or not, the evidence is irrefutable.

IMO if Martin had been Hispanic or white or anything other than black and Zimmerman been black; Zimmerman would have still been found not guilty. Further, the black Zimmerman never would have been charged with a crime or brought to trial.

IMO Race Baiters Suck.

Semper Fi,

[hrmjustin]

113. So you think that the justice system is fair?

You are way too optimistic about things. I live in NYC and I can tell you the Justice system here is not fair.

African Americans and Hispanics are subjected to this policy but I as a white male will almost certainly not have to go through this.

[DWC]

116. That is a crock

If you, the individual, make right decisions and comply with the law you will not receive a second look by the justice system, what ever your race and that is a fact.

If you the individual make wrong choices and do not comply with the law you will feel the full force of the justice system, what ever your race and that also is a fact.

IMO Anyone who attempts to claim they were busted because they are _______________ (fill in the blank with any color you want) is trying to make excuses for their irresponsible, anti-social behavior.

That is not optimism and the justice system is not an affirmative action program.

Semper Fi,

[hrmjustin]

117. So there is no racism in the judical system?

[hrmjustin]

119. Liberals and progressives do not believe the system as is, is fair. We believe in admitting the

flaws of the system and trying to fix it.

[gejohnston]

123. Even the family lawyer Ben Crump admits it now

even though he and his partner Daryl Parks hired a Orlando PR firm Julison Communications to create the false "white, domestic abuser, racist wanabe cop" meme.

I saw Parks on Piers Morgan. He basically said that Zimmerman should be liable because he knew the cops would rescue him in a minute or two. I was beyond disgusted.

[friendly_iconoclast]

131. Don't you love it when others presume to speak for groups they don't belong to?

I recall a now-banned European-Canadian DUer who was quite vocal about what she felt
was in the best interests of African-Americans.

That came to a rather abrupt halt when she was confronted here by an actual African-American DUer.

That, truly was a takedown to remember!

[Eleanors38]

132. Yeah, I remember that. Some controllers sound like shrill 60s-era libs...

who claimed to be on the cutting-edge of black & liberation politics. Jeez. Strange but not unexpected reaction to my OP: The demand that (presumably) I should be PPR'd, a failed alert, accusation from a black DUer that the OP was racist; the announcement from another that he/she was considering obtaining a CCW after the Z verdict -- all from a post that asked for opinions about blacks arming themselves. This after Malcolm X and the Panthers' actions some 50 yrs. earlier! Incidentally, I saw nothing wrong with those actions then, either.

But be sure not to call Chicago's ex-gun laws Jim Crow or you'll get censored -- a clear indication of how controllers are installing doctrine and hegemony into DU's approved gun narrative.

[spin]

21. Florida is a "shall issue" state. ...

Race should not a consideration for determining who gets a concealed carry permit. I have introduced both blacks and Hispanics to the shooting sports and several went on to get concealed weapons permits.

I see absolutely no problem with allowing honest citizens of any race to legally carry a concealed firearm. However anyone who decides to own a firearm for self defense or to obtain a carry permit needs to understand that firearms are extremely dangerous and require great responsibility.

Guns are not for everybody but a person's ethnic background is irrelevant.

[Kolesar]

28. The 2A forum now knows that you don't have to state your race on your CCW application! .. eom

[jmg257]

22. Well, the incident showed that..

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

nevermind.

[Eleanors38]

24. If African-Americans wanted a CCW, would you support that?

[jmg257]

25. Why would it matter what kind of -Americans they were???

[Eleanors38]

27. It doesn't. It appears we are in agreement on CCW rights.

[jmg257]

33. Rights &/or privileges should be able to be enjoyed equally by all.

In this case, not sure if I like it due to "equally", but...'extra credit' may be given to some persons in light of history (recent and distant) when it comes to justifying a CCW (as is required in some states).

[Eleanors38]

34. "extra credit:" Therein is the problem. Extra credit...

can only be allotted (or not) in a "may issue" system. So if we have a locality, state, country bent on racist policies and possessed of a culture to excuse a Zimmerman-type shooting, then we should expect "may NOT issue" to rear its ugly head, no? Fortunately, we don't have may issue in most states.

BTW, did you notice my post was alerted & actually got 2 votes to "hide?" Racism has been cheapened so.

[CreekDog]

112. i didn't realize they all acted and thought as a unit

[meanit]

26. Some may arm themselves,

and some may not. But I can't say that I'd blame the people who do arm themselves.
Of course more guns are not the answer, but some may see arming themselves as the only way they can protect themselves from being shot down by some lunatic who feels
"threatened" by them.

[ceonupe]

29. Most people of color that

Approach me about getting involved in gun ownership training and ccw usually do it more for personal protection than general racism.

The pattern is usually someone they know personally is assaulted or robbed. Then they want to have options for protection then it goes from there.

Many of the minorities I know that ccw like myself don't do it just because of racism but it does play a role. I know in doing business I have had to drive rural back roads in what many would call the not most racially sensitive areas. If I should breakdown and Mercedes or aaa can't get me help fast I like the peace of mind in knowing if I had to use my firearm for protection I have that option.

[jimmy the one]

35. the ubiquitous car seat slit for hiding

ceu: Many of the minorities I know that ccw like myself .. If I should breakdown and Mercedes or aaa can't get me help fast I like the peace of mind in knowing if I had to use my firearm for protection I have that option.

You could pretty much have done the same thing with a gun in your glove compartment, or, like many gun owner's I've known, hidden in a slit in the car seat vinyl just below the steering wheel (truth now, did you used to do this prior to getting ccw permit?)
One guy pulled his pistol out while carpooling to work, flashed it about in the car as a demonstration of how he had a gun. I didn't report him tho, woulda been a he said he said.
I used to keep a looks real fake plastic snub in the door comptmt, about as good as a real one for most intents & purposes; just get a black or grey one, don't go with red or green, tho your adversaries might stop cause they're laughing so much.

[rl6214]

60. Good way to get yourself shot

"I used to keep a looks real fake plastic snub in the door comptmt, about as good as a real one for most intents & purposes; just get a black or grey one, don't go with red or green, tho your adversaries might stop cause they're laughing so much."

[jimmy the one]

62. hardly a good way to get shot

I wrote: "I used to keep a looks real fake plastic snub in the door comptmt, about as good as a real one for most intents & purposes; .. don't go with red or green, tho your adversaries might stop cause they're laughing so much."

rl replied: Good way to get yourself shot

Hardly, when compared to a real one. The odds of getting shot with a real gun are much higher than with a fake gun, for obvious reasons; unless you're really really stupid or really really daring. I am not stupid & not that daring.
.. the fake gun is used as a last resort in a real crime, & you don't try to bluff if you know others have guns.
But for most intents & purposes, as I said, the fake gun will scare off those who don't know it's real or not.

[GreenStormCloud]

139. NEVER bluff with a gun.

While a gun, or a fake gun, makes a very good bluff, if your bluff gets called - you're dead.

[Apophis]

42. What kind of racist shit is this?

[premium]

44. What's racist about it?

It's a legitimate question.

[Apophis]

45. It's a stupid question.

You don't see me asking if white people will be buying guns every time a white person gets killed.

Good gods.

And when a question is prefaced with "is it racist..." Yes, it is racist.

[premium]

46. I guess we'll just have to disagree,

I see it as a legitimate question, you don't.

Have a grand day.

[Eleanors38]

52. I fail to see what is racist about my post. Could you explain?

[Apophis]

56. You're asking if blacks will be out buying guns because of the GZ verdict.

It's racist to even ask that. What, we're all angry, scared black men now?

Pfft. I'm a black man and I hate guns.

I'm going to leave this cesspool of a forum. You racists and gun fetishists can keep it.

[rl6214]

61. It's people like you that see racism in everything that are the problem

You turn a simple question into a problem

[Pelican]

63. Jury Results...

At Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

It's people like you that see racism in everything that are the problem
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=128570

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Yes, those overly sensitive black people who see racism everywhere... Seriously, DU, why is this bigot still here? TOS checked.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:54 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: You can't possibly be serious.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Fight club.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Just part of the discussion.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Some people do see racism in every word and gesture...

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Apophis]

66. Did the alerter think I am racist against blacks?

I'm a black man, FFS!

[jimmy the one]

70. nick to eddie

Apophis: Did the alerter think I am racist against blacks?
I'm a black man, FFS!

You gotta know one thing apophis, this is generally a pro gun board, & mostly pro gun democrats/ blue dog dems. Not calling them racists, but you go against one you against most all of them, especially when you knock their sacred cow.
.. know another thing, like nick nolte said to eddie murphy in 48 hours in the redneck bar, 'some of us law abiding citizens are with you all the way, officer apophis'.

[petronius]

75. It wasn't your post that was alerted on, it was a reply to you (post 61)

that got sent to a jury...

[Eleanors38]

90. I reject your insult. I pose the question to you:

Do you support African-Americans exercise their RKBA if, in their judgment the conditions in their various communities has become intolerably unsafe, and acquire a CCW permit? There are those who oppose Anyone having that right, those who would "allow" the right only for "a few," and there are those who support Anyone without a criminal record and adjudicated mental incompetent status having the right to a CCW. Where do you stand?

I would point out that merely broaching these questions is not racism: There is a history of discriminatory firearms laws in this country, notably and well into the latter part of the 20th Century, in Florida. NYC's Sullivan Laws, still on the books, were passed on a wave of anti-Italian fears. Those measues deserve questioning. And have been in this group.

[Eleanors38]

83. Instead of flippant insults, deal with the questions.

Do you object to African-American citizens choosing to arm themselves against threats like Zimmerman? Yes? No? Don't care? Do you think it might happen?

BTW, square your answers with your beliefs & positions on gun control.

Your attack devalues the charge if racism to just another standard DU insult, so quit doing it.

[Apophis]

93. What, black people be angry and scared now so we all out buying guns?

I'm a black man and your OP is racist. As I asked you before, do you see me asking white folks if they all go out and buy guns because some black man shot a white person somewhere? No.

But what do I know about racism?

[Eleanors38]

96. Again, you are off base with your charge of racism.

Frankly, I don't care if you ask "white folks if they all go out and buy guns because some black man shot a white person somewhere."
What you ask or don't ask doesn't matter, but if you did ask my answer would be: "Some probably do, but most won't, either because they don't see the need, or they already have firearms, or they don't keep guns at all." It's a fair question.

My question addressed the willingness of some at DU to support the concept of lawful self-defense, esp. since they have identified oppression, racism and injustice signified by the Zimmerman acquittal. Any people or individual who feels oppressed has the right to lawfully defend themselves, IMO. I don't know if you agree with that concept, either

BTW, did you see Tavis Smiley's comments regarding blacks arming themselves to see what the NRA's reaction would be? It's in another thread.

[jeepnstein]

47. Sure, why not?

Blacks are disproportionately victims of crime. I have no problem at all with a lawful citizen going armed. A citizen who is armed and going about his/her business in a lawful manner is of no concern to the state at all.

[jimmy the one]

48. second motion needed, apply within

spin: I have introduced both blacks and Hispanics to the shooting sports and several went on to get concealed weapons permits.

I'll bet even some of your best friends are, eh?

However anyone who decides to own a firearm for self defense or to obtain a carry permit needs to understand that firearms are extremely dangerous and require great responsibility

Yay, like eddy eagle sorta says when you see an NRA member: Stop. Don't touch. Leave the Room. Tell an Adult.

eleanors: Will there be an increase in blacks obtaining concealed carry permits?

I doubt an increase in the overall percentage rate, which is indicative of what you're driving at. There might be a slight increase in total black GUYS getting ccw permits along with population increases & the illinois proscription being lifted, but I doubt a rate increase, maybe downward.
I actually believe the zimmerman trial could suppress blacks wanting to get a ccw - it wasn't trayvon martin carrying concealed it was the self appointed vigilante zimmerman SYG - stalking his ground (the zimmerman-corollary: stalking then standingYG).

el: But is it racist to suggest that a substantial number of blacks may arm themselves as a result of the trial verdict, esp. since licensed concealed-carry is not as widespread among blacks?

It might not be racist but it's not gonna make you many new black friends. Blacks support guncontrol moreso than white democrats, & far far far moreso than republicans, iirc blacks supported GC efforts in upper 80%, just below the top Jewish GC support ~90%.

el: Should blacks now be dissuaded from such action? Who would like to start such a "campaign?" .. I nominate you.

[Eleanors38]

54. On "persuading blacks" not to arm themselves:

Perhaps better "nominees" can be found in the eternally confused ranks of the gun-control activists. After all, if I have pretty much established my support for 2A.

BTW, the charges made by some that I am racist are standard acceptable smear when it comes to describing pro-2A DU members, just more of the same.

Do you support the right of all races to obtain a CCW?

[jimmy the one]

55. wanna hear a funny joke?

eleanors: .. the charges made by some that I am racist are standard acceptable smear when it comes to describing pro-2A DU members..

Dunno if you are or not, I wrote you won't make many new black friends by your OP theme.

Do you support the right of all races to obtain a CCW?

I don't support the so called right of ANY race to obtain, on demand, a concealed carry permit - I prefer the may issue standard (demonstrated need), which is also the standard used in switzerland; & under that (may issue) standard of course I wouldn't object by race. (Your question needs qualification).
.. came across this: Afro.com, 3/2013: Though it does not appear to be high on their political radar, gun control has long been embraced with strong support by African Americans, according to polls most recently conducted by Pew Research and Washington Post/ABC.

Haha, also came across this funny joke looking for the above. Er, I mean, humorous anecdote: apr2008: The following year Johnson signed the 1965 Voting Rights Act. No Republican presidential candidate has gotten more than 15% of the black vote since. Footnote: Younger African American voters have been edging away from the Democratic Party in recent years.. the Joint Center notes "a fairly long-term pattern of decreasing identification with the Democrats by younger African Americans." Of course, it remains to be seen what the 2008 campaign will bring. http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks-and-the-democratic-party/

Hahahahahahaha! See what I mean! Can't stop laughing!

[Eleanors38]

86. Well, I'm always open to humor. Let me know when it comes my way.

[rdharma]

65. The NRA (and Republicans) are pushing the "gun control is racist" canard!

They've even hired one black spokesman!

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/07/nra-news-commentator-to-be-featured-at-republican-event/#axzz2ZFFNTj00

I wonder how many black folks will be in attendance of these NRA/Republican Party events (other than the hired guest speaker)?

[anomiep]

80. An African American population legally armed on a parity with whites does not disturb me.

It's the way it ought to be, just from the standpoint of equal protection, if individual black people make the decision to arm themselves, and I've often thought that law-abiding people in high crime areas (whatever the color of the people who live there) probably need guns for self defense *more* than someone who doesn't have a whole lot statistically to worry about. And that sucks, because it's in the highest crime areas, with stricter gun laws, that it's hardest for a law abiding citizen to get a gun.

I don't think it would disturb my 'image of blacks', either. I've always tried to take people on a case by case basis, based on what that person *does* and who they individually are, rather than on skin color.

So generically, I say no problem.

If people of any color are arming up with intent to harm others rather than for recreation and self defense, though, that would worry me. Not because of skin color, but because of intent - say some white power group decides to arm up for a race war (which I don't doubt that some are). *That* would (and does) disturb me.

[Eleanors38]

84. I concur, yet some accuse me of racism.

[CreekDog]

114. because you called gun laws "Jim Crow"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=127580

Eleanors38 This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide
14. Jim Crow gun laws just got life support unplugged.

A Jury voted 6-0 to hide this post on Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:46 AM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See Community Standards.)

Here's the article which describes the action which you are calling Jim Crow.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130709/news/707099924/Link

Despite me asking you where the language in the action refers to race or enforces segregation, you could never quote a single line or piece of text.

You are using the term "Jim Crow" as a way to hitch yourself onto a racial civil rights issue which you've never posted in favor of except as it supports your own narrow and conservative opinion on guns.

[DWC]

99. I support all responsible adults

exercising their right of armed self defense. Violent crimes are definitely reduced when the perpetrators think there is a good chance their "prey" will shoot back.

There is absolutely nothing racist about that position or the OP.

Semper Fi,
.

[CreekDog]

115. you only post on guns

if you want credibility among DU members, how do you expect to get it when you only post on one issue, guns, and always to the right of nearly every DUer?

[Blue_Tires]

122. fwiw, I'm definitely considering it...

I'll be damned if I'm the next Trayvon while walking my dog at night...

[CreekDog]

125. do you consider the gun control laws in Illinois "Jim Crow" as the OP does?

[Blue_Tires]

128. I've only been to IL once in my lifetime, so I wouldn't really know

I do know that in my home state of VA, I wouldn't have any obstacles whatsoever...

[Eleanors38]

142. Note #128. Again.

[Eleanors38]

126. These are foreboding times. I think the opportunity

to speak openly and honestly, even in this forum, is closing down. Doctrine and loyalty are the orders of the day. I have never recommended to anyone what course of action should be taken regards self-defense, only that it be just that and only in extremis. I wish you luck, and stand ready to offer you what meager advice I can offer.

[GreenStormCloud]

137. In Texas, in 2012, 7.10% of new CHLs were issued to blacks.

That's 10,389 new CHL holders who are black.

[Eleanors38]

141. I posted an article about women obtaining arms...

(last year). It suggested that the fastest growing demographic in CCW licensing in Texas was black women. Don't know if the data is broken down further, but sounds like it is.