Police officer stands ground against "vicious" dog

[SecularMotion]

[Shrike47]

1. What the hell?

[EC]

2. They killed it? n/t

[lasttrip]

3. wth

edit- video was from 2010. still sucks.

[enough]

4. If you're a white man with a gun, you can do whatever you want. (nt)

[clffrdjk]

5. How the hell can you claim that was "SYG" or even self defense related?

Krispos haven't you had enough of this troll?

[ileus]

7. An ignore drive bye...

The op can't even view any replies in this group. (Unless they're 2a regressives)

[SecularMotion]

9. Hi follower

[clffrdjk]

10. I don't really follow, you just start soooo many threads that I can't help but notice.

Why don't you try commenting or answering a question for once?

[SecularMotion]

12. There's so much gun violence and so little time. I can't keep up with it some days.

You could lend a hand and start your own posts instead of just whining about it.

[clffrdjk]

14. This police abuse of power falls under gun violence how?

Surly with so much gun violence you could find something, oh I don't know, related to gun violence and not the abuse of power? Wouldn't that be a better use of your time?

Me I keep my posts limited to discussions that I care/know enough about to actually comment on.

[SecularMotion]

15. Self-defense from animals is now a topic of discussion in GC&RKBA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172138564

[clffrdjk]

16. And how is this self defense?

[SecularMotion]

17. Discuss

[clffrdjk]

18. You are the one saying it fits the terms of this group.

So yes please elaborate so we can discuss.

[SecularMotion]

19. Was it self-defense or not?

[clffrdjk]

20. Nope

And as such does not fit the terms of this group, please delete and refrain from further posts of this nature. I am sure you would have banned me by long before now if I posted, in the manner you are now, in your group.

[SecularMotion]

21. You're not the host of this group

If you have a problem with my posts, please use alert and don't disrupt threads with your whining.

[clffrdjk]

22. You asked a question and I answered it, was I wrong? How so?

So why do you think the cops actions were self defense?
Come on defend your post.

[SecularMotion]

24. Where did I say I agreed with the cops?

The cop felt threatened by the dog and shot it in self-defense.

I think it's clear that the dog was not a threat.

[clffrdjk]

26. So when you posted this

15. Self-defense from animals is now a topic of discussion in GC&RKBA
You understood that the video in no way fits the description of self defense?
Then we get back to the question of how does this video fit the policies of this group?

Also holy cow congratulations that was your first post giving an opinion on the video. That is a big step.

[SecularMotion]

28. You're a bit slow on the draw

The cop claims it was self-defense. There was another video posted of a snowmobile rider confronting and shooting a moose. Not everyone agreed that was self-defense either.

And I won't be having further discussions with you if it requires explaining everything to you like you're a 5 year old.

[clffrdjk]

32. Where exactly in any of your posts has the cop claimed self-defense?

Are you making things up to try and prove some point?

As for the moose video you are right people argued both sides with this one it is not a question, nobody thinks it is self defense.

Oh look now you post something with the cop claiming self defense. I don't even think the cop believes that it was self defense and I would like to see a proper site of him claiming it is.

[SecularMotion]

33. See post #30

[clffrdjk]

35. So was I slow or are you a time traveler?

Last edited Mon Mar 3, 2014, 07:10 PM - Edit history (2)

Oh shit, for me to be able to read a post that you haven't wrote yet I would have to be the time traveler. Shit well guys I promise to only use my time traveling abilities for good and will not use your future posts against you.

[gejohnston]

29. Look at the cop's body language

at first I thought he was being an asshole, but after watching the whole thing, not so sure. The cop did not feel threatened by the dog, so it was not self defense. Watch the body language after the shot. It shows grief and anger. Most likely, he was ordered to shoot it. for whatever reason. Possibly it showed the later stages of rabies or it attacked someone. Either way, it wasn't self defense, thus using the term "SYG" was lazy at best. It was a summary execution. Can you tell the difference between self defense and summery execution?

[SecularMotion]

30. Missouri man who sued police officer for shooting dog agrees to settlement

Mays' dog, an 18-month-old bulldog named "Cammie," was reported as a dog-at-large on the day of the fatal encounter; a neighbor claimed that the dog had growled at her daughter.

By the time that officers responded, Cammie had been secured to a trailer. The officers removed her from the tether and proceeded to utilize a catch pole to restrain her.

As the frightened dog struggled to get away, LaGrange police officer Doug Howell drew his gun and shot her in the shoulder. The dog dropped to the ground and was not moving, aside from her wagging tail.

Moments later, Officer Howell fired a shot into Cammie's head, killing her.Howell claimed that he shot Cammie because he feared for his life.

http://www.examiner.com/article/missouri-man-who-sued-police-officer-for-shooting-dog-agrees-to-settlement

[gejohnston]

31. cop can claim whatever he wants,

doesn't make it true. The same is true with Mike Dunn. His body language doesn't show any evidence of fear. If the cop couldn't grasp the concept that the dog couldn't escape the catch pole, then he is too stupid to be a cop. Maybe he should be a biology teacher like this dim bulb:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/opinion/when-may-i-shoot-a-student.html?_r=0
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/how_greg_hampikian_abuses_two_positions_of_trust_in_serially_misrepres/

[clffrdjk]

36. I am not a big cop supporter, but watching that video a second time he looks extremely pissed off

Last edited Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:15 PM - Edit history (1)

That he had to shoot the dog. I don't know if he was ordered to or was pissed off at the owner but I can't imagine him not thinking the situation was under control at the time. If he wanted to shoot that dog he could have done it while it was still on the chain.

[Eleanors38]

34. Baiting. Trolling. Not even up-to-date.

[clffrdjk]

37. I didn't even see that

May 2013, so much for the "so much gun violence so little time" line eh.

[SecularMotion]

38. Another follower

Just for the record, gun trolls are banned more often than any other troll on DU.

You're an endangered species.

[gejohnston]

39. definition of internet troll

is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

Eleanors38 certainly does not fit that description. It seems that the term is misused by intellectually lazy partisans and ideologues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[SecularMotion]

40. That's a good description of a right wing gun troll on a forum for liberals.

[gejohnston]

41. you missed the part where I said

It seems that the term is misused by intellectually lazy partisans and ideologues.

Claiming that someone who is for gun rights (or any other one or two things) is "right wing" regardless of their view on anything else are intellectually lazy partisans or ideologues. Views on complex issues are inseparably linked that if you accept one, you must accept them all is exactly how the intellectually lazy thinks. What I'm really saying is the E38, and the other pro gun liberals, are not only liberals, but also capable of thinking for themselves and look at each of the issues and augments on their own merits.
Let me ask you this: Does that mean that Gov Jerry Brown is a closet right winger because he isn't a gun prohibitionist and is a gun owner himself? Does that mean Bloomberg is right wing because he is anti union, against Wall Street regulation or liberal because he is the gun prohibition lobby? How about Shannan Watts who is MDA? Is she right wing because she was a Monsanto PR executive before starting her own firm VoxPop or is she liberal because Bloomberg is paying VoxPop to be MDA? Is Bill Maher a liberal because he is for gun control, or is he right wing because he is a misogynistic, bigoted blowhard?
Other examples: Carol McCarthy ran as a Democrat only because she lost a Republican primary. Her first two terms as a Democrat, she was still a registered Republican. Until the last few years, she voted with the Republicans and every issue except for gun control. Then there is DiFi. While she is a progressive, I'll give you that, but she isn't a liberal given her disdain for the 1A and 4A as well as the 2A.
Does that mean Bill O'Reilly is a liberal because his views on guns is closer to yours than mine?

[ileus]

6. And some 2a regressives only support the police

Being armed...

[rocktivity]

8. The dog was not only NOT presenting a lethal threat when the cop fired

Last edited Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:19 AM - Edit history (1)

but she was STANDING PERFECTLY STILL! Tazing her wouldn't have been enough?


rocktivity

[lumpy]

11. Sickening, as the dog was wagging his tail while in submission on the ground.

Killed by a couple of wimps.

[SoCalMusicLover]

13. Give That Pig A Paid Vacation And A Doughnut Stat!

[gejohnston]

23. standing his ground would imply

that the cop was defending himself without trying to retreat first. Since this is a summery execution and not self defense, your OP is inaccurate, if not inflammatory, and works only for the uninformed.

[PumpkinAle]

27. OMFG - they shot the poor dog TWICE

there was absolutely no need - no need.

A dog when caught on one of those poles will resist, but it was calming down.

What is it with blood lust and our members of police forces?

The wrong type of people are employed and attracted to and hired by the police / sheriff offices. Something needs to change.

[Boom Sound 416]

42. What are the facts of this situation

Oh, don't know.

Ok, let's just make them up as we go.

Awesome!!

[beevul]

43. This seems apropriate...

This seems appropriate, given that anti-gun-ness seems to be a religion these days.

[gejohnston]

44. a couple of questions,

how well do you understand SYG or any other self defense law? Do you understand the reasonalbe person standard? The reason I'm asking because I'm not sure if you chose the title out of not knowing or setting out flame bait.

I'm betting not at all. If dogs were "persons", in the same way ancient Greeks viewed dolphins, (and assuming this were a private citizen or if cops were held to the same standard, which we both know they are held to a much lower standard) chances are, he would be in jail. If the dog were a human, it would be a summery execution of a handcuffed suspect.
Unless, of course, the DA had someone like John "ignore the evidence, just follow your heart" Guy cross examine him on the stand. Guy's cross examination of Dunn was, well, quite weak and lead to the hung jury.
While the cop can claim he felt threatened, I doubt the jury will find that his claim reaches the reasonable person standard for fear of Imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm. Granted, in most states it is up to the State to disprove his claim of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. That applies to SYG and duty to retreat jurisdictions equally except one, unless the law changed in the past year. That is Ohio. In Ohio, the defendant had to or has to prove that he acted in self defense by preponderance of the evidence. The cop doesn't meet that standard either. Based on the comments here and what is shown on the video, the cop would have a hard time at trial.