Leland Yee should be nominated for an award

[Token Republican]

Leland Yee has led the fight in California against guns. He has sponsored legislation that would strengthen California's already strict gun control laws even more. Sen Leland Yee fought against the dreaded bullet button loophole that allows gun owners to legally skirt California's assault weapon ban.

A google search of Sen. Leland Yee will tell more about this amazing man and his character.

[petronius]

1. He deserves a 'Thank you!' note from MAIG, anyway

Something along the lines of:

Hey, a lot of our mayors have turned out to be shady, but at least none of us got indicted for gun trafficking! Thanks for making us look not so bad! Good luck with the whole court thing...

(Caveat: innocent until proven guilty, of course. Senator Shark-fin is entitled to the BotD, same as anyone.)

[pablo_marmol]

35. +1! First thing that went through my mind when I heard the news tonight

on the radio on my drive home from work.

Great timing Leland, what with California poised to go shall-issue. Gotta believe that Kamala Harris had a couple of stiff drinks today.

[Token Republican]

2. What do you mean?

Leland Yee is my hero. He certainly is not involved with gun trafficking. What lies. I bet you're going to say he was arrested or something.

Leland Yee is the model politician to lead the fight against the NRA. He is the role model for every MAIG member, who can only hope to reach the same level of moral character as Sen. Yee.

I wish Sen. Yee the very best. The fight to stamp out guns would suffer a terrible blow if anything happened to Sen. Yee.

[denverbill]

3. Why are you replying to your own post on this?

Why are you asking people to do a google search on him when you know damned well he was arrested today? Anyone who reads DU already knows that, and 90% of DUers will say good riddance to any corrupt legislator, unlike Republicans, to whom corruption and bribery seem like badges of honor.

He may have been great on guns policies, but it doesn't alter the fact that he was corrupt, and if he is guilty, he needs to go.

[gejohnston]

5. Oh I don't know

maybe it has something to do with Sen Shark Fin falsely accusing environmentalists of racism because they wanted to do something about shark finning and the fish being driven to extinction.
https://www.baycitizen.org/news/politics/leland-yee-opposes-shark-fin-bill/

[denverbill]

6. If that was the case, why post in RKBA?

Frankly, the only reason I can see for 'token_republican' to
1) Post a random praise article for a Democratic legislator who was just indicted
2) Urge DUers to do a search on him, knowing damn well that the search would show he was indicated
3) Reply to your own post, asking incredulously about implications of him being arrested and involved in gun trafficking, which neither prior post mentioned.

is because he
1) wants DUers to read negative articles about Democrats
2) believes in few, if any, progressive principles
3) enjoys sowing dissension on this board.

But I'm sure that's the only example I can find of him posting articles which put a Democratic legislator in negative light. Except for this one a few minute earlier:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=141006

I can tolerate honest Republicans. What I can't tolerate is fake moderates accidentally replying to their own posts knowing full damn well he was pointing DUers to an article about the senator being indicted. Maybe he forgot to change user ids before replying.

An 'honest_republican' would have posted a direct link to the indictment, and asked DUers to condemn the guy, which they should if he is guilty.

[Token Republican]

9. Some would agree with you

others might be more careful if they had a post hidden for quoting something in an original post that remains.

But I want to be a good member of DU and follow all the rules. Would you be willing to help me?

[gejohnston]

10. only he knows the answer to that

I first heard of Yee over the shark fin issue.

[denverbill]

7. IMO, he probably has multiple DU user IDs and meant to sign on with his other ID and reply.

[Token Republican]

8. My reply

was supposed to be towards petronius. I hit reply to thread instead of reply to poster.

You're all over my posts tonight. I hope everything is OK with you and you're able to calm down.

[gejohnston]

12. I actually think he is lousy on gun policies,

given that his AWB made Olympic style target pistols like the Walther GSP an "assault weapon". But then, I tend to think many gun laws are irrational and illiberal anyway, like his bullet button ban.

BTW, he is also charged with gun smuggling. According to the complained filed by the FBI, he conspired with a gangster named Kwok Cheung “Shrimp Boy” Chow to smuggle $2million worth of guns, including machine guns and rocket launchers, from the Philippines and be routed to North Africa via New Jersey and Sicily.

[Eleanors38]

4. JUST NOW on PBS: Yee under investigation for corruption.

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. I despise Yee as much as anybody, but let's wait until evidence has been presented...

...in court before we start doing the happy dance over his downfall.

I live near Boston, and us Massholes know that there's sometimes a wide gap between
"what the FBI says" and "what the rest of the world sees"- reference one James "Whitey" Bulger...

[CreekDog]

13. the main problem with your screen name here is...

that it only makes sense if you're the only Republican in this group.

highly unlikely.

[hack89]

14. Because we know that only repukes own guns

[CreekDog]

15. no, that's not why

[hack89]

16. To you and the denizens of castle Bansalot it is.

You constantly try to paint those that disagree with you as racists right wingers indifferent to the suffering of others. You are not as bad as Hoyt but it is clear you relish the culture wars and have no interest in rational discussion or finding some middle ground. Which is fine - your misplaced sense of moral superiority aside, you are a good opponent and I enjoy the give and take.

[CreekDog]

17. do you think RKBA is the model of racial sensitivity and liberal politics that DU should follow?

please let us know.

should DU's posts on race, race relations, liberal policies and issues, should they be more like what's found in this group or should this group be more like the rest of DU, ideologically?

you'll dodge answering this, obviously, but might as well give it a try.

[hack89]

19. Sure. But the fact we like to post here says nothing other than we like guns

It is the fact that you don't like guns that makes us RW. It is your problem, not ours.

Dems should be open to discussion - don't you think the heavy handed silencing of dissent in Bansalot represents an authoritarian streak that does not reflect well on a progressive board? Doesn't the fact that Bansalot is dead and sterile tell you that it is you that is out of touch?

[CreekDog]

21. would you like the trolls that were banned from the gun control group reinstated?

is that what you'd like? at least you'd have more people to agree with you.

the main obstacle to that is the 22 people banned by that group were banned from DU shortly thereafter for being gun trolls.

so let me ask you again, do you want those people reinstated by both DU and the gun control group? yes or no?

[hack89]

22. No. Unban the long time DU members

Give us the same access we give you.

[CreekDog]

24. why are you asking me?

i'm not a host there, i didn't block anyone there.

you don't want me to lump you in with others that post as you do, well, how about not just assuming i run that group when i don't even host it?

[hack89]

25. Would you support unbanning long time DU posters? Nt

[Straw Man]

43. Wrong.

the main obstacle to that is the 22 people banned by that group were banned from DU shortly thereafter for being gun trolls.

I was banned there very swiftly, and I've never been banned from DU. In fact, I think I've only had one post hidden ever -- maybe two. I object to being called a troll, not that you're likely to give a shit about that.

I've been a Democrat all my adult life. I canvassed for Eugene McCarthy before I was old enough to vote. That doesn't mean that I have to subscribe to your culture-war prohibitionist views on firearms ownership.

[CreekDog]

44. No, I'm correct. 22 people blocked by that group were banned by DU later

that is correct. don't mislead people here.

[Straw Man]

52. No, you're wrong. Please note the original wording.

You said this. Note the use of the definite article "the":

the main obstacle to that is the 22 people banned by that group were banned from DU shortly thereafter for being gun trolls.

This indicates, to those that know how the English language works, that a total of 22 people were banned from that group and subsequently from DU altogether. This is absolutely untrue. A larger number were banned from the group, and a subset of 22 from that larger number were banned from DU altogether.

You argued that reinstatement would be impossible due to the subsequent total ban. This is not the case for a number of those banned, myself included. You misstated the case, whether accidentally or deliberately.

No, I'm correct. 22 people blocked by that group were banned by DU later

that is correct. don't mislead people here.

No, you're not correct, as I proved above. Your second statement is correct, but is not the same as your first. Omitting "the" changes the meaning. Your first statement was incorrect, as I pointed out.

You are not the one to lecture others about misleading people.

[CreekDog]

61. no, you're wrong, "the 22" refers to the 22 i had been continually referring to in this very thread

but it doesn't matter. every post of yours is just a Straw Man so nobody will take it seriously.

[Straw Man]

62. Continually? That was your first reference to them in this thread.

no, you're wrong, "the 22" refers to the 22 i had been continually referring to in this very thread

There was no "continually." You said what you said, and it means what it means? Doubling down on your denial? Call me all the names you want. It doesn't change the facts.

[CreekDog]

63. another Straw Man argument

waste of time.

[Straw Man]

64. When in doubt, hurl insults.

Sadly typical.

BTW, you might want to look up "straw man" in a rhetoric text. It appears that you don't know what it means. Hint: It has something to do with misrepresenting and exaggerating your opponent's positions. I quoted you verbatim. The meaning of your statements is undeniable.

[CreekDog]

65. if it's not a Straw Man argument, then who wrote it for you?

[Straw Man]

66. I see what you did there.

So you weren't criticizing my rhetoric -- just doubling down on the personal insults.

I'll take that as an admission of total defeat. Thank you.

[CreekDog]

67. i'm happy to let you win...it's what you came here to do

battle, win, defeat, you know, the usual.

[Straw Man]

68. Whereas you came here ...

... to spread misinformation, cast aspersions, and make no sense. Is that supposed to be somehow admirable?

[CreekDog]

69. I didn't come to DU nor to this gun group to "win"

I'm at DU because of the affinity with fellow liberals.

There are however, many people at DU who don't share this affinity and seek to score points against the general sentiments at DU.

[Straw Man]

71. You're missing a basic premise.

When you spread misinformation and people call you on it, that doesn't demonstrate "affinity" with anyone. If your "general sentiments" are based on falsehoods, they deserve to be addressed. What you call "winning," I call serving the truth.

[CreekDog]

70. In fact, I often try to stop the spread of misinformation and I've done that many times here

[Straw Man]

72. Not this time.

This time, you were the spreader. If I have succeeded in getting you to admit that, then I'm content. Win-win.

[CreekDog]

18. so you're saying the people blocked from "bansalot" should be unblocked?

really?

it turns out, half the people banned from the gun control group were trolls. you criticize me, did you criticize them?

and now you want them reinstated?

don't lecture me.

25 are currently blocked, 22 were banned that are now PPR'd.

here's the post where I did that math for you.

CreekDog (39,369 posts)
212. 22 were blocked that were later banned by DU

so that means of the 47 who have been blocked, 22, were later banned. 47% of those blocked by the GCRA group were later banned.

there isn't a group that has a better record of blocking trolls, than the GCRA group. of all those blocked, basically half turn out to be trolls.

1.AnotherMcIntosh
2.Remmah2
3.markeybrown
4.skinnytrees
5.WinniSkipper
6.Peter cotton
7.holdencaufield
8.Trunk Monkey
9.dklo
10.FamilyMan
11.slackmaster
12.CokeMachine
13.DemDealer
14.JohnnyBoots
15.premium
16.supernaut
17.rl6214
18.grok
19.MalcomInTheMiddle
20.ceonupe
21.tumtum
22.wild bird




http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4272215

[Eleanors38]

27. My God! How'd they miss me? Here & wide open!

Hello-o-o-o... anybody out there?

[CreekDog]

20. wow, you found another troll to defend, as you were defending him:

MIR Team (EarlG) banned Token Republican
Mail Message
Reason:
Troll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=312370&sub=trans

Real name:
DU Member for: 1 months, 4 days
Posts: 242
Recommendations: 0
Star member: No

[hack89]

23. I was criticizing you, not defending him

You are being a jerk. That's all.

[CreekDog]

29. of course you were criticizing me for criticizing him

as he was being PPR'd.

choices.

[hack89]

38. No - let's not forget you have a history in this forum.

That was my choice - to get in a jab at one of the more rude and offensive grabbers.

[CreekDog]

40. "grabber" how?

[hack89]

42. By your aggressive and rude labeling as RW of pro-gun Dems that deviate from your standard

by your support of an AWB. By your support of "may" issue vice "shall" issue. From your shrill indignation at any court case liberalizing gun rights. By your refusal to confront the more radical DU gun grabbers that not only do support gun confiscation but routinely smear gun owners as racist pre-criminals. You never take a moderate position.

That's how.

[CreekDog]

45. so "grabber" has nothing to do with my political positions?

no wonder you call so many people "grabbers".

[hack89]

46. I very seldom call people grabbers

mainly because guns are not that big a deal here - the vast majority of DU'rs don't care that much.

Now the folks that hang out at Bansalot are grabbers - posters trying to impose some imaginary progressive purity on gun discussions at DU.

As for your political motivations - we are both Democrats. My position on guns is a Democratic party one with a few exceptions. So how about you stop trying to smear pro-gun Dems as right wingers?

[CreekDog]

47. well that's fine, call me whatever you want

people on DU generally know what i stand for and if you lie about me it just makes you look bad.

[hack89]

48. That's the funny thing though - I am not lying about you.

as you say, your history is here for all to see.

[CreekDog]

49. you are lying by calling me a "grabber"

when i am not.

[hack89]

50. Do you support an AWB? Would it be retroactive? nt

[CreekDog]

51. well see, you called me the name before asking me

what's wrong with this picture?

i've mainly argued against the "gun culture" and argued against guns and/or violence being the solution to problems and argued the advantages of fewer people being armed --but that's a lot different than actually trying to ban guns.

[hack89]

53. So you do not support an AWB? Then I apologize for calling you a grabber.

I won't do it again.

[CreekDog]

54. not a retroactive ban, no

but by the "grabbing" standard, taking of any illegal gun, even a fully automatic weapon would be "grabbing".

but you know what? this is all bullshit.

[hack89]

56. Don't be silly

of course illegal guns must be confiscated.

[CreekDog]

57. then by your own standard, I will call you a "grabber" from now on

there is no difference between confiscation of one kind of illegal gun versus confiscation of another illegal gun.

Grabber!

[hack89]

58. You seem to be losing your cool for some reason. Relax - take off the hair shirt.

grabber has never been associated with people confiscating illegal weapons - even you should know that. Everyone here in RKBA supports confiscating illegal weapons - it is only in your Bansalot inspired strawman universe where pro-gun Dems support the proliferation of illegal guns to criminals.

Would it make you feel better if I recognize your moral superiority in some small way?

[CreekDog]

59. so you're saying you just don't want the list of prohibited weapons to grow by even one?

i'm still going to call you a grabber, because you are one.

[hack89]

60. You go right ahead. We are now on the same team it appears.

and no - I can't think of any weapons that need to be added to the list. What did you have in mind?

[SQUEE]

39. And those who called him on his BS early on?

Do we get your Left Enough seal of approval.

Not everyone with guns is a RWer, simple, solid and tue.

I reject your asinine claim that my stance on firearms even falls in the Left v. Right spectrum.

As for the President being a yardstick on my Democraticness...
When he was defending traditional marriage, I was supporting marriage equality for all,
When he was bailing out Wall Street I was supporting friends in OWS with training on how to break a stomp and drag and helping other protesters with cheap and effective protective gear.
When he was sending soldiers to fight and die in Afghanistan I was protesting as a Vet Against War.
Gitmo is still open, and I still support Amnesty International with time and money.

[Eleanors38]

26. Lee charged with (ahem, brup, ffft) gun-running.

[CreekDog]

30. no, no, Lee wasn't

Chinese names don't all sound alike. You really can tell the difference between Yee and Lee.

[gejohnston]

31. but Yee is being charged with it among other things.

According to the 154 page affidavit, he conspired with a gangster named Kwok Cheung Chow to smuggle $2 million worth of guns, including machine guns and rocket launchers, from the Philippines to be routed through the US on their way to North Africa.

[CreekDog]

32. try to pay attention. Eleanors38 referred to Lee.

Lee is not even a part of the story.

[gejohnston]

33. Misspelling, so what?

They do it to my last name all the time. In my case, it changes the ethnic origin.
Reading through the document, it seems that some of the guns were going to North Africa via New Jersey, most would be sold on the US black market. If I read the complaint correctly, it claims Yee introduced the undercover FBI agent with the weapons trafficker, whom Yee claimed to have known for a long time.

[CreekDog]

36. no, it's not a mispelling, it's a different person

Yee is our State Senator and Lee is the Mayor of SF.

the news story is about Yee, the article quoted is about Yee. If Eleanors38 wants to talk about Yee, he should get the name right.

[Eleanors38]

34. Do you deny Yee was charged with gun running? Yees or no?

I'll Leeve it up to yew 2 Deeny the obvious. BTW,loo are you steel trying to catch up with my far more advanced leefty beeleefs?

[CreekDog]

37. No I don't. I deny that you knew who you were talking about

when you first got the name wrong.

and since the Mayor is Lee and this State Senator, mine in fact, Yee is someone completely different, I think getting the name right matters.

as for your "lefty" credentials. I have no idea. All I know is that you rarely talk about anything "lefty" here on DU, with your energy, interest and passion almost exclusively for guns and gun issues and almost exclusively to the right of the party and the president.

[Eleanors38]

41. "All I know." Yup. What you read on the innertube.

You need to get out, work up a sweat, contribute money to a cause, volunteer in a campaign. But instead...

[alp227]

28. Does Yee not understand what happened to a certain former governor of California?

Sheesh I thought he would know better because of Iran-Contra. And I've lived in CA for years but never suspected that Leland Yee was associated with local gangs.

Edit to add the Sopranos intro because its lyrics as SO fitting:

[gejohnston]

55. I nominate him for the best

reincarnation of Big Tim Sullivan.