Do you perceive a difference?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

The term "school shooting" means something to me and that connotative meaning is a bit different from "shooting at a school". Please complete the sentence based on your own perceptions:

For me, school shooting...

16 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	...implies a shooting involving students and/or faculty on campus during classes or activities.
	14 (88%)
	...means the same thing as shooting at a school.
	2 (13%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[edgineered]

1. Yes, I do perceive a difference.

You asked a question, then explained your view, pointing out that you cannot perceive the difference. Maybe your question should have been, "do you think like me?"

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

2. Actually...

...I do see these phrases as having different meanings. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

My view:
The term "school shooting" means something to me and that connotative meaning is a bit different from "shooting at a school".

[edgineered]

3. OK, now I click the pass button,

kind of like third party voting?

must leave

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. Cool

[ManiacJoe]

5. They mean two different things.

However, the folks who put together the current "report" are depending on the confusion.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. Oh what?

Next you'll be claiming that "assault weapons" and "assault rifles" are two different things.

[ManiacJoe]

15. You have the right idea.

School shooting: shooting involving students and/or faculty on campus during classes or activities.

Shooting at a school: shooting that takes place within the bounds of school property outside of school hours. For example, in the school parking lot at 9pm.

Yes, "assault weapons" and "assault rifles" are two different things. Every definition of "assault weapon" ever imagined purposely excludes assault rifles from the classification.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. re: Every definition of "assault weapon"...

Well... except when the media uses them interchangeably in the same news story.

[ManiacJoe]

19. Looking for technical accuracy in the disinterested media

is about the same as expecting it from a legislative body, be it guns or medicine or many other topics.

[blueridge3210]

20. Not disinterested.

Given the constant spin on the stories aired, the bulk of the media has a decidedly anti-gun, pro-control bias. Thus the willingness to interchange "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" and to take at face value the "74 school shootings" meme until the utter falsehood of the number was rubbed in their faces. Even if it simply a case of "confirmation bias" the effect is the same; the media hears what they agree with and report it without analysis or question.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

22. As I quote...

"...removes the awareness of other possibilities...removes the sense that there is an outside."

Not only can they not think outside their box, they deny there is a box.

[Duckhunter935]

6. totally different

meanings. It is indeed intentional to mislead.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

11. For the most part...

...I would agree. Further, those without deliberate intentions to mislead are, in some cases, following those that are trying to mislead and standardize the phrase "school shooting" as any shooting taking place on school property.

[blueridge3210]

7. One key element is how the sentence is "framed" so to speak.

So, if the sentence is "There have been __#__ school shootings since Newtown" the clear implication is that all shootings cited are generally similar to the Newtown tragedy. If an analysis of the incidents reveal a large number to be after hours shootings; gang shootings near a campus, suicides on the campus not during hours, etc. it is reasonable to assume the numbers are being presented with the intent to deceive.

If, on the other hand, one were to say "Since the incident at Sandy Hook, the city of Newtown has experienced __#__ of shootings" it is reasonable to infer the number cited is global and not intended to be interpreted as similar in nature to the Sandy Hook tragedy.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Agreed n/t

[NYC_SKP]

8. Users' intended meaning, IMO: "Mass shooting at a K-12 school during school hours, children killed."

confiscate all firearms immediately.

They are liars, willing liars, it's a crying shame.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

13. Sad commentary. n/t

[Eleanors38]

9. In terms of the FBI's four-or-more murdered, how many school

mass murders have there been since Sandy Hook?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. I'm not sure

[Eleanors38]

21. The reason I asked is because the knife/gun mass murder in CA

may be the only mass murder that involved a school since Sandy Hook. But the MSM and controllers seem to be manufacturing a new reality: "School shooting," "Active Shooter," to replace the 4+ FBI standard for "mass shooting," wholly in an operating school. And evidently, if a gun is one of the weapons used, it qualifies as a straight-up mass "shooting."

MSM seems to be servicing controller interests by increasingly going into crisis mode when a gun is used for Any reason Anywhere in or near a school Anywhere in the nation

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. I don't know about "school shootings"

I'm not keeping track. MSM will always serve pro-control since "if it bleeds, it leads."

It is time to think more outside the box for both sides of the issue.

[Eleanors38]

24. Just what is the issue? Warring enemies seems good enough at this point.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

25. Which issue?

I was addressing kids shot in school with my 'think outside the box' comment. Lots of controllers seem to think more control is the answer. I believe that control is a myth.

Schools of all sizes have experienced shootings from the one room school in Nickel Mines to VA Tech with enrollment over 29,000. A common theme is that when the cops arrive, the shooter(s) kill themselves. That leads to the conclusion that cutting response time for LEO arrival would decrease the number of victims. A good idea but most seem to agree that, while elusive, prevention would be better than a cure.

The only ban that will work is one that is enforced by an armed security force around the perimeter and roving plain clothes security within. Restructuring every school in the country to operate like the White House is bound to be unfeasible and unpopular. Measures that go half way will be half effective.

The three types of lies: regular lies, damn lies and statistics. I don't like the unqualified "shooting at a school" headlines because of the folks trying to use the numbers to stir the pot.

More to follow later.

[Eleanors38]

28. 2A defenders are left with the task of defining issues & problems

surrounding crime and violence, AND with the task of explaining "why not?" to every sundry control/ban proposal. It should be the other way around.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

29. A tough job but someone has to do it.

[Eleanors38]

30. Heh. A topic worthy of talk since Sandy Hook:

Have things improved in terms of would-be mass murders thwarted; neutralizing of the killers, casualties lessened, responses quickened? If we can say "yes" to these questions, that might give us some direction when evaluating security measures at schools.

I said in these threads immediately after that mass murder that IF the issue is stopping & mitigating these school tragedies, then measures must be taken IN THE SCHOOLS. It would seem measures Have been taken. We need to explore what might have worked.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

31. Terminology

Most pursuits, occupations and activities speak to themselves in their own "language". This evolves out of a quest for precision, brevity and a need for detail.

I can understand any average joe who doesn't have all of this committed to memory. I can even stretch to accepting that legislators will have advisers explaining the terminology and helping to write certain technical laws. I can't accept that many legislators and elected officials have no clue about some elements of basic functionality nor the apparent interest in learning.

[krispos42]

16. If a drug deal goes bad at 11pm Saturday in the parking lot of an out-of-session school...

...that is, technically, a "school shooting". But the connotation of "school shooting" is, at least to me, that it occurred on school grounds, while school was in session or open for school-sanctioned activities, and it involved a student, a member of the faculty, or a member of the staff.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. Agreed n/t

[beevul]

26. At one time, there were thousands of school shootings all over America every day.

At one time, there were thousands of school shootings all over America every day.

Back when a large number of schools had on campus rifle ranges.


Isn't equivocation fun?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

27. I participated in a few

(Varsity and ROTC rifle teams all 4 years of college.)