Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumBan all Guns!!
Gun owners are violent and need to be disarmed.
Largest Gun Study Ever: More Guns, More Murder
The largest study of gun violence in the United States, released Thursday afternoon, confirms a point that should be obvious: widespread American gun ownership is fueling Americas gun violence epidemic.
The study, by Professor Michael Siegel at Boston University and two coauthors, has been peer-reviewed and is forthcoming in the American Journal of Public Health. Siegel and his colleagues compiled data on firearm homicides from all 50 states from 1981-2010, the longest stretch of time ever studied in this fashion, and set about seeing whether they could find any relationship between changes in gun ownership and murder using guns over time.
Since we know that violent crime rates overall declined during that period of time, the authors used something called fixed effect regression to account for any national trend other than changes in gun ownership. They also employed the largest-ever number of statistical controls for other variables in this kind of gun study: age, gender, race/ethnicity, urbanization, poverty, unemployment, income, education, income inequality, divorce rate, alcohol use, violent crime rate, nonviolent crime rate, hate crime rate, number of hunting licenses, age-adjusted nonfirearm homicide rate, incarceration rate,and suicide rate were all accounted for.
Gun Owners of America director would be 'kind of glad' if lawmakers feared violence from his organization
WASHINGTON This gun nut makes the NRAs mouthpiece seem tame by comparison.
Larry Pratt, executive director of the group Gun Owners of America, was quoted Tuesday as saying hes kind of glad if lawmakers fear violence from members of his organization.
The crack sparked outrage from Democrats and drew a rebuke from the husband of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), whose promising political career was cut short when an assassin shot her in 2011.
More shooting deaths in states with more gun owners
(snip)
Covering 30 years (1981-2010) in all 50 states, the report shows a robust correlation between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides. For each 1 percentage point increase in the prevalence of gun ownership, the state firearm homicide rate increases by 0.9 percent, the authors found.
Understanding the relationship between the prevalence of gun ownership and therefore the availability of guns, and firearm-related mortality is critical to guiding decisions regarding recently proposed measures to address firearm violence, the study authors say
10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Myth #2: Guns don't kill peoplepeople kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more peoplewith guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.


blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)Loudly
(2,436 posts)Being a popular misconception, it gets eagerly pandered to by both politicians and judges alike.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Sure, wishing-away rights worked so well for B*sh & Cheney, why shouldn't gun-grabbers "Shares" the strategy...
-app
It's BS.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)so you will go around and help the governments confiscation force. Lets see how that works for you.
Did a lot of work in the cut and paste
DonP
(6,185 posts)Business as usual. Yup.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)liberal news sources quoted on a liberal web site, omg!
DonP
(6,185 posts)... We had some guidelines in the Gungeon.
Nobody wasted our time by posting NRA or SAF "research" and nobody wasted our time posting Brady or MAIG "research", since both were highly prejudiced sources. For the most part we even eschew studies that aren't peer reviewed like the crap Hemenway spews for dollars.
That's why you find us primarily using CDC and FBI reports and studies in our discussions. I guess some people are incapable of finding unbiased sources to base their POV on. Oh well, not much loss there.
We'll be sure to give your studies from Mother Jones et. al. all the credibility they, and you, deserve.
Now excuse us while we all follow up on the new DC Carry laws and the forthcoming Peruta decision.
Ah, yes the tide is turning!
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,615 posts)Seeking the facts on which to base opinions and decisions is the logical and scientific method. I often approach controversial issues by reading the ill founded propaganda from both sides to find the type(s) of scientific and statistical failures that are touted. This information is useful when reading other opinions based on 'supposed' research.
Those that have deep prejudices will cling to any type faulty data just to resist change and maintain some comfortable ways to qualify who the "bad guys" are.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Please don't confuse them with facts or actual data from an unbiased source.
Just leave them and their built in prejudices alone, so they can simply hate and demean something (and somebody) with a "clear conscience".
No different thinking than Climate Deniers, Fundies and racists from the '50's and '60's. People who "just know" from their "common sense" what's right for them, society and certainly for you and me too.
But on DU you're allowed to express those kind of sentiments if it's about guns and gun owners. On DU2 Skinner rode herd on it with his demand for civility, but here it's "slipped off the choke chain" it seems.
The more gun control, or should I say "gun safety", loses at the ballot box, in the legislatures and in the courts, the angrier, more desperate and spiteful they become.
Now we're hearing another round of "Blood in the Streets" about the new DC carry laws.
How many times have we heard that from the other side? 15, 20 at least, and it never, ever comes to pass, so they move the goal posts and conflate gang shootings with CCW people.
I'm past taking any of it personally most of the time and I can tune out most of it. The "You gun people want more dead babies" stuff still pisses me off, but for the most part I file them with the DU poster in GD who wanted drones to kill any gun owners that didn't turn in their guns to the government immediately after Sandy Hook.
I just sit back and focus on winning individual issues in local town halls and public forums when the opportunities arise. They sit back and post and wait for Bloomberg's next check.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)It is easy to tell who the bad guys are.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)not law abiding gun owners.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,615 posts)...as the ones you're debating and discussing these issues with?
Really?
ileus
(15,396 posts)samsingh
(17,968 posts)that doesn't fit the gun lovers view is biased
but wait, let's quote the nra, repugs, and gun lovers.
DonP
(6,185 posts)What's your excuse?
samsingh
(17,968 posts)hack89
(39,180 posts)they make up two thirds of gun deaths and most of the states on the high end of the scale have high suicide rates.
Why not fix mental health care in America?
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)It's like asking why hard-right politicians in Israel quietly supported Hamas against Fatah -- violence suits their political agenda more than peace ever will.
samsingh
(17,968 posts)with Obamacare, how do you propose to mandate healthcare for the mentally ill? and those that refused? Would you force them to take drugs anyway? What about the right to freedom?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)never stopped the gun grabbers? Why aren't you posing these same, supposedly principled arguments to the OP?
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Obamacare has done a lot, but the resources are still very limited. I'd suggest targeted grants to encourage more students to study psychiatry, psychology, addiction medicine, etc., exceptionally strong privacy protections for those receiving mental health care, and a PR effort to publicize mental health and addiction treatment benefits available through Medicaid and Medicare as well as insurance. At the moment, the demand for treatment is much higher than the supply. When we've made progress on that, then I'll start worrying about steering reluctant people towards help.
samsingh
(17,968 posts)hack89
(39,180 posts)Short of a total ban.
samsingh
(17,968 posts)that someone wants to kills themselves. Stabbing oneself with a knife or some other means may not be as easy as pulling a trigger.
hack89
(39,180 posts)samsingh
(17,968 posts)respect for guns actually. they are not accessories
hack89
(39,180 posts)Is this just a heartfelt desire or do you actually have some ideas on how to achieve it?
samsingh
(17,968 posts)everyone gets shot down by the nra and gun supporters.
- more thorough background checks
- no stand your ground laws to support sanctioned murder
- more controls over sales
- liability for stupid storage of guns when they are used for a crime
there are so many ideas proposed - everyone, like the ones above, will be refuted that they don't work. Yet other countries don't have the same level of gun violence we do.
hack89
(39,180 posts)which is the biggest problem because it accounts for two thirds of all gun deaths. The demographic for gun suicide (white middle aged men) makes it very unlikely that anything on your list will reduce suicide deaths.
Btw - SYG is not sanctioned murder. It has been law in many states for decades. It is not a huge problem.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)as compared to Illinois who has 20 percent ownership and has a weekly killing spree. There is something wrong with folks getting killed but not sure that gun ownership is really the root of the problem or Wyoming would be having huge problems.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)some people who come to work in the oil field and coal mines can't handle the constant wind, high altitude, snow, vast areas of wilderness, no big cities, etc. Hence, the suicide rate.
Then there are us sagebrush hugging wild horse lovers that grew up here.
samsingh
(17,968 posts)samsingh
(17,968 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)I mean aside from posting misleading at best or outright lies at worst on the internet?
Will you be volunteering for the gun confiscation squads yourself?
Get back to me when you have the 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4 of the states for getting the 2nd Amendment changed or removed.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Krispos42, this OP is broad brushing all gun owners as violent, of which there are many on DU who are gun owners.
My opinion? Lock it.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
Such a statement is instantly an insult and evidence not of progressive or enlightened thinking, but quite the opposite.
It is narrow-minded, broadbrushing, absurd in every way.
It is certainly NOT representative in any way of intelligent progressive thought.
I'm embarrassed for you and others who could even think such things, much less post them.
Wow.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)he's broad brushing all gun owners, of which there are plenty here on DU alone, and millions of Dems are gun owners.
But, that's up to Krispos42.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)They expose the very ugly underbelly of their movement and make us look brilliant and articulate by contrast.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)samsingh
(17,968 posts)and I see plenty of insults to the gun control movement all the time.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)We are not like many of them, on DU you'll see insults come at us far more often than from us.
On other sites, not so much, poo is flung in both directions, and I avoid those sites.
Sites I don't avoid include The Liberal Gun Club: http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
Progressive Gun Owners: http://www.progressiveguns.org/
American Gun Culture Report: http://www.americangunculturereport.com/
Liberals Gun Corner: http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/
Liberals With Guns: http://www.liberalswithguns.com/
Shoot from the Left Hip: http://shootfromthelefthip.com/
Blue Steel Democrats: http://bluesteeldemocrats.blogspot.com/
Pink Pistols: http://www.pinkpistols.org/
samsingh
(17,968 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)This is insulting and slanderous. Practically everyone in m family owns some sort of gun, and none of us has ever been violent toward anybody.
It is beyond disgusting that you refuse to recognize that people have the right to use a firearm to protect themselves in their own homes. If a bad guy breaks into my house, there is absolutely no reason I shouldn't be able to keep my family safe.
Was this OP serious, or are you going to these ridiculous extremes in an attempt at humorous satire?
IronGate
(2,186 posts)harping of BAN ALL GUNS meme throughout DU.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Obviously he is just having some fun posting flame bait. There is another group where he can fantasize about gun grabs to his heart's content.
DonP
(6,185 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Response to PowerToThePeople (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
krispos42
(49,445 posts)The more common a thing is, the more it will be used. This might explain the lack of snowmobile-related deaths in Florida.
I'd love to see a study where the gun-murder rate is compared to the gun-ownership rate. But I don't get that. I get study after study which pretty much completely ignores every single crime NOT committed with a gun.
I'd also love a study of crime rates compared to, say, high-school graduation rates, drug arrests, % of people with 2-years or more of higher education, etc.
Not this. "States with more people have more deaths!" "States with more cars have more car-related deaths!" "States with more tornadoes have more tornado-related deaths!"
spin
(17,493 posts)Forida does not have many snowmobile-related deaths but it does have a lot of lightning deaths.
ileus
(15,396 posts)On the other hand I did have a hell of a bad evening at the range. Didn't matter what I was shooting always....ALWAYS....High and to the Left.
M&P pro 9mm
Sig P220
M&P Shield 9mm
Don't know what was going on...after about 150 rounds I called it quits. Now to reload those and practice some dry fire exercises before next Tuesdays meeting.
sarisataka
(21,534 posts)If right handed you are pushing, left heeling. Both are from anticipating recoil.
Also make sure you have a clean follow through as that can magnify any error.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I almost always shoot a little bit left 3-5" from 10-15 yards.
I think one of my biggest lifetime problems when it comes to accuracy is the fact I'm left handed and shoot right handed. But I shoot my bow left handed...go figure.
It also appears that I can shoot my supers 10mm g20 better than any of my pistols.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)that there is an epidemic of gun mayhem.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)That's an exploding-head kind of statistic.
And that more people think that the opposite is true is not surprising.
The number of firearms available for sale to or possessed by U.S. civilians (about 310 million in 2009, according to the Congressional Research Service) has grown in recent years, and the 2009 per capita rate of one person per gun had roughly doubled since 1968. It is not clear, though, how many U.S. households own guns or whether that share has changed over time.

Great post, it should be its own OP.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)It doesn't matter what the facts are, if the grabbers (does the thread title now permit us to call them "grabbers"?) can create the impression things are worse they can move the ball even as they move the goalposts.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I refuse to let bad data and propaganda float around unchallenged.
There is actually quite a bit at stake.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)The spammers are following the lead of the media in creating the false impression that gun violence is ever-increasing.
And based on the fact that such a large percentage of the citizenry is blind of the facts, the strategy has clearly been a winning one.
Which is why I've decided to fight fire with fire my last few (identical) posts.
I was warned by private message that this behavior could get me banned. I wonder if the person who warned me cares about the fact that certain members spam the board with news of gun violence sans comment?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,615 posts)Isn't that like saying people with hammers tend to hammer more nails?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)...they're probably white but we can't see the man, but it's a man in the shadows....
Country music plays in the background...
So predictable.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,615 posts)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)That a user with the handle "power to the people" would take such a totalitarian stance..
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I guess only the power he would graciously grant
DonP
(6,185 posts)Maybe it's just me?
The same Over The Top flame bait statements and posts.
The same condescension in multiple forums.
The only thing missing is the slavish devotion to licking Bloomberg;'s boots at every opportunity.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Helps keep the checks coming in!
IronGate
(2,186 posts)His words are exactly why gun control groups are constantly thwarted in their efforts to enact new laws.
The NRA and other gun rights group should be thanking people like this OP for their help.