Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumTerminology turmoil
All from Wikipedia -
Assault rifle: An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles are currently the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Examples of assault rifles include the StG 44, AK-47 and the M16 rifle.
Automatic fire: An automatic firearm is a firearm which continuously fires rounds as long as the trigger is pressed and held and there is ammunition in the magazine/chamber. This is in contrast to a semi-automatic firearm which fires one round with each individual trigger pull.
Selective fire: A selective fire firearm has at least one semi-automatic and one automatic mode, which is activated by means of a selector which varies depending on the weapon's design.
Machine gun: A machine gun is a fully automatic mounted or portable firearm, usually designed to fire bullets in quick succession from an ammunition belt or magazine, typically at a rate of three to eighteen hundred rounds per minute.
An aspect of confusion starts here. Some current laws in the US refer to any full-auto firearm as a machine gun.
The term assault weapon was coined to be similar to the term assault rifle for the purposes of encompassing a large group of semi-auto firearms which also had some distinctive features.
Assault weapons: In the United States, assault weapon is a legal and political term used in firearms laws to define and restrict specific firearms. Definitions usually include semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine and one or more tactical, cosmetic, ergonomic, or safety features, such as a flash suppressor, pistol grip, or barrel shroud, respectively.
Magazine: A magazine is an ammunition storage and feeding device within or attached to a repeating firearm. Magazines can be removable (detachable) or integral to the firearm. The magazine functions by moving the cartridges stored in the magazine into a position where they may be loaded into the chamber by the action of the firearm. The detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip, although this is technically inaccurate. (Magazines are re-loadable and generally last for years.)
From Wikipedia under "assault weapon": Considerable debate continues in the United States on how assault weapons should be defined, whether or not they should be legally restricted more than other firearms, and even whether or not the term should be used at all. It has been asserted that the term is a media invention or intended by gun control activists to foster confusion with the public over differences between full automatic and semi-automatic firearms, while others argue that the term was promulgated by the firearms industry itself. The term is sometimes conflated with the term "assault rifle", which refers to military rifles capable of switching between semi-automatic and fully automatic fire.
Should the term Assault Weapon be eliminated from US laws?
13 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Yes, this term only adds confusion | |
12 (92%) |
|
No, current laws using the term are clear | |
1 (8%) |
|
0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)It is a meaningless term that does nothing to address the actual issue of criminal misuse or negligent use of firearms.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)Regardless of the poll results, as a terminology primer.
Knowledge is power.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...I don't believe any of the folks who may benefit would have any interest in reading it. I could be wrong about some and I'm sure several folks from the pro-control camp here are either already familiar enough or may indeed read the OP.
IMHO, many members avoid this group and stick with their mostly auto-pilot like plan to:
- stamp out guns
- sweep the streets
- make all gun owners financially responsible for any and all gun related crime
- ...
I accept that many people may have a reasons for their anti-gun prejudices. Many of those reasons are, IMHO, based on fear and/or anger. Anger is the kind of fuel you need to fire up a group into believing in an enemy. Fear of the unknown, fear of an enemy and fear of needing to rethink part of what people identify with as their system of beliefs are very daunting fears.
"Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men." - G.S. Patton, jr.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Any non-law enforcement individual who openly carries a gun into a public place is a person who really, really, really wants to use that firearm against another human being. Don't take chances with your life or the lives of your loved ones.
It gets even funnier when you realize they are responding to an OP that
contains the claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12627280
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Most of them are afraid to post here also where they could be challenged.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...I call 'em like I see 'em. If I don't see 'em, I make 'em up.
DonP
(6,185 posts)They must be, to remotely intuit the true feelings and desires of people they never see, never meet and brag about not knowing any in the first place.
If only they would use their "Super Powers" for good, instead of evil. Think of all the "pre-crime" they could stop.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The word assault has no possible positive connotation. Even the word "killing" is morally neutral as one can kill an intruder or kill for food gathering purposes. If the controllers felt they could politically get away with using the term "murder weapons" without beclowning themselves into oblivion I don't think they would hesitate for an instant. But they don't want to provoke people with such absolutist rhetoric to stop and actually survey real-world use of the rifles. "Assault" is provocative without being too provocative. It is meant to conjure emotions without provoking an in-depth examination of the issue. So, for one side it is the perfect term to employ and they will never stop using it.
derby378
(30,252 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Assault has two meanings. There is the meaning that describes a crime and the meaning that describes a military action. "Murder weapons"... good thought.
Often the task of making progress in legislation falls to the lowly and thankless of act convincing a popular and charismatic person that they don't understand what they're talking about.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)I smiled at that one also. nice
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Big change from all the Google dumps.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Were there any original thoughts rather than mostly a copy/paste from Wikipedia there might actually be more to discuss.
ileus
(15,396 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...until you can convince yourself.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)"Assault weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."
--Josh Sugarmann
There was a time when The Controllers didn't even attempt to hide their brazen dishonesty.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center: "A gun-control movement worthy of the name would insist that President Clinton move beyond his proposals for controls . . . and immediately call on Congress to pass far-reaching industry regulation like the Firearms Safety and Consumer Protection Act . . . [which] would give the Treasury Department health and safety authority over the gun industry, and any rational regulator with that authority would ban handguns." "Dispense With the Half Steps and Ban Killing Machines," Nov. 5, 1999 in the Houston Chronicle.
Dr. Arthur Kellerman, stated: "If youve got to resist, youre chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah." Health Magazine, March/April 1994.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)Criminologists James Wright and Peter Rossi (RIP) informed Jimmy Carter that the Gun Control Act of '68 had no measurable effect on crime and gun violence, and Bitterman thinks it's a good idea to push voters toward the GOP anyway. Brilliant!
And yeah......that Kellermann quote is great as well. Not too much hypocrisy!
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...rather than 'assault weapon' let's use the term heater. Popular from the early through mid twentieth century. You know back when gangsters had some class like Capone.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)"Semi-automatic" -- spoken in an ominous tone, and in a context designed to imply that they are super-duper-deadly-evil forms of guns.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...Get off my lawn!
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)as long as the looks are military like, it makes the rifle more scary.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)There's no end to it.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...it's not illegal to sell black electrical tape.
A black toy with black tape over the orange tip looks... yup, black.
Year before last I took my daughter's car in for emissions inspection. It passed the hose in the exhaust test but failed because the "check engine" light was on. (Not sure what was the cause but they discovered the check engine light lit spuriously due to a looses connection that began when she had the faulty stereo replaced.) So they charged an hour's labor for the diagnostic work and passed it.
Last year it lit again during the inspection and they were going to fail it and start diagnosing until I stopped them. (A different mechanic) I recounted the story from the prior year and said if I can have some electrical tape, I can fix the problem. I did my thing and he checked the light and it was no longer lit. He asked what I did. I said I put tape over the bulb.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)My Prius has over 180K miles but the light's been coming on.
In this state, there are laws against resetting as a courtesy, so I bought a $59 scanner and reset it myself.
Cat converter may be going bad or I might need a new gas cap, whatever, there's always a workaround.
PS, no smog test required or I'd find some other way.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...idiot lights for nothing.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...it has to be modern military style. That old fashioned Garand look won't cut it. To be scary today your Garand would need not just a bayonet lug but an actual bayonet.
Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)There are many words and terms that have different definitions depending on the situation of their use.
Usually when people insist that there is only one "true" definition they're not trying to clarify usage they're trying to control the terms of the debate.
Sorry that you're not comfortable with ambiguity, but as you become more proficient in using the language, you'll get used to it.
Straw Man
(6,623 posts)Usually when people insist that there is only one "true" definition they're not trying to clarify usage they're trying to control the terms of the debate.
Sorry that you're not comfortable with ambiguity, but as you become more proficient in using the language, you'll get used to it.
Allow me suggest to you that when drafting legislation, it is extremely important to minimize or eliminate such ambiguity. Failure to do so results in sloppy, ill-conceived laws that are as difficult to obey as they are to equitably enforce.
But of course, if that's your goal, then ambiguity is your friend.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)The essence of communication eschews ambiguity. Since I'm paid as a systems engineer to write requirements on projects for DoD contractors and companies who seek product certification by agencies such as the FAA and FDA I am proficient in my usage.
Thanks for your sympathies on my discomfort, welcome back to DU and welcome to the discussion.
The term assault rifle has a particular denotative meaning. That meaning is the one that would be pertinent in discussions concerning legislation, government actions and judicial interpretations. Prior to the invention of the term assault weapon federal laws and ATF terminology referenced all full-auto firearms as machine guns.
I don't have a need to control the artful expressions of imaginative idealistic journalists. Do you have a need to assure that ambiguity and equivocation remain in the discussion?
Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)And you should control the definition of terms?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Me? Not at all. I just prefer to point out that, when someone uses a term with an already accepted meaning in a way that's contrary to reality, such a person is engaging in a bit of indirect (and maybe uninformed) subterfuge.
There will always be difficulties in relating ideas because in our varied experiences, words have connotative meanings that aren't always shared by writer and reader. Add to that we all make mistakes. I for one rely heavily on spell-check and was just informed by my spellchecker that I didn't spell 'spell-check' correctly.
More to the point, I don't want to control the definition of terms. Nor am I a spelling Nazi. The MSM puts out information that includes a certain amount of sensationalized material. Sensationalism and exaggeration aren't the essence of truth. I find there's enough misunderstandings that arise out of mistakes without promoting said mistakes as reliable information.
So "Do you have a need to assure that ambiguity and equivocation remain in the discussion?"
sir pball
(4,741 posts)Colt made this little thing called the Automatic Pistol, Model 1911.
I prefer "select-fire" and "semi-automatic" myself, FWIW.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)sir pball
(4,741 posts)I have yet to meet a handgun I'd rather use and that includes the absolute "cutting edge"...though I suppose it isn't cutting edge if an ancient, all-metal, SAO slab does almost everything better