Gun discharges inside Harper Woods High School; more guns, knives found after locker sweep

[jpak]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2012/02/gun_discharges_inside_harper_w.html

Six students at Harper Woods High School were arrested on Thursday after a gun accidentally discharged in a school's hallway and more weapons were found in a locker sweep.

A 16-year-old student brought a 9-mm handgun to school and was showing it to other students when the gun went off. No one was injured.

After a lockdown of the campus, which also houses a middle school, authorities searched lockers and found two more guns, three knives, narcotics and alcohol, according to WWJ.

Five boys and one girl, all 15 or 16, were taken into custody. Superintendent Todd Biederwolf sent a letter to parents after the incident.

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[ileus]

1. More firearms victimized by stupidassed kids.

My kids already have too much respect for the 2A to allow something like this to happen. Why can't all parents teach their kids proper respect for the Second?

[Hoyt]

24. Just another kid following in footsteps of "gun culture" role models.

[era veteran]

34. You should take a break

So many INANE posts.
Go ahead and alert, but your constant crappy postings have rendered you immaterial.
Everybody gets your drift.

[Hoyt]

42. Have never alerted. You post stuff promoting guns, I and others will post opposition.

Is there not an "ignore" feature? Use it rather than whining. Better yet, reconsider your support of more guns and public toting.

[era veteran]

61. I have a 2nd Amendment right to own weapons.

I have been 'retained' by the US government as a trained user for several years.
Perhaps citizens with a more rural and military background are used to seeing weapons as the tools they are.
Do you want to repeal the 2nd Amendment? Regardless, Excuse me for being snippy, I do respect your 1st Amendment right to think I am full of shit but I think your negative response to every post that essentially repeats the same thing over and over is wearisome.

'A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check
Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to
and including my life'. That is Honor, and there are way too many people
in This country who no longer understand it.' ... We are sworn to uphold the Constitution we live under.

There are beaucoup problems with guns in this country. The courts incarcerate the wrong people, felons in my city that have been caught CCDW are walking the streets. Not even sent back to prison. Need room to lock up the non violent types. Weapons are not going away and I think you would have to be Pollyanna to believe they ever will. Make criminal acts committed with a gun have longer prison terms that actually are served.
I know that there are many liberals in our Big Tent Democratic Party that feel similarly. Good day. R
Againhttp://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

[Hoyt]

62. 2nd Amendment does not preclude significant restrictions.

NEED restrictions on carrying, number and types of guns sold, and others.

As recent 5/4 decision indicates, 2nd A is hardly settled.

[gejohnston]

63. there are restrictions on carrying

and types sold
In the one day of a life of a dead governor, he had a revolver and everyone else had pick handles.

There is no precedent to support an overturn, and no one is going to sue to push it.

[era veteran]

64. I can never understand

This part is settled; "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
How hard is it to understand that?
Well I am a 'people' and I fucking understand it. You will post the same inane shit to a settled non issue.
Why the fuck I even bothered with you?
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

[Hoyt]

65. Because of that "a well regulated militia" part and court decisions that restrictions are OK.

Further, the drafters never envisioned people carrying the types of weapons we have today on city streets. Of course the majority of drafters were slave owners, had no problem with killing Native American for their land, and all but ignored women. But, that is another story.

Today, courts have ruled restrictions are not precluded by the 2nd Amendment.

As to your "why the fuck I even bothered with you?" -- that's a good question.

[gejohnston]

66. I'm sure they envisioned it.

It ruled reasonable restrictions. Current laws are generally reasonable, not counting DC, NYC, or California.

[TheWraith]

73. They never envisioned computers either, so surrender yours immediately.

It's nothing but a high capacity child-porn distribution system!

That's pretty much how ridiculous it sounds when you tell gun owners that they're all would-be mass murderers because they use modern weapons and not flint-lock pistols.

Also, "a well regulated militia" does not mean what you seem to think it means. It does not mean that the right to own weapons is confined to militia service; and even if it did, that would still mean every male age 17 to 45.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

45. Guns Cannot Be 'Victimized'

....only people.

But I applaud your efforts to teach your kids proper respect for guns.

Having said that, letting kids handle guns should not be a social experiment for good parenting.

[gejohnston]

46. social experiment?

You need to get out of the burbs or city more often. Maybe actually hang out with the farmers that marched on Madison, small town folks passing out dump Walker petitions. If they hunt and own guns, same with the kids.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

47. Fair Enough

....just as soon as you take to the streets in the city so you can see what type of hunting goes on there.

[gejohnston]

48. been on city streets

and in more places than the US.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

49. Good for You

...and I've gotten out of the city more than enough as well.

[gejohnston]

71. hiking in the woods is different

than actually getting to know the people who live there

[fightthegoodfightnow]

72. Oh Good Grief

Really? Seriously? You don't know me.

Good grief. Live with who you stereotype me to be. It's just not reality.

Ready to talk about guns?

[oneshooter]

67. Well I would guess that, according to you, I am a bad parent.

Our oldest two sons both grew up handeling firearms, shooting competition and hunting. Niether grew up to become depraved killers. One (24) is currently in Afganistan as a US Army Field Medic/EMT. The eldest (26) is running his own startup insurence company. My youngest (13) has been shooting competition, 50yd rimfire benchrest, for the last two years and was gifted a AR-15 built by myself for him. He plans to shoot condenced (200yd) course when he gets more accustemed to the rifle.
I am extreamly proud of my sons and my family.

There is nothing wrong with introducing children to firearms, as long as it is done properly and with follow up training.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

68. Good Parenting

Yes, you are a rightfully a proud parent.

I suspect you taught your children respect for gun safety and they listened to you. You are indeed lucky and you are wrong to assume I think you are a bad parent.

I merely point out that when a 13 year old doesn't listen and follow instructions with guns, it can end badly .....and not quite with the same ramifications as not making your bed.

Do you think all parents do a good job with gun safety instructions and every child listens and does exactly as instructed everytime?

[oneshooter]

70. No. Good parenting starts early. A bond of trust must be formed before

teaching. I started with a Red Ryder bb gun, they learned basic safety with it at age 6, shooting cans in the back yard under parental supervision, either myself or when I was out of town for a few months, my Loving Wife. They had to prove they were capable of safe handleing before they fired anything else. I allowed them to handle any firearm in my collection with supervision. Breaking the safe rules meant that they lost firearm privileges for a set time.
A lot depends on the adult attitudes about firearms.

I work a lot with the Scouts, both Boy and Cub. One of the things I do with the Cub Scouts is a firearm safety program. I bring 8-10 arms from my collection and talk about safety with them, feilding questions, some are very suprising, and working with both the Scouts and the Parents ( I request that they come to this meeting with their Scouts) Close to the end of the meeting I ask the parents a question, "Do you have a firearm at home, just raise your hand please." Most do, and then I ask them" Do you have it hidden?" most all answer yes. I then ask them" How often did your parents hide something from you that you didn't find" The looks of surprise on the faces! Then I tell them "Think about it". With the parents permission I then start passing out the weapons from the table to the Scouts to handle. Most of the comments are how heavy they were. I ask the parents to continue the boys education, to take the "mystery" out of firearms. T help the boys learn, and to learn themselves. I pass out a paper with the 4 rules that we covered.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Glassunion]

2. Oh my...

Do you mean to tell me that there is crime happening in a High School located in a city that has 3 times the amount of violent crime than the rest of the nation?

[slackmaster]

3. Well, I sincerely hope that Mr. Biederwolf's actions will prevent any additional incidents

Otherwise, he might have to write another letter.

[oneshooter]

4. And what law do you propose to prevent this from happining again?

[TheWraith]

5. Clearly we need to ban teenagers from taking guns to school.

Oh wait--it's already illegal for teenagers to possess a handgun, illegal for them to carry a handgun, and illegal to take a firearm to school. Geez, it's almost like those laws don't magically prevent people from doing things! If only we had a law against anyone having guns, THEN it would stop.

[rl6214]

6. I think we should ban teenagers from being stupid.

[oneshooter]

7. I believe that would be truly impossable to enforce.

[ileus]

8. The only answer is to ban firearms...

[oneshooter]

26. Been over 24hrs and no answer, typical of the anti gun folks.

[oneshooter]

52. WOW!! Another 24hrs, and no answer. Perhaps the fear is too strong here.

[ellisonz]

9. Whoever negligently allowed access to this gun...

...should be prosecuted to the fullest extent, likewise for the others in possession. What would this thread be like if someone had been injured...

"I'm just really tired, I'm just tired" - Velina Dockery - "Concerned Parent." Amen.

[Glassunion]

10. I agree.

Problem is they won't.

We have oodles of gun laws on the books, however they are not prosecuted to the level I would like. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds that the guns did not come from a relatives home. This is a tough neighborhood with high crime. My best guess is that these kids most likely are affiliated with a gang and that is how they obtained the firearms.

[ellisonz]

11. And...

...how do you think the gang obtained the firearms?

[GreenStormCloud]

12. Theft. N/T

[ileus]

13. no no...gun show loophole...LOL

[Glassunion]

14. Illegally.

[krispos42]

15. Mail order.

Went on internet, bought a gun, had it shipped to the house in discrete packaging. I saw it on MSNBC...

[cleanhippie]

16. Looks like the myriad of plausible answers to your question silenced you.

Did you have a point with that question or have you now been educated on the most realistic possibilities and realize that you were going nowhere?

[ellisonz]

17. Sometimes it's just better to let it go...

I would note though that not a single one acknowledge that such weapons could have been obtained through legal means i.e. a straw buyer or jokingly as krispos42 acknowledges private sale.

[cleanhippie]

18. You note that wrongly.

No one has ever suggested that it could not have come from a legal source. That certainly IS possible.


But there is a huge gulf between what is possible, and what is PROBABLE.


And it is most PROBABLE that it was obtained illegally.


Now that that is settled, was there another point you wanted to make?

[ellisonz]

22. I've made my point. n/t

[cleanhippie]

25. If not having one was your point, then I agree.

[gejohnston]

19. using a straw buyer is a federal crime

being a straw buyer can get you up to ten years. Anyone selling to a minor in a private seller is both a federal and state felony. In other words, there is no legal means to acknowledge.

[PavePusher]

20. Straw purchases are NOT LEGAL.

Can you hear us now?

[ellisonz]

21. That is correct.

But unlike theft - the initial act of obtaining in and of itself is not illegal (like theft), rather it is the intent that is illegal.

[PavePusher]

23. The act itself is illegal, due to the intent. Check the law and stop spouting inanities. n/t

[ellisonz]

27. I'm talking about more than just law...

...I'm talking about the ontological implications for policy in relation to the criminal act. What you see as spouting inanities are actually the basic questions that one would pose in analytic philosophical account of an investigation into this event.

[cleanhippie]

40. "What you see as spouting inanities are actually the basic questions that one would pose..."

What you see as spouting inanities are actually the basic questions that one would pose in analytic philosophical account of an investigation into this event.

[Fortran]

29. I sure am glad I lived long enough to see thoughts criminalized in this nation.

I was afraid we might not make it in time.

[PavePusher]

38. Huh? Thoughts? This is about actual actions done with criminal intent.

Where did thought-crime slip into this?

[Fortran]

57. It slipped in with post #21 which I was commenting on. I'm 100% on your side here.

...

[PavePusher]

58. Heh, O.K., my bad, I lost track of who said what for a minute. Thanks! n/t

[Fortran]

59. Nyet sweat, I knew that was the deal.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Straw buying is ILLEGAL.

Try again.

Ineligible recipient in a private sale: illegal.

Try again.

[ellisonz]

31. = happens probably every day in America. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

32. And?

[ellisonz]

33. Maybe we need to look at improving our laws...

Since the pro-gun crowd her is so expert, I'm sure they can come up with some excellent proposals to reduce theft, make straw buying more difficult, and ensure the integrity of private sales. Have at it...I'm all ears. Or are we of the opinion that nothing can be done?

[AtheistCrusader]

37. We've asked for open access to NICS for private transfers.

Everyone else keeps saying 'no'.

We tried registration, it was abused. Americans aren't going to go for it again, after California. The trust is gone. It's not coming back, no matter how much I, personally, would like to see that enacted, as it would torpedo most straw purchases, eventually.

[PavePusher]

39. If you want "something" done so badly, the onus to come up with acceptable ideas is on... YOU.

Stop trying to dodge the responsibility.

[ellisonz]

43. I think you say that...

...because you don't actually want to answer that question as I have at least half a dozen times in recent months. C'mon Pave, what are you afraid of? Admitting there is a problem and that something can be done about it really is the first step.

[PavePusher]

50. I'm not really "afraid" of the issue. I don't think, in the greater picture....

that it IS much of an issue. And that it could mostly be solved, as previously stated ad nauseum, almost entirely as a byproduct of fixing health care, the criminal justice system (enforce current laws fairly and consistantly) and end Prohibition II (the War on <Some> Drugs).

[cleanhippie]

41. If you are all ears, then you need to clean them out.

Because we HAVE made suggestions to deal with this. Open up the NICS for starters, but no, that just won't do.

If you are really "all ears" then you need to go back trough the threads, the very same ones where you missed it the first time, and see just what has been proposed.

[ellisonz]

44. I've seen that proposal. Is that it?

[cleanhippie]

51. Is that it?

It's like talking to a child.

Is that it? It's a start. To open it up and allow private sellers to verify the buyers would eliminate nearly all straw purchases.

Is that it? That's enough. For now.

Or do you have some more petulance to get out?

[ellisonz]

53. When you have to say...

"it's like talking to a child" - you lose the debate.

[oneshooter]

54. And that reply is proof that he is right.

[ellisonz]

55. And your reply is proof that...

...you have nothing to contribute to this conversation other than invective.

[oneshooter]

56. I have much to contribute, I has just agreeing with a poster.

[Fortran]

60. You forgot "neener neener"

[cleanhippie]

69. At least he is contributing. You add nothing at all.

In fact, you are taking away from the conversation.


Petulant child seems like it was the perfect descriptor.

[Atypical Liberal]

36. Private or not, it would not be legal to sell a handgun to a high school student.

[Atypical Liberal]

35. And...

Why should I pay the price for how they obtained them?

[Fortran]

28. Who's making all these guns that just "go off" by themselves? The Pentagon should be hiring them

to develop even more magical weapons.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

74. You see...

...guns don't only kill but they lead to knives, drugs and alcohol.