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Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:45 PM

If gun registration became mandatory what should the penalty be for

shooting a rapist with an unregistered gun?

33 replies, 8148 views

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply If gun registration became mandatory what should the penalty be for (Original post)
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 OP
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2014 #1
NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #2
DonP Dec 2014 #3
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #16
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #18
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #21
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #22
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #23
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #25
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #27
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #28
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #32
ileus Dec 2014 #4
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #24
SkatmanRoth Dec 2014 #5
ileus Dec 2014 #6
DonP Dec 2014 #7
ileus Dec 2014 #8
DonP Dec 2014 #10
ileus Dec 2014 #19
DonP Dec 2014 #20
S_B_Jackson Dec 2014 #9
ManiacJoe Dec 2014 #12
SkatmanRoth Dec 2014 #15
ManiacJoe Dec 2014 #11
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #13
ManiacJoe Dec 2014 #14
pablo_marmol Dec 2014 #17
upaloopa Dec 2014 #26
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #29
upaloopa Dec 2014 #30
ileus Dec 2014 #31
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #33

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:32 PM

1. A $100 fine...

...for each of the legislators that passed the law, payable to each resident of the related jurisdiction.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:54 PM

2. A sliding scale should be employed here:

 

The first offense is a $2.56 fine and surrender of the weapon until that fine is paid.

Paid IN FULL!

Second offenses, and all subsequent acts, shall incur fines of 50% the prior fine: $1.28; 64; 32, etc...

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 05:40 PM

3. I'm still waiting to find out what they think registration will achieve?

 

They already admit that criminals won't register any guns, only the law abiding will.

But then the conversation, such as it is, drizzles away into mumbling.

If the only registered guns belong to the law abiding, what use is their registration? After all, nobody wants to confiscate your guns .... yet, right? The cops can already trace serial numbers through the manufacturer, wholesalers and 4473 forms to the original buyer and in more states like Illinois, through every purchase, gun show or car trunk

My personal opinion; gun control fans all believe in "Trickle Down Gun Control". E.G. Keep taking and restricting more types of guns from the law abiding and sooner or later (much, much later), maybe, probably, sorta, criminals won't have any guns...they hope.

The people that can't defend themselves and are injured or killed are just collateral damage for their warm fuzzy feelings of moral superiority.

Oh, and they can charge a fee for registration of course. Chicago was charging $100 per gun registered. No impediment to a civil right there

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Response to DonP (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 02:40 AM

16. Registration will allow us to find/end intentional straw purchasers. People who move

a couple hundred guns a year. The people the FBI usually sit on their thumbs, 'watching' move dozens to hundreds of guns while 'building a case' through more difficult paperwork-following brute force detective work.

It's pretty much useless for every other possible issue.

But that initial jump, where a lawfully purchased gun transitions to grey or black markets, people who try to make a living out of it would be caught.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 09:24 AM

18. Registration doesn't allow for the tracking of guns (Hint: traffickers won't be registering guns).

Its only purpose is to provide a basis for penalizing those who possess unregistered guns.

So what should the penalty be for a woman who shoots a rapist with an unregistered gun?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:31 AM

21. Registration happens at point of sale for new guns.

Under such a hypothetical system, it would anyway. So it would capture one of the ways guns transition from legal to illegal markets.

Doesn't do anything for guns in circulation really. Doesn't help with guns that make the transition by way of theft, or illicit importation. But it does address one very real means of moving those guns.

I advocate cpl, training, and for people to arm themselves. I carry. If I was carrying without my license and something bad happened that necessitated its use, I accept that I might pay some penalty (already defined in law) for doing so. Probably get no-billed by a grand jury though.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 02:18 PM

22. What should be the penalty for shooting a rapist with an unregistered gun? nt

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 02:22 PM

23. I already answered your question.

I carry. I have a CPL. If I shot a rapist holding someone or myself in imminent jeopardy of harm, and my CPL was not valid, I would expect to answer for that fact in the following investigation.

I would expect I may have to explain myself to a jury, even.

(And I expect any reasonable jury would tell me to go forth and have a nice day.)

We don't have registration today, but as with the CPL example, I can illustrate what happens, today, if someone is not in compliance with some paperwork associated with the carry of a firearm.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:11 PM

25. No, you explained the process of being criminally charged and tried. The penalty is another matter.

Just because a thing is illegal doesn't mean the attending penalty is fair; it may be too lenient or too severe.

If you want gun registration then a penalty must attend any violation of the law. You claim you want registration to curtail illegal trafficking. Ergo the penalty must be sufficient to put traffickers out of business. Yet, it would be naive / misleading to act as if such laws won't catch people who are not traffickers; people who are simply sport shooters or defending themselves.

I would have no trouble sentencing a trafficker to 10 years -- for trafficking; but for the scenario in the OP I wouldn't trouble the woman beyond the initial police report.

How about you?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:18 PM

27. No, I described what happens when you are found to be out of compliance with XYZ law, during the

course of investigation into a purely justifiable use of force in self defense.

Having a valid CPL on you when carrying is not materially different from proposing you have a registered firearm, in this context. Either law or administrative code has a penalty attached. If you are found to be out of compliance, you pay the penalty, if a jury convicts/magistrate finds you guilty/whatever.

Using a weapon in fully, purely, wholly justifiable self defense, is not blanket immunity for any other infraction you might be committing at that time.

A prosecutor MIGHT pursue charges against your hypothetical rape victim that used an unregistered weapon in self defense, for the crime of having an unregistered pistol.

Not materially different than what would happen to me, if I used my firearm in self-defense without the appropriate licensure.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:24 PM

28. Why are you so reluctant to answer? You're skirting the issue with all this jabber.

"Well, the law is blah blah blah."

What should the penalty be for killing a rapist with an unregistered gun? Ten years? Twenty five to life?

Maybe she would be better off just learning to lying back and trying to relax.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 05:10 PM

32. I'm not skirting it. I'm answering it directly.

I used a real world, actual example. The rules are the same.

If you act in self defense, you're good to go. If you also happen to commit a crime, and it is discovered during the investigation into the act of self defense, you may have to pay for that crime.

If I resist a rape attempt with an unregistered firearm, the same thing would happen as if I resisted a rape attempt with a firearm without a valid CPL, and I had it concealed on my person.

This is not a difficult question. This sort of thing already happens for a different license/registration issue.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 06:22 PM

4. you gunners, always wanting to disobey the law and be unkind to the needy.

can't you just pinch a nut off or something...why resort to violence with a hateful old firearm.



Stop threatening to be rude to rapist and society.


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Response to ileus (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 02:23 PM

24. You're right. I forgot. I'll start carrying a can of beans or a bicycle tyre.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 07:00 PM

5. It should be based on the type of gun used

If the caliber of the gun starts with a '4' - no penalty

If the caliber of the gun does not start with a '4', then the penalty should be one hour on the target range.

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Response to SkatmanRoth (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 10:27 PM

6. Good point if you don't care enough to send the very best...

Last edited Sat Dec 6, 2014, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I must admit my 9's, 38, and 380 out number my 45's by 4

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Response to ileus (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:29 AM

7. You know what they say...

 

A 9 or 40 may or may not expand, depending on the load and your barrel length, but a .45 never shrinks.

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Response to DonP (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 05:39 PM

8. You convinced me...I'm going to stop pocket carrying my LCP

and instead pocket carry the p220.

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Response to ileus (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 09:18 PM

10. I alternate between a Kahr CM9, the version of the PM9 for cheap SoB's ...

 

... and a Para Ordnance Expert Carry 1911. Alloy full size frame and 3 inch barrel. Only weighs about 8 ounces more than the Kahr 9.

With a Crossbreed IWB holster it spreads the weight out for all day carry

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Response to DonP (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:30 AM

19. funny you should mention the CM9

We were just talking about it here in the shop.

My super carries the Solo and our preacher co-worker is wanting something in 9 to fit between his TCP and XDS in 45 that he can pocket carry.

But being the cheap turd he is (paying off his DWs NP degree) he doesn't want to spring for a Solo or PM series. So I recommended the CM9....

When I picked up my shield the same dealer had them for 345 last year. I almost sprung for the CW45 at the time.

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Response to ileus (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:56 AM

20. Its a good carry option

 

Same smooth trigger as the PM9. Most of the differences are cosmetic. You do need to put at least a box of fmj 9 through it to smooth the feed ramp and loosen it up a little. Its not unusual to have a few ftfs in that first box. But the trigger just keeps getting smoother the more you shoot it. FWIW the 6 and 7 round mags are great, the Kahr 8 round mag has all kinds of feed problems. I added a Crimson Trace unit to it. Old eyes and a philisophical issue. If I ever have to use it, its one last chance for a bad guy to reconsider when they see that little red dot on their chest.

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Response to SkatmanRoth (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 06:51 PM

9. What if using a caliber larger than that...

say .50AE or .50GCI?

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Response to S_B_Jackson (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 09:30 PM

12. That would be bad logistics.

The cost of the ammo and the clean up would be more than the cost of the "unlawful" possession charge.

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Response to S_B_Jackson (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 06:50 AM

15. Over penetration

Know your target and what is beyond

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 09:26 PM

11. Assuming things stay the way they are now,

The "shooting" part would remain separate from the "unlawful possession" part. Thus you would end up with no charges on the "self defense" or "defense of a third party" part, and guilty on the "unlawful possession" part, assuming the DA could get a jury to convict on the "unlawful possession" part.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 12:16 AM

13. What should the penalty be?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 12:21 AM

14. One dollar,

with no additional penalties until the gun is registered at the owners earliest convenience.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:28 AM

17. Two 'Our Fathers' and six 'Hail Marys'?


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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:15 PM

26. What should the penalty be if your kid got your gun

and injured himself?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:26 PM

29. There are already penalties for that with civil liabilities. Would you care to answer the OP now?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:33 PM

30. I am asking you to trade the rapist getting

shot with your kid getting short with the unregistered gun.
See it makes no difference who gets shot the penalty for an unregistered gun would be the same.
Somehow shooting a rapist gives your gun fetish more legitimacy and makes registration laughable.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 05:03 PM

31. I recommend not letting your kid play with firearms.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:53 PM

33. Seeing as gun registration does nothing to prevent any shooting, accidental or otherwise,

what is the value in prosecuting a victim of sexual assault?

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