Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:04 AM Apr 2015

Would you want the Dem candidate for president to be pro-gun control if it costs them the election?

A) Yes. It's that important to stand on principle even if the election is lost

B) Obfuscate, then come out for gun control once elected

C) No. I suppose we have more public outreach to do before risking the presidency

D) Gun control is totally a winning issue!

E) I'm pro-RKBA so this is an easy choice for me

F) Other

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Would you want the Dem candidate for president to be pro-gun control if it costs them the election? (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 OP
Why would it cost them the election? Scuba Apr 2015 #1
Yes, but when was the last time a Republican controlled Congress card about what the people wanted? leftofcool Apr 2015 #3
That is a poll. Reality, on the other hand, shows gun laws loosening a pols being recalled despite Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #4
If gun control started and ended with UBCs, you might have a point hack89 Apr 2015 #8
I think I will go with C. leftofcool Apr 2015 #2
False dichotomy mwrguy Apr 2015 #5
That would be choice D Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #6
Ann Richards views on CCW probably cost her the 1994 Governor's election Lurks Often Apr 2015 #7
Would you want a Democratic candidate to be anti-gun if it would win them the election? safeinOhio Apr 2015 #9
It's a good question but I would say "no" Shamash Apr 2015 #10
or, would you want a Democratic candidate that safeinOhio Apr 2015 #13
I don't see firearm rights as being more or less important than other rights Shamash Apr 2015 #14
Sounds reasonable if someone is trying to kill me. safeinOhio Apr 2015 #15
No disagreement there. Zimmerman should be in jail. n/t Shamash Apr 2015 #16
Only because of fear for his life laws safeinOhio Apr 2015 #17
? gejohnston Apr 2015 #18
B or D I suppose. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #11
8 years ago it was gay marriage that folks wanted Democrats to run away from. stone space Apr 2015 #12
"Democrats should just do what is right." NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #22
Guns do not have rights. Guns and corporations are not people (nt) stone space Apr 2015 #23
Still displaying your lack of knowledge on the subject? Lurks Often Apr 2015 #24
I have made no comments about any political or governmental document. stone space Apr 2015 #25
So you acknowledge owning a firearm is a civil right Lurks Often Apr 2015 #26
This is a personal attack based on pure anti-intellectualism, plain and simple. stone space Apr 2015 #27
Yet again you fail to answer a simple question Lurks Often Apr 2015 #28
No, I most certainly do not. stone space Apr 2015 #29
Expecting professors with Master's and Doctorates to understand Lurks Often Apr 2015 #30
You can expect anything you want, but claiming that... stone space Apr 2015 #31
Yes, I have LOTS and LOTS of posts bashing professors at a public university Lurks Often Apr 2015 #32
Then why did you bring up my employment and use it to bash me? stone space Apr 2015 #33
You seem a little obsessive about taking everything personally Lurks Often Apr 2015 #34
I understand that it is not about me. stone space Apr 2015 #35
Again with making things up and jumping to wild conclusions Lurks Often Apr 2015 #36
You admitted yourself that it wasn't about me. (nt) stone space Apr 2015 #37
I don't want any of our candidates pro-control...they should all be 2A progressives. ileus Apr 2015 #19
^^ This. NT pablo_marmol Apr 2015 #20
E NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #21

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
3. Yes, but when was the last time a Republican controlled Congress card about what the people wanted?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:12 AM
Apr 2015

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
4. That is a poll. Reality, on the other hand, shows gun laws loosening a pols being recalled despite
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:14 AM
Apr 2015

Bloomberg's bank rolling.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
8. If gun control started and ended with UBCs, you might have a point
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:01 AM
Apr 2015

unfortunately, as we saw post Sandy Hook, Congressional Democrats have no self discipline and will drag out every gun control proposal imaginable if given the opportunity so they can impress their anti-gun constituents. Those are not the measures that will be popular in a national race where you have to win many pro-gun states.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
7. Ann Richards views on CCW probably cost her the 1994 Governor's election
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:52 AM
Apr 2015

which started George W Bush on the path to the White House.

One also has to wonder if Gore's gun control views cost him his home state of Tennessee in the 2000 election. For that matter, did Gore's views on gun control cost him any of the following states: NH, MO, OH or NV (all of which were decided with less then a 5% margin)?

If Gore had won in just ONE of those states, he would have won the Presidency regardless of what happened in FL.

 

Shamash

(597 posts)
10. It's a good question but I would say "no"
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:45 AM
Apr 2015

For the simple reason that they were winning because they took a position against upholding people's rights. It is like asking:

"would you want a Democratic candidate to declare they would overturn Roe v. Wade if it would win them the election?"
"would you want a Democratic candidate to declare they make scary Muslims persona non grata if it would win them the election?"
"would you want a Democratic candidate to declare they would criminalize whistle-blowing if it would win them the election?"
"would you want a Democratic candidate to declare they would implement a national "stop & frisk" program if it would win them the election?"

I'd answer "no" to all of those as well.

safeinOhio

(33,158 posts)
13. or, would you want a Democratic candidate that
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:55 AM
Apr 2015

wanted to remove licenses for CCWs and make it legal for everyone and anyone to carry
wanted to remove background checks for FFLs
wanted to remove restrictions of fully automatic firearms
wanted to remove restrictions on those that are now prohibited from owning or processing firearms.
wanted to expand "right to stand your ground" laws

The ones you answer no to having little or nothing to do with firearms.

 

Shamash

(597 posts)
14. I don't see firearm rights as being more or less important than other rights
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:31 AM
Apr 2015

Nor do I think that just because something is a "right" does not mean it cannot have limits and/or regulations. I presume we both agree that Roe v. Wade establishes certain reproductive rights, but that probably does not mean that you think an abortion clinic should be completely without regulations. You probably feel the same way about guns being completely without regulations. As do I.

But there is a difference between "creeping prohibition" and "regulation", and if the rhetoric on gun control here at DU is any indication, when people say "control" they mean the former and not the latter.

But to refer to a specific question above, Vermont has no licenses for CCWs and it is legal for everyone and anyone to carry (adult non-felons, anyway). And they have the lowest firearm murder rate in the country, though that is a topic for a different discussion. So, how do you feel about Bernie Sanders(I-VT) as a candidate given that he has represented Vermont since forever, and voted to not allow gun manufacturers to be subject to civil suits for the misuse of their firearms. To be specific, he voted against it twice. He would be a perfect example of a candidate who has never spoken out against license-free CCW in his home state, which is if not support for the policy, at least non-opposition to it. Do you have a problem with him?

If you think that firearm rights or any specific right exists in some separate continuum from other rights, I contend that you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution. And if a candidate holds that view, I think they are unsuited for public office, regardless of their political affiliation.

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." Said by this guy:

(link)

safeinOhio

(33,158 posts)
15. Sounds reasonable if someone is trying to kill me.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:39 AM
Apr 2015

However, if he is holding a bag of skittles, not so much.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
11. B or D I suppose.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:52 AM
Apr 2015

While it's certainly an important issue, it's not top tier. So as long as they aren't actually helping make it EASIER for idiots to get ahold of guns and shoot themselves, children, and people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, I don't mind a President who does nothing on making things better on gun control as long as they DO make things better on climate change and wealth inequality.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
12. 8 years ago it was gay marriage that folks wanted Democrats to run away from.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:52 AM
Apr 2015

They said it would cost elections, but this time around candidates are including gay couples in their videos.

I don't worry about the fear mongers.

Democrats should just do what is right.


NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
22. "Democrats should just do what is right."
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 09:08 PM
Apr 2015

Absolutely. Democrats should defend Constitutional rights, including the 2nd Amendment.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
24. Still displaying your lack of knowledge on the subject?
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 09:17 AM
Apr 2015

For an alleged college professor I'm surprised you don't seem to understand that the United States Constitution, along with many state constitutions, state that ownership of firearms is indeed a civil right.

SCOTUS, the Constitution, the President, the vast majority of states in this country and the people who WROTE the Constitution view that ownership of firearms is a civil right.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
25. I have made no comments about any political or governmental document.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:11 AM
Apr 2015
For an alleged college professor I'm surprised you don't seem to understand that the United States Constitution, along with many state constitutions, state that ownership of firearms is indeed a civil right.


Your personal attack here seems to be based entire upon a lie.



 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
26. So you acknowledge owning a firearm is a civil right
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:18 AM
Apr 2015

even if you don't like that it is allowed.

You claim to be a college professor.

Given that most university and college professors have at least a Master's degree, one would think that the average university and college professor would have at least a working understanding of the basics of the US Constitution even if that wasn't their field of study.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
27. This is a personal attack based on pure anti-intellectualism, plain and simple.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:24 AM
Apr 2015
You claim to be a college professor.

Given that most university and college professors have at least a Master's degree, one think that the average university and college professor would have at least a working understanding of the basics of the US Constitution even if that wasn't their field of study.




 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
28. Yet again you fail to answer a simple question
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:32 AM
Apr 2015

Do you acknowledge that owning a firearm is a civil right?

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
29. No, I most certainly do not.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:38 AM
Apr 2015
Do you acknowledge that owning a firearm is a civil right?


But this has absolutely nothing to do with your personal attack above, which is based upon nothing more than your own anti-intellectualism.

I have made no mention of any political or governmental documents that you may use as scriptural references.



 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
30. Expecting professors with Master's and Doctorates to understand
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 12:08 PM
Apr 2015

the basics about the US Constitution is "anti-intellectualism" and a personal attack? Ok then

And the US Constitution, state constitutions and US law are not "scriptural references".

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
31. You can expect anything you want, but claiming that...
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 11:14 AM
Apr 2015

...I said something about some political document when I didn't is simply lying, and the lies are apparently motivated by your anti-intellectualism, given how often you bash folks here simply for teaching at a public university.

We're apparently just a bunch of know-nothing egghead public employees to you.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
32. Yes, I have LOTS and LOTS of posts bashing professors at a public university
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 11:23 AM
Apr 2015

In fact, I'm sure you can provide numerous links to all of those posts

I see you are back to making things up again

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
33. Then why did you bring up my employment and use it to bash me?
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 11:29 AM
Apr 2015

Your anti-intellectualism is on full display here in this thread.

There's nothing wrong with being a mathematician, but you act as if we are scum to be ridiculed for our profession.

And you make up lies in order to do it.

That's anti-intellectualism to an obsessive degree.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
35. I understand that it is not about me.
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 11:41 AM
Apr 2015
You seem a little obsessive about taking everything personally not everything is about you.


It is about your own anti-intellectual obsession.

I just happen to have a profession that you despise, and you want me to know how much you despise my profession, so you use it to bash me, that's all.

It's not about me at all. I'm just some random mathematician on the street.

It's all about you and your anti-intellectual obsession.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
21. E
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 09:06 PM
Apr 2015

I'm all for the right to own firearms. If I had my way, the Democratic platform / candidate wouldn't even mention it except to agree that it's a Constitutional right.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Would you want the Dem ca...