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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
Sun May 3, 2015, 12:52 PM May 2015

Murder or self-defense

Most everyone agrees that self-defense is a good idea. (Some pro-control folks don't want anyone using a gun for that purpose.)
Are laws about self-defense too loose?

Murder
State laws categorizing murders into first, second and possibly third degrees generally require that first degree murders include three basic elements: willfulness, deliberation and premeditation. Some states also require "malice aforethought" as an element, though sates differ as to how malice must be shown and whether this is a separate requirement from willful, deliberate and premeditated taking of human life. Most states also enumerate certain kinds of killings as first degree murders without need to prove intent, deliberation and premeditation.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

Justified Homicide
Not all homicides are crimes, let alone first degree murders. The most common legal justification for a killing is self-defense or the defense of others.

Self-Defense
To succeed, a defendant arguing self defense must show that the killing resulted from a reasonable use of force to resist a reasonable fear of death or bodily harm. The defendant cannot have instigated the threatening situation. The degree of force used in self-defense must be proportional to the threat perceived, and the threat perceived must be something that would place a reasonable person in fear of death or great bodily harm. Mere words or insults do not suffice.

The defendant's reaction to the threat cannot take place after the threat of death or bodily harm has passed. Many states require that the defendant attempt to retreat or avoid danger if possible before resorting to the use of deadly force.

For example, if someone incapacitates a mugger with pepper spray, he or she may need to attempt to flee to safety instead of taking out a pistol and shooting the mugger. States differ in the degree to which they require an attempt to retreat if the threat they face occurs in the defender's home.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-defenses.html

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Murder or self-defense (Original Post) discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 OP
A slight fix. beevul May 2015 #1
fixed ;) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #2
Good post. virginia mountainman May 2015 #3
Thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #9
any use of a gun is murder...every time gun is typed we murder #gunsense ileus May 2015 #4
You jest, but that's pretty close to how some people think. NaturalHigh May 2015 #6
I believe the term was pre-criminal n/t sarisataka May 2015 #7
Well, it is commonly believed that guns have killed everyone since Jesus. NaturalHigh May 2015 #8
I would HOPE that everyone agrees that murder is bad... NaturalHigh May 2015 #5
YEE-HAW discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #10
LOL...I'm not good at posting gifs but I would love to see that one! NaturalHigh May 2015 #11
This cat is full auto discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #19
pew-pew gift? You mean they bottle that stuff? Eleanors38 May 2015 #17
No discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #18
No comment AuntPatsy May 2015 #12
Is your 'no comment' comment indicative of opposition to... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #13
It omits so I guess I would lean more towards both.. AuntPatsy May 2015 #14
Okay, thanks for the reply discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #15
I agree AuntPatsy May 2015 #16
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
1. A slight fix.
Sun May 3, 2015, 12:59 PM
May 2015
(Some pro-control folks don't like using a gun for that purpose.)


Some pro-control folks don't want anyone using a gun for that purpose.


discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
9. Thanks
Sun May 3, 2015, 03:39 PM
May 2015

From the subject of hermeneutics I've learned that 'virtually every theological heresy begins with a misconception of the nature of God'. Analogously the topics of law, rights, crime and human nature are no different; basic misconceptions lead to absurdities and heresies.

Fundamental misunderstandings lead to crazy conclusions.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
6. You jest, but that's pretty close to how some people think.
Sun May 3, 2015, 01:47 PM
May 2015

I've actually been told that owning a gun makes you a bad person.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
5. I would HOPE that everyone agrees that murder is bad...
Sun May 3, 2015, 01:46 PM
May 2015

and that everyone is entitled to defend themselves, their families, and anyone else who is in danger. If anyone uses a firearm for murder, it's bad. If they use a firearm for defense, it's good. Substitute rock, knife, stick, fists, whatever, for firearm, and the point remains.

So many seem to think that people in favor of the right to bear arms are just a bunch of psychopaths looking for an excuse to yell "yee-haw" and shoot anything that moves. Why can't everyone understand that a firearm is a tool? It can be used for good or bad just like any other tool.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
13. Is your 'no comment' comment indicative of opposition to...
Thu May 7, 2015, 08:08 AM
May 2015

...what's expressed in the OP or that you've read the OP and don't want to discuss it or both?

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