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Sun Jun 7, 2015, 10:36 AM

If saving lives is the objective let's look at the facts

More than half of gun deaths are suicides. Anyone who uses a gun has no allusions about the extremity and permanence of their actions. There is no, "Oh maybe I'll shoot myself and someone will save me" cry for help; it's an act calculated to result in death.

Someone who is that determined to die cannot be dissuaded by what is or is not commercially available; they need help to move past what is destroying their lives.

And to ignoring what moves people to suicide in order to fixate on the chosen method of suicide is effectively saying it is okay to leave someone trapped in the abyss of suicidal depression for nothing more than a fleeting political victory.

Treat the mental health issues and guns become irrelevant.

Of the remaining roughly 45% of gun deaths we have a portion that are accidental and the remainder are deliberate criminal acts.

If banning a thing because of the misuse of that thing has never worked. It brought us Prohibition which turned irresponsible behavior into a criminal enterprise that remains entrenched to this day, decades after its repeal.

What reduces drunk driving isn't banning alcohol but rather a shift in social mores where responsible behavior is constantly reinforced. DUIs are down because people know it isn't cool to be the guy who killed a family of 4 after partying all night. It's better to find a DD and being a DD is considered a worthy cause.

As far as criminal use of guns is concerned, consider the fact that the majority of criminals using guns have prior criminal records. In others words their possession of a gun is already a criminal offence.

Many more are instances of domestic violence. Will a proposed law be.more likely to deter the offender or only end up disarming the targeted victims?

President Obama recently took steps to bolster the flagging NICS database. He is to be applauded for this. Now it is time to open NICS to private sellers as well.

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Reply If saving lives is the objective let's look at the facts (Original post)
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 OP
beevul Jun 2015 #1
DonP Jun 2015 #2
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #3
Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #4
Shamash Jun 2015 #5
pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #6
pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #7
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2015 #8

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 12:01 PM

1. As I said in an op...

 

It seems most would rather just chant "gun deaths", as if they're all the same, have all the same causes, and therefore require the same solution. Doing such a thing, is a clear obvious and direct disservice to the issue and the people it effects. Period. It is reasonable to conclude that those folks care nothing about "gun deaths", and simply attempt to use them as a crude cudgel.

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Response to beevul (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 12:40 PM

2. Don't forget conflating crimes with law abiding gun owners

 

We get a regular crop of posts here about crimes committed by people that are already banned from owning firearms. I wish they would just move those to the True Crime forum.

I have to assume the posters don't see any moral, ethical or practical difference between an armed robbery or a biker gang shooting up the territory and a bunch of target shooters planning a range trip for the weekend.

Kind of a, "they own guns and you own guns so you're all the same".

Pretty stupid and proven ineffective approach, and probably one of the reasons why the control fans can't get anything done besides applauding "back benchers" introducing one pointless new gun regulation after another that will never get out of committee to generate campaign contributions.

But then again, we also know that gun control supporters aren't big about getting out their checkbooks anyway.

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Response to DonP (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:20 PM

3. One of the single biggest impediments to gun control reform is a lack of political consensus.

If the intent of GCR is to impose collective guilt they should continue as they have in the past. However, I suspect the results will be what we have seen in the past: Panic buying, lost elections and.opportunism for the NRA.

But I hope what I have expressed in the OP provides a platform for RKBA advocates and GCR advocates to work together towards goals that actually do reduce the number of unjustified and accidental gun deaths.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:23 PM

4. I think opening NICS to private buyers is a good step all can agree to.

 

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:27 PM

5. I support it

 

I've advocated here and elsewhere that private sellers should be able to do background checks on potential buyers without having to get both parties to a gun store to make it happen.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:35 PM

6. I agree. And so do Oregon lawmakers.

I have to wonder if backing UBC's was a strategic move on the part of Oregon's Blue Steel Democrats and other gun rights activists.....pre-emptively allowing The Controllers a largely useless feel-good victory in order to provide a stronger position from which to block truly stupid laws in the future. Regardless of whether or not this is the case -- this will be it's effect.

The prison interviews of James Wright & the late Peter Rossi demonstrate that the effect of UBC's will be minor at best.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:43 PM

7. "One of the single biggest impediments to gun control reform is a lack of political consensus."

And as civil rights attorney Don Kates honestly reports, the lack of consensus can be blamed primarily on the pro-restriction side of the debate which has lied so egregiously, continuously, and unapologetically that gun owners have hunkered down. Kates points out that what we have should be a tripartite debate. But the dishonesty of The Controllers has essentially eliminated the middle ground by poisoning the well with lies about "assault weapons" etc.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:34 PM

8. Many control arguments are short on logic. K&R n/t

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