Shame could control guns better than new laws

[GGJohn]

X-posted from the other group.

A small but significant number of Americans are packing guns everywhere and all the time, including inappropriately during political gatherings. Rather than relying on stricter gun control laws, we might look to the model of public shaming provided by changes in tobacco use.

Tobacco use is and always has been legal in the U.S. At one time, tobacco was commonly chewed. Users spit the resulting juice into ever-present spittoons that were simply accepted by polite society, despite the poor aim that often resulted in disgusting piles of soggy leaves. By the 20th century, smoke-filled rooms and smelly ashtrays had replaced spittoons. Society, however, broadly continued to accept and even encourage the open use of tobacco.

There was some success in legally prohibiting cigarette sales to minors. Common wisdom held that smoking was bad for healthy growth. The health consequences of tobacco use on adults had little negative effect. Increased cost from higher and higher taxes also failed to dampen smoking.

Then it all changed. The tipping point came when smoking was perceived to be socially unacceptable.

http://www.mtexpress.com/opinion/editorials/shame-could-control-guns-better-than-new-laws/article_42901120-0ef2-11e5-9307-cbf03d68cde0.html

Gun control org. are really getting desperate if they think this will work.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. I half-agree. Cultural expectations could go far in getting people to act more responsibly.

Let's face it, we do see stories of people who carelessly violate the tenets of safe gun handling, i.e. assuming a gun was unloaded, pointing it at some, etc. that ends in tragedy. If people are inculcated by family, schools, social norms, etc. to properly respect firearms these tragedies would be reduced in number.

[GGJohn]

2. On that aspect, we agree with each other,

but we both know that it won't stop there, their goal is the total ban on handguns and semi auto rifles, you know, those evil, vile black rifles.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. I can't help but think that making respect for the safe handling of firearms would buttress

the RKBA. If people treat them respectfully they cease to fear them. Fear is all the Controllers have -- and stories of accidental shootings.

We can work to take away the fear and the tragedies to be exploited with a singular effort. The advantage is ours to seize or squander.

[GGJohn]

4. +1000. eom.

[Duckhunter935]

6. well said!

[benEzra]

12. Yep. A case in point is the widespread adoption of Cooper's Four Rules of Gun Safety...

not just by non-LEO civilians, but by many law enforcement agencies.

Prior to the 1970s, it was common to see people holding guns casually with their finger on the trigger, or pointing them carelessly at other people with the excuse "it's OK, it's unloaded". Now, either will get you mocked and derided as a total fricking n00b, whether you are non-LE or an "only one professional enough".

As to feeling "shamed" by ignoroscenti who don't know anything about guns and can't distinguish between responsible ownership/use and incompetence/negligence/criminal misuse, no, that's pretty dumb.

[virginia mountainman]

14. Like this??

California concealed weapon permit holder, Diane Feinstein, wielding an AK47, with a 75 round drum magazine, closed bolt, finger on the trigger in a room full of people.. She has a carry permit, and pushes to "save us" from guns?? She should know right?!



Or this...Bloomberg paid actor, purported to be :"the everyday working man for gun control" with his shotgun, laid across his waist action closed, kids roaming around at random, with finger on the trigger??

?itok=o0vNZRGK

Or Joe Morrissey, big time gun control advocate wielding an chinese semi auto AK above his head with magazine in place, the action closed with his thumb on the trigger... also who just finished serving a prison term for impregnating his underage intern here in Virginia..



Are they, being safe?? After all they are saying that they know how to make us safe from gunz?!

[loooneranger]

15. Totally agree.

We had a rifle core when I went to high school where kids were taught how to properly handle, clean, and shoot firearms. Not 1 accident in the 30 years of the program. We went to competitions all over the state. A few years ago an anti-gun group got the program shut down and now that same group is trying to get the archery team shut down. In those instances the hardcore anti-gun people demonstrate that their concern is not safety, they want a generation of people totally unfamiliar with firearms so that they will be more willing to give up 2a rights.

[Duckhunter935]

5. I like how this person posts obvious falsehoods

It is easier when you have a "safe haven" to be able to post in that you will not be challenged. But we can do it here.

Unfortunately many of the gunners I know have no shame. They gleefully defend the right of convicted wife beaters' access to guns. They flatly state that no law will prevent EVERY SINGLE SHOOTING so no laws should exist. When a violent felon uses a gun to commit more violence they say, "It's already against the law," instead of asking how he got the gun and how it could have been prevented.

No, probably won't work because as I said so many have no shame.

I know this poster will be afraid to respond but if you see this just post one link to prove what you posted. I know it is not true and you will not be able to find one. I double dog dare you!

[GGJohn]

7. I'll never understand the gun controller mind,

why do they think we should be ashamed of owning firearms?

[Duckhunter935]

8. I have no idea

I know I am not. The only ones really that should feel ashamed are some of the open carry nuts.

[oneshooter]

17. Gee, is that the same poster who posted this?

"I made the same points in the gungeon thread and was swarmed for it. Fucking gun trolls. DU would be much better off without them."

[Shamash]

18. No, that was Electric Monk. The "shame" nonsense was flamin lib. n/t

[ileus]

9. What kind of goofy dummy would buy into this stupid shist?

The writer must be a special kind of stupid to not understand the difference between tobacco use and personal protection.

[Travis_0004]

10. Too bad I generally don't give a shit what others think

I'm going to live my life how I want. Plus how do you know who owns guns and who doesnt.

Should we start by shaming Obama since he owns a shotgun, and says he is pro gun?

[Shamash]

11. Because shame works so well with conservative sex ed programs

I guess trying for education or safe handling would have been tantamount to admitting gun ownership was acceptable.

I also like the "inappropriately during political gatherings" line. Perhaps one of them can chime in and tell us where carrying in public is appropriate by their standards? Because as far as I can tell, the list of "inappropriate places" in public is pretty much "in public". Our special little snowflakes get bent out of shape if someone carries:

• near a sporting event
• near a political event
• near a school
• in a public park
• in a restaurant
• in a bar
• in a Kroger
• in a Starbucks
• in a JC Penney
• in a Wal Mart
• in a Target
• in a Food Lion

And that just the ones I can remember off the top of my head from DU kvetching.

[needledriver]

13. Oh, no, not this tired old thing again

Every now and then someone tries to claim that people stopped smoking in buildings and aircraft and restaurants and bars because somehow smoking became "socially unacceptable".

Poppycock.

People stopped smoking in all those places because culpability for the damage caused by second hand smoke became too expensive to overlook. As evidence mounted that you didn't need to puff on a cigarette yourself to be harmed by the guy smoking next to you, businesses and governments decided that forbidding smoking was cheaper than defending themselves against lawsuits from customers and public who were finally able to prove that being exposed to second hand smoke could cause serious health issues.

Trying to create some sort of equivalence between smoking and open carry makes no sense at all.

[Lurks Often]

16. It's worse then desperate, it's delusional n/t

[Eleanors38]

19. "Public shaming" in a culture awash with shake-it-in-your-face dookie squat?

The entertainment culture has made an industry of bad taste and wardrobe malfunctions. Yet someone thinks they can shame someone for anything in this atmosphere. May as well try out-moralizing a gathering of loose-boweled hippos. Not that I am equating myself to river horses, but you get the drift.

[Shamash]

20. Speaking of no shame

My feed from Bizarro Earth just popped up with:

There are two kinds of safe haven groups: Safe haven groups protected by a host who bans unfriendly posters and safe haven groups that are protected by massive swarms of the usual suspects being insulting, intentionally misreading posts and claiming intentional lying and subterfuge on the part of anyone not toeing their line of dogma.

The former is much more civilized and it just eats at the souls of the usual suspects that they can't disrupt.

Which reminds me of this from one of those two groups:

Fucking gun trolls. DU would be much better off without them.

and this:

I should have said "lying asshole, and the worst right wing gun troll in the gungeon".

Good thing flamin lib's safe haven has a host who bans unfriendly posters because that does not seem very friendly to me. I'm sure that host will be banning the above abusive person any moment now.

[GGJohn]

21. And they claim we're the rude, obnoxious ones?

I noticed that flaming doesn't post here anymore after getting his derriere handed to him several times and now he sits in a protected group bad mouthing those of us in the RKBA group.
EM claims we're the problem here quite rudely, yet his favorite group is this one.
Can you way hypocrisy much?