There are two kinds of safe haven groups:(Cross post from GCRA)

[Duckhunter935]

flamin lib
Safe haven groups protected by a host who bans unfriendly posters and safe haven groups that are protected by massive swarms of the usual suspects being insulting, intentionally misreading posts and claiming intentional lying and subterfuge on the part of anyone not toeing their line of dogma.

The former is much more civilized and it just eats at the souls of the usual suspects that they can't disrupt.

It seems to me that this poster has once again got the facts wrong to the point of being untrue. The RKBA is not a safe haven as it is not stated anywhere in the SOP as shown here.....

Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.

Now there is one gun group that is a safe haven and so states in its SOP, this allows posters in that group to continuouusly post insults directed at RKBA members with no fear of being challenged. The Host allows those posts to stand, so he must agree with them as he could post at a minimum a response to calm down the tone.

Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment. The group serves as a safe haven in which to mobilize supporters in support of measures reducing gun violence by changing laws, culture and practice at the municipal, state, and federal levels. While there is no single solution to the tragic epidemic of gun violence, members agree that more guns are not the solution to gun violence, and are expected to be supportive of the policies of progressive gun control reform organizations.

This group allows all points of view and the host and it's members welcome the discussion and perspective of both sides of the issue. The other group does not and has even blocked a member for a self deleted post, I have yet to figure out how that broke the stated SOP. It does not seem to matter to the host over there as he wanted to preemptively block posters before they even posted in his group.You can tell the difference as one poster over there requested to be blocked and still has not as no SOP violations were done by him.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN
I requested banning in one group, despite being told they didn't like to ban
but soon found out I could 'trash' entire groups so that I didn't accidentally post there again. That took care of the problem.

Most if not all of the RKBA people here are for sensible legislation to lower firearms deaths (UBC, better background checks, Open NICS to private sales, Enforce existing laws, better mental health treatment, ETC) but are not for meaningless feel good legislation that will do nothing (bans on cosmetic features, magazine size limits or bans, limits on ammunition purchases, ETC).

The people in this group research and challenge with facts and do not post untruths like this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12629055

There are exceptions to the PLCAA (6) but the level of proof is so onerous that it is practically impossible to win a court case against a weapon manufacturer or seller.

All you have to do is prove a design fault just like any other product.

30,000 gun deaths a year at a cost of $200 billion to the economy and we let the NRA and the Gun Lobby write laws. When is this issue going to get the attention is deserves?

Nice how they include suicide numbers in there to bump up the numbers, What "gun safety" laws are they pushing for to fix these deaths which are the majority of firearms deaths, not to mention the deaths caused by those highly trained law enforcement officers.


It is enough to make you

[Brickbat]

1. I have to say I started reading in this group regularly about six months ago and I've never seen

anything that looks like a swarm full of insults, subterfuge and lying.

[Duckhunter935]

2. Well that is because the poster

Does not tell the truth and will not ever be able to prove it via a link. The ones over there do not care about facts as long as it fits the narrative.

[Brickbat]

3. No, I know.

It's fascinating, really.

[GGJohn]

4. You're gonna love this.

5. Yeah. They keep cross posting my threads so they can trash
them unopposed. Lately I've been called out but I refuse to give them the swarm fest. It just really eats at them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12629056#post5

He really, really thinks that it eats at us?
What he doesn't realize, or he does but just can't bring himself to admit it, is that we're actually laughing at him for his ridiculous threads and posts which are almost always 100% wrong.

[Duckhunter935]

5. At least he is given the option to respond

we are blocked from responding. People like him NEED the "safe haven" because they just can not handle being challenged. I am here, waiting and open to be challenged. Just post a link to prove your point, I know it can not happen so I am not worried.

You are right does not eat at me at all, I find it hilarious.


The only thing that even slightly bothers me is a very nice person that fails to moderate a group and allows insults to DU members to be openly posted.

[beevul]

8. That is so rich.

They keep cross posting my threads so they can trash
them unopposed.

Says the member of a group that was created so that this poster and those that believe as they do could...

Trash guns, gun owners, and the second amendment, without being opposed.


Not to mention, that nothing stops that poster from coming over here and posting, except the fear of being proven wrong without the choir there to support it.

[Duckhunter935]

11. Posted in the "safe haven"

[krispos42]

29. I think the cross posting allows actual discussion

Instead of simple "ditto-head" self reinforcement.

[GGJohn]

6. Apparently I've been promoted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026825053#post13

Why was I not informed of this?

[Duckhunter935]

7. Congratulations

Hope you get a pay increase

[beevul]

9. An interesting post in that thread.

Trust me, I spent probably like 6 months poking them with a stick and then another 6 months banning every incoming gun troll I could on MIRT.

By their own admission, that poster spent 6 months trolling us, then another 6 months banning "gun trolls".

I'm trying to remember, if I have ever seen a case of a gun control pusher scratched, in which a hypocrite was not uncovered.

I cant seem to find even a single example.

[Duckhunter935]

10. I saw that

If you look, that is the primary host who posted that.

The same thing seems to be happening with someone else coming over here and attempt to get hides. Both of them have admitted they have tried to get this group removed. I have to thank the admins for not allowing that to happen.

[beevul]

27. Did you hear the scraping of those goalposts?

It came from over there, that away behind the locked gate, so loud it hurt me ears:

It works when they're contained, it's a strategy of isolate and ignore.

They want to "contain and ignore" us...you know...when they're not spending 6 months poking us with a stick and then another 6 months trying to ban pro-gun posters for no other reason than because we're pro-gun.

See, they're not all bad.

[Duckhunter935]

28. I like the block over there

For one self deleted post that was only up for about a minute. The poster was blocked after he self deleted after he mistakenly put it in the wrong group.

[DashOneBravo]

12. I honestly can't decide what's worse

Last edited Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:51 PM - Edit history (1)

If it's snivelling about a gun thread in GD or gloating. You're just not a good advocate for gun guys

[Duckhunter935]

13. ????

[DashOneBravo]

14. Don't play dumb

You whine on every gun thread.

[Duckhunter935]

15. Ok

[DashOneBravo]

19. Edit..

I'll cease fire.

[Shamash]

16. Perhaps you could give us a good counter-example?

Someone well-informed, articulate and polite on the control side to show us what not sniveling, not gloating and being a good advocate looks like? But try not to pick someone who made the cut for this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=9858

unless your standards for "good advocacy" are very, very low.

[DashOneBravo]

17. Edit

Last edited Sat Jun 13, 2015, 07:03 AM - Edit history (4)

Edited ... Not worried about a hide. I Just made an broad assumption in that post.

There is prob a reason people alert stalk that poster . I find that style of posting about the same as the open carry activists.

Just my opinion.

[Shamash]

18. So far, you are only speaking for yourself

I see no constituency of "a lot of us Democratic gun owners and veterans" behind you.

And in any case, if you are their appointed representative, it would be proper for you to step up and be the example of good advocacy, otherwise you might fall into the "those who cannot do, criticize" category.

[DashOneBravo]

20. See post above

[Shamash]

23. We -do- get heated at times

I would much prefer to have a polite discussion where all parties are well-informed and understand that this is a complex issue that has no place for talking points, sound bites, propaganda and stereotypes. I have only run into two people on DU who meet the polite, etc. qualifications on the gun control front, and only then in private messages. And these two individuals stay away from GCRA as much as if they were banned from it.

I have little tolerance for people who see ignorance as a virtue, believe in something and then look for reasons to justify it, or who see the Wikipedia entry for logical fallacies as their debate manual. And I'm not shy about showing that lack of tolerance for crap-throwing monkeys when they disrupt a discussion where civil liberties and lives are affected by the policies under debate. If someone claims to be a liberal but is functionally identical to any other bigot, differing only in what they irrationally hate, I have no qualms about pointing it out. It generally makes them so uncomfortable to be presented with something they cannot refute that they either make an even bigger fool of themselves with the reply or they go away completely.

Sometimes both, as the GCRA post of the same title illustrates, with the admin of the GCRA group running back to a group where he cannot be criticized and then calling us "fucking gun trolls" and a GCRA member's followup that complains about RKBA rudeness. As far as I am concerned, that's absolutely perfect. The blatant hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness of the head of that group and one of its most frequent posters does as much to discredit the extreme gun control position as any Constitutional analysis could.

Reason is not going to change their minds. Mocking them is not going to change their minds either, but it has the added purposes of amusement value and encouraging them to dig their hole deeper. And I can say this where they can read it and it will make no difference, because rabid ideologues of any type cannot resist rising to the bait and making fools of themselves, even if they know it is against their best interests to do so.

Realistically, changes of any type are not going to be made by extremists in either camp anymore than Obama is going to sit down with Westboro Baptist to discuss same-sex marriage policies. The RKBA group is composed of liberal gun owners. If a gun control argument cannot convince us of its virtue, it is not going to convince anyone who is not a liberal.

[DashOneBravo]

24. I get it.

I read the same the posts that you do. Calling us (gun owners) every name in the book.

I just don't think it adds anything to our side by doing that bombing every thread in GD.

It's a discussion board and I'm just discussing my opinion.

[Duckhunter935]

25. Well I never posted in that last GD thread

I do admit alerting as it was against the GD SOP and Skinner's guidance on gun related posts. This was found to be true and the host that locked the discussion nicely pointed out it should be posted in a state related group and it could also be posted in one of the gun related groups. One even is a safe haven if the poster was not comfortable with differing opinions. Skinner has posted that GD is not a gun forum.

GUNS

News stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about efforts to strengthen or weaken gun control legislation in any jurisdiction in the United States, national news stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about high-profile gun crimes, and viral political content from social media or blogs that would likely be of interest to a large majority of DU members are permitted under normal circumstances.

Local stories about gun crime and "gun porn" threads showing pictures of guns or discussing the merits of various firearms are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted in the Gun Control and RKBA Group.

Open discussion of guns is permitted during very high-profile news events which are heavily covered across all newsmedia.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

[DashOneBravo]

30. It seems petty

Did you stand outside the PX and make uniform corrections?

[Duckhunter935]

31. Nope

I just know what has happened in the past. It turns into a shitfest with the insults and name calling by one side. That is why Skinner had the two gun related groups made and put his guidance up. You do see how one side does respect those rules and guidance, right.

[Shamash]

26. Fair enough. n/t

[ileus]

21. Reads to me like the banners are mad they can't ban within this group.

If only this was a regressive antigun echo chamber forum, then we could really discuss "ideas".

[Duckhunter935]

22. well there is a big difference

one is thriving and one is on the death bed, with only 1 or 2 regular posters.Mmmmmmm.