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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 08:52 AM Oct 2015

I'm thinking of starting my own petition, RE: Colleges and gun law

Any college faculty that promotes policies that deny students their civil rights should forfeit all public funding.

This includes the right to keep and bear arms provided the student is legally eligible according to the laws of their resident state up to and including the right to carry on campus, concealed or otherwise, in accordance with state law.

The courts have already affirmed the RKBA. The case law is there declaring the RKBA an individual right. This is not only established US constitutional law but also recognized rights within the constitutions of 44 states.

For a faculty member to demand a student forego exercising their legal rights is no different than faculty making disparaging remarks about race, religion, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation. It would create an environment hostile to law-abiding students.

Therefore, faculty who imagine themselves above the law and who would disrupt the learning environment should be put on notice that their departments will forego all public funding and they will denied the use of publically supported facilities and resources. If they feel entitled to thumb their noses at society then they can set aside their reliance on society's money.


I'm willing to bet my petition will gain more popular support than "Cocks before Glocks."

139 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I'm thinking of starting my own petition, RE: Colleges and gun law (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 OP
You really yearn for the Destruction of Higher Education, don't you? stone space Oct 2015 #1
Imposing your personal prejudices on a captive audience isn't education, higher or lower. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #2
Your Anti-Education agenda is clear. (nt) stone space Oct 2015 #4
Taxpayers aren't paying for teachers to bully students. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #6
Guns on campus bully both students and faculty. (nt) stone space Oct 2015 #7
No they don't by virtue of the fact they pay armed cops to maintain a presence on campus. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #8
"Copied and pasted here to guard against deletion:" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #5
K&R'd for visibility (nt) stone space Oct 2015 #3
I'll K&R it for visibility also, GGJohn Oct 2015 #9
Good. The NRA groupies here need to either own this, or disown this. stone space Oct 2015 #11
And that pic is supposed to prove what? GGJohn Oct 2015 #12
It proves that faculty are willing to stand up to those who would destroy education. (nt) stone space Oct 2015 #14
If they're violating state law, GGJohn Oct 2015 #15
I am sure if they feel so inclined Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #19
yes, and Kim Davis was standing up to those gejohnston Oct 2015 #39
They are standing up in front of the Main Building. Hangingon Oct 2015 #48
The 1966 UT snioer received return fire from students... and one faculty member... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #106
forgotten facts Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #107
Here is my K&R Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #18
Do you believe in defunding entire Departments, also? (nt) stone space Oct 2015 #20
If the department heads are complicit in the offense? Yes. Otherwise they should Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #22
I expect faculty to follow the law Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #23
Faculty would "disrupt the learning environment." Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2015 #10
I take it you're unfamiliar with the poster who assures us he would refuse to teach if Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #13
I'd cancel class immediately and call the cops if I saw a gun in my classroom. stone space Oct 2015 #16
Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #21
Sickening Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #24
This is a blatant and knowing lie and should be hidden. stone space Oct 2015 #31
Well, then by all means, GGJohn Oct 2015 #33
OK. Here's the Jury Results. stone space Oct 2015 #49
the ones that voted to hide Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #52
They know "guns kill people" and "NRA bad" ileus Oct 2015 #60
I know Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #62
Basically every one uses it as a weapon....just like the alert function. ileus Oct 2015 #66
Skinner said they are going to tweek it Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #67
The hidden post was a blatant lie. stone space Oct 2015 #110
you mean like the ones you posted about me? Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #112
I seem to remember you had a couple of blatant lies GGJohn Oct 2015 #118
Cops use guns. You explicitly claim you will call the cops. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #35
I would laugh Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #41
I hope the police you call Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #45
You would make sure the cops you call were unarmed when they showed up in your classroom, right? n/t shadowrider Oct 2015 #25
Do you think that school shootings are a joke? stone space Oct 2015 #26
If your state passes just such a law that allows for CC in state colleges, GGJohn Oct 2015 #27
If I believe there is a gun in my classroom, class is cancelled immediately and... stone space Oct 2015 #28
Again, GGJohn Oct 2015 #30
He can't answer Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #42
Calling someone a mass-murderer and having them arrested sounds actionable. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #29
Totally unrelated to anything I said. stone space Oct 2015 #36
You said, "I'm not going to allow myself and my students to become targets." That's you claiming Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #38
If I believe there to be a gun in my classroom, I will... stone space Oct 2015 #50
so will you finally PLEASE answer Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #53
What would this law abiding student Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #43
It's a simple yes or no question. shadowrider Oct 2015 #37
And we know how well Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #44
how many school shootings gejohnston Oct 2015 #40
He will never answer Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #46
A joke? Straw Man Oct 2015 #79
I agree with SS here, unless the firearm was OC'd there is no reason for a CC'd firearm to ileus Oct 2015 #34
How do you see a properly Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #47
No, actually, I did read that post. Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2015 #17
At least you're sticking to your progressive guns on this one. ileus Oct 2015 #32
Your proposal to defund Higher Education is Scorched Earth Politics of the worse kind. stone space Oct 2015 #51
well that is not what he said Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #54
What do you think defunding entire Academic Departments would do to a State University? stone space Oct 2015 #55
only public money as you would be limiting the rights of Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #56
Why should my Department be totally defunded just because of me? stone space Oct 2015 #57
Easy follow the law or quit Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #58
What exactly have I done to justify my entire Department being destroyed by defunding? stone space Oct 2015 #59
You are probably right Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #61
No, I should NOT "just be fired"! stone space Oct 2015 #63
Why Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #64
It's my job. stone space Oct 2015 #65
Because YOU do not get to make law, that is reserved for the legislature Lurks Often Oct 2015 #68
What have I done to you for you to want me fired? stone space Oct 2015 #70
this would be a good reason for you to be fired Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #73
That is NOT a good reason to have me fired. stone space Oct 2015 #76
You seem to have a pattern of fibbing about what others have said, GGJohn Oct 2015 #120
Why do you ALWAYS lie about what people post? Lurks Often Oct 2015 #75
He seems to think he is Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #71
Well sir, I have worked for the last Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #69
The context is the REAL world, not your FANTASY world. stone space Oct 2015 #72
And if it were legal Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #74
"I will cancel class immediately and call the police." Simple question: For what legal reason? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #81
The gun. (nt) stone space Oct 2015 #84
The cops will take a rather dim view of your invention of a nonexistent crime friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #88
And then you could be charged for abuse of the 911 system, GGJohn Oct 2015 #121
Sorry, but I just don't buy your threats. stone space Oct 2015 #130
It's a statement of fact, not a threat. Lurks Often Oct 2015 #133
I'm not threatening you, GGJohn Oct 2015 #134
And if it is legal in your state Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #82
Only in your dreams! stone space Oct 2015 #90
Since that is essentially Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #92
How do you differ from Kim Davis, aside from the subject of your special pleading? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #93
He says he teaches Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #96
Are you aware that filing a false police report is a crime in most places? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #85
Are you accusing me of filing a false report? stone space Oct 2015 #89
Not if you haven't called the cops about something that you know quite well is legal... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #91
That makes two of us Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #95
If I believe there to be a gun in my classroom, then... stone space Oct 2015 #97
Trying to play the victim now? Lol Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #102
Bringing a gun to my class is not following the law. stone space Oct 2015 #103
The op and all of this discussion Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #104
Maybe not at this time, GGJohn Oct 2015 #123
Calling the police on a student Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #94
You know absolutely nothing about the law. stone space Oct 2015 #99
Lol Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #100
I just don't know why you think you can bring a gun to my class and not be arrested. stone space Oct 2015 #101
As I have stated many times and so does the OP Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #105
As I have stated many times over, ... stone space Oct 2015 #108
Then why are you commenting Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #111
If you called the cops on a student legally CC'ing, GGJohn Oct 2015 #122
Maybe... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #124
It sounds to me like Mr Space is full of himself. GGJohn Oct 2015 #125
on the contrary... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #126
I'm just going to leave this here without comment. beevul Oct 2015 #128
yep Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #127
How could it be destroyed? I rather doubt you are either a) the only instructor, or b) irreplaceable friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #77
Totally defunding the Department of Mathematics here would destroy it. stone space Oct 2015 #78
Why would the entire department be defunded, instead of merely firing those disobeying the law? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #80
Follow the law Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #86
I know, right Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #83
No, professor Big_Mike Oct 2015 #114
Be careful Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #115
Responses. stone space Oct 2015 #116
"I'm not wrong about the law." Yes, you are, whether you choose to believe it or not friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #117
Professor, I apologize for the tardiness of my response; real life occurred Big_Mike Oct 2015 #138
Some excellent points discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2015 #139
You really think highly of yourself don't you? GGJohn Oct 2015 #119
don't most states ban carring weapons on govt property already... mike_c Oct 2015 #87
Unfortunately he can't answer Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #98
I'll answer: Lurks Often Oct 2015 #109
that and state Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #113
If I believe there is a gun in my class, I'll cancel class immediately, and call the police.(nt) stone space Oct 2015 #129
Yes, we know, you've said that about 1000 times now Lurks Often Oct 2015 #131
Someone needs to... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #132
I will try Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #135
good work discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #136
I try Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #137
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
1. You really yearn for the Destruction of Higher Education, don't you?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 08:55 AM
Oct 2015

Copied and pasted here to guard against deletion:


I'm thinking of starting my own petition, RE: Colleges and gun law

Any college faculty that promotes policies that deny students their civil rights should forfeit all public funding.

This includes the right to keep and bear arms provided the student is legally eligible according to the laws of their resident state up to and including the right to carry on campus, concealed or otherwise, in accordance with state law.

The courts have already affirmed the RKBA. The case law is there declaring the RKBA an individual right. This is not only established US constitutional law but also recognized rights within the constitutions of 44 states.

For a faculty member to demand a student forego exercising their legal rights is no different than faculty making disparaging remarks about race, religion, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation. It would create an environment hostile to law-abiding students.

Therefore, faculty who imagine themselves above the law and who would disrupt the learning environment should be put on notice that their departments will forego all public funding and they will denied the use of publically supported facilities and resources. If they feel entitled to thumb their noses at society then they can set aside their reliance on society's money.


I'm willing to bet my petition will gain more popular support than "Cocks before Glocks."

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
15. If they're violating state law,
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:19 AM
Oct 2015

then they will face sanctions, and rightly so.
And just how would it destroy education?
The other college's that allow CC are doing just fine with their education programs, what makes this college different?

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
19. I am sure if they feel so inclined
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:27 AM
Oct 2015

They can quit on principle. Bet they will not. They just want the paycheck more.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
39. yes, and Kim Davis was standing up to those
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:25 AM
Oct 2015

who were destroying marriage and violating "God's word".
Oh, there is a difference between education and indoctrination.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
48. They are standing up in front of the Main Building.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 11:31 AM
Oct 2015

This is preaching to the choir. If they are serious let them go about 5 blocks Southand protest the legislature.p

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
106. The 1966 UT snioer received return fire from students... and one faculty member...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:51 PM
Oct 2015

who fired back from his office with (presumabl) a deer rifle. Students retrieved their rifles from residences. In 1970, UT police told me to keep my shotgun in my dorm room until I had reason to use it. He seemed amused that I would inquire about gun policy. I ended up in off-campus housing.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
18. Here is my K&R
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:25 AM
Oct 2015

Legal carry for students over 21 that are licensed and trained. Last the firearms are concealed and the calculus teacher or other professor would never know the weapon is present.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
22. If the department heads are complicit in the offense? Yes. Otherwise they should
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:48 AM
Oct 2015

discipline their faculty. I feel the same way if they were complicit in allowing an Islamophobic professor disparage Muslim students in class.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
13. I take it you're unfamiliar with the poster who assures us he would refuse to teach if
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:15 AM
Oct 2015

he suspected one of his students was concealed carrying. He would refuse to enter class and demand the student be evicted from class by the police.

That strikes me as fairly disruptive of the learning environment.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
16. I'd cancel class immediately and call the cops if I saw a gun in my classroom.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:19 AM
Oct 2015
I take it you're unfamiliar with the poster who assures us he would refuse to teach if he suspected one of his students was concealed carrying. He would refuse to enter class and demand the student be evicted from class by the police.

That strikes me as fairly disruptive of the learning environment.


And you think that the entire Department of Mathematics here should be totally defunded simply because of that?

Seriously?

Guns are disruptive of the learning environment.

Response to stone space (Reply #16)

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
31. This is a blatant and knowing lie and should be hidden.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:05 AM
Oct 2015
So you admit you would call for guns to be used against law-abiding students.
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
49. OK. Here's the Jury Results.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 11:32 AM
Oct 2015
Well, then by all means,

alert on it.



AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert

Mail Message



On Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:51 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

So you admit you would call for guns to be used against law-abiding students.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=177790

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

"So you admit you would call for guns to be used against law-abiding students."

Poster said nothing even remotely resembling that.

This vile accusation should be hidden.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:27 AM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: As much as laws should be changed regarding weapons, on this post I do not find hide worthy.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Will people on this site ever develop thicker skin? My goodness people are soft.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Gun love is a sickness.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
52. the ones that voted to hide
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:06 PM
Oct 2015

could not even bother to make a comment, lol. That is except the one that said "gun love is a sickness", funny that is not even what was at issue with the alerted post. Typical that the controller side does not even have the basic civil attitude to actually rule on the content of the post. That however does not surprise me and juror #6 really should be alerted on for abusing the jury system

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
62. I know
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:48 PM
Oct 2015

That is why my jury blacklist is full, wish it could be just a bit bigger, you can generally tell who will not truthfully perform jury duty and use it as a weapon.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
66. Basically every one uses it as a weapon....just like the alert function.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:56 PM
Oct 2015

I had a hide last week making fun of a post above mine, by wording it differently and someone whined about it. I got dinged again....LOL people sure are touchy.

My question is if you do one of those silly alerts is that one canned complaint "rude, over the top ect..." the only selection???

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
67. Skinner said they are going to tweek it
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:00 PM
Oct 2015

Saw that somewhere but truthfully, I do not think it would help. They still do not believe in alert stalking. I know it is true a had a round a dozen of my posts alerted on over a couple of days. Survived most but I was put on vacation after my apology was hidden, lol

I get a kick out of some of jury comments, I vote to hide because I hate the gunz, lol. What a croc

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
112. you mean like the ones you posted about me?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 03:52 PM
Oct 2015

The difference is, I confront those lies with the facts and you have to run and alert. I try not to alert myself. It was barely hidden, I love this comment

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Gun love is a sickness.


What has that got to do with the post in question? Nothing at all and it is just another hateful comment and another abuse of the jury system.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
118. I seem to remember you had a couple of blatant lies
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:06 PM
Oct 2015

hidden a few months ago, didn't you?
You really should be careful with your comments about lying.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
35. Cops use guns. You explicitly claim you will call the cops.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:11 AM
Oct 2015

A student who lawfully carries is law abiding.

You said you will call the cops -- people with guns -- to deal with law abiding students. If your words embarrass you that is your problem, not mine.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
41. I would laugh
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:30 AM
Oct 2015

If the cops with guns show up and decide no laws are broken and the student is allowed to stay.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
45. I hope the police you call
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:40 AM
Oct 2015

Are requested to be unarmed by you. Otherwise you are calling on armed individuals to harass a law abiding student. And that sir, is just sickening.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
26. Do you think that school shootings are a joke?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 09:58 AM
Oct 2015

I'm not going to allow myself and my students to become targets just so satisfy some gun nuts on the internet.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
27. If your state passes just such a law that allows for CC in state colleges,
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:01 AM
Oct 2015

you won't have much choice but to allow firearms in the university's classrooms.
One other question, how would you know if a student was armed?
After all, it would be concealed.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
28. If I believe there is a gun in my classroom, class is cancelled immediately and...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:03 AM
Oct 2015

...the police will be notified.

I live in the real world, not in one of your fantasy worlds.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
42. He can't answer
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:32 AM
Oct 2015

And he knows it. He has been asked several times and he is afraid to actually answer that simple question. Actually quite telling.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
38. You said, "I'm not going to allow myself and my students to become targets." That's you claiming
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:21 AM
Oct 2015

the student you would have arrested is targeting you and your students, i.e. a mass-murderer, and then having them arrested as such.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
50. If I believe there to be a gun in my classroom, I will...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 11:47 AM
Oct 2015

...dismiss class immediately, and call the police.

It really is that simple.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
53. so will you finally PLEASE answer
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:09 PM
Oct 2015

the question you have been asked many times and seem to be scared to actually answer?

If the 21 or older student has been trained and licensed and is legally carrying CONCEALED, how do you know?

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
43. What would this law abiding student
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:34 AM
Oct 2015

You "think" might be carrying be guilty of to call for armed police?

shadowrider

(4,941 posts)
37. It's a simple yes or no question.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:17 AM
Oct 2015

Would you make sure the police you call are unarmed when they show up to your classroom? Guns being disruptive and all that.

Of course, from seeing your (non)answers to others questions leads me to believe you'll not answer.

That tells me you WOULD allow armed police in your classroom which means you aren't anti-gun at all. You simply want them consolidated in the hands of the "authorities", i.e. LEO and military and not in the hands of citizens.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
46. He will never answer
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:50 AM
Oct 2015

He knows the truth and will be showing how ignorant and stupid his argument is.

Jurors, since I expect to be alerted on, note I did not call the person ignorant or stupid.

Straw Man

(6,657 posts)
79. A joke?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:47 PM
Oct 2015
Do you think that school shootings are a joke?

I'm not going to allow myself and my students to become targets just so satisfy some gun nuts on the internet.

Do you think that a school shooter will be deterred from coming on campus because of a law banning weapons? That someone bent on a murder/suicide will turn around and go home when confronted with a "Gun Free Zone" sign?

That's a joke.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
34. I agree with SS here, unless the firearm was OC'd there is no reason for a CC'd firearm to
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:10 AM
Oct 2015

be visible.


Firearms should always be in a holster in public except to save lives.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
32. At least you're sticking to your progressive guns on this one.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:07 AM
Oct 2015

Problem is the "guns kill people" and "gunshow loophole" true believers would drown out your message.

The first step in higher education is being...

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
51. Your proposal to defund Higher Education is Scorched Earth Politics of the worse kind.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 11:53 AM
Oct 2015

The GOP and the NRA would no doubt both love your proposal.

It is anti-intellectual knownothingism at its finest.



 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
54. well that is not what he said
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:11 PM
Oct 2015

Seems like you are just not telling the truth. Words do matter and you really should apologize for not telling the truth.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
55. What do you think defunding entire Academic Departments would do to a State University?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:14 PM
Oct 2015

He wants to defund the entire Department of Mathematics here just because of me, for example.

That single action would destroy my university.

The RKBA Agenda for Higher Education in this country is becoming quite clear.





 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
56. only public money as you would be limiting the rights of
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:19 PM
Oct 2015

law abiding students who would be following state law. You would not be following state law and should accept sanctions for breaking state law.

For a faculty member to demand a student forego exercising their legal rights is no different than faculty making disparaging remarks about race, religion, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation. It would create an environment hostile to law-abiding students.

Therefore, faculty who imagine themselves above the law and who would disrupt the learning environment should be put on notice that their departments will forego all public funding and they will denied the use of publically supported facilities and resources. If they feel entitled to thumb their noses at society then they can set aside their reliance on society's money.


go find other funding if you want to limit students rights and not follow state law.

So in other words, you are not telling the truth and should apologize.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
57. Why should my Department be totally defunded just because of me?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:23 PM
Oct 2015
only public money


Do you understand what a State University is?

We're totally funded with public money. Taxpayers pay my salary. Taxpayers pay for the entire operation of the Department of Mathematics.

We can't afford to have the Department of Mathematics shut down here.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
58. Easy follow the law or quit
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:26 PM
Oct 2015

I am sure there are other calculus teachers out there that would like that public money. Sounds like you REALLY like that public money. Just follow the law and you and your department would be funded with OUR money.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
59. What exactly have I done to justify my entire Department being destroyed by defunding?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:36 PM
Oct 2015

I am sure there are other calculus teachers out there that would like that public money. Sounds like you REALLY like that public money. Just follow the law and you and your department would be funded with OUR money.


This reads like some libertarian screed against taxes for education.

Are you sure you are posting at the right website?

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
61. You are probably right
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:46 PM
Oct 2015

You should just be fired when you refuse to follow the law and call the armed police on a student that is following the law. Of course that is fine in your world. Nothing like calling armed officials on a student that was doing nothing illegal. And since the law says all firearms will be concealed, I am curious on who you would call the police on, would you profile? would it be by race or ethnicity? Style of dress? Of course if they do not fire you and you do not take the road of resignation for failing to follow state law and infringing on the the students legal rights, sanctions against the department should be called for. Just not this first step.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
63. No, I should NOT "just be fired"!
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:48 PM
Oct 2015
You should just be fired


You are just making up lies in order to justify having me fired over nothing.

All I said was that if I believe that there is a gun in my classroom, I will cancel class immediately and call the police.




 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
64. Why
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:53 PM
Oct 2015

If the firearm is concealed and nothing is going on would you call the armed police on students peacefully trying to get an education.

I am not lying, you really should stop digging.


And if you refuse to do the job you are being paid via public funding and calling the armed police on students that are doing nothing illegal, yes you should be fired! You sure like that public money, do your job or lose it.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
65. It's my job.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 12:55 PM
Oct 2015
Why


Why do you want to see me fired from my job?

Sometimes RKBAers can be so mean to those of us in the 99% who work for a living.






 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
68. Because YOU do not get to make law, that is reserved for the legislature
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:06 PM
Oct 2015

So if you refuse to obey the law, you should most certainly be fired.

It is a very, very simple concept, no matter your personal feelings you ARE NOT above the law.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
70. What have I done to you for you to want me fired?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:09 PM
Oct 2015

Made up shit doesn't count.

It seems like a simple case of blind hatred on your part.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
73. this would be a good reason for you to be fired
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:15 PM
Oct 2015

since the topic is legalizing concealed carry under state law

50. If I believe there to be a gun in my classroom, I will...

...dismiss class immediately, and call the police.

It really is that simple.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=177831

Calling for armed police on your students doing nothing illegal and you refusing to do your job that the public pays for, yes you should be fired.

So how do you know if a student is carrying a legally concealed firearm? Profile?
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
76. That is NOT a good reason to have me fired.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:33 PM
Oct 2015
this would be a good reason for you to be fired


You must live in a fantasy world if you think it is.



50. If I believe there to be a gun in my classroom, I will...

...dismiss class immediately, and call the police.

It really is that simple.






GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
120. You seem to have a pattern of fibbing about what others have said,
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:15 PM
Oct 2015

like you did with some of my posts a few months ago.
Please, just stop.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
75. Why do you ALWAYS lie about what people post?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:26 PM
Oct 2015

My post was very, very clear: "If you refuse to obey the law, then you should most certainly be fired. It is a very, very simple concept, no matter what your personal feelings, you ARE NOT above the law"

That means that if you were a professor at University of Texas-Austin or any other state funded university or college in Texas and you refused to teach because there was a gun in the classroom, then you are in violation of state law and can be fired accordingly. Additionally, as a professor at a Texas state university, if you repeatedly called the police every time a student with a legal CCW was present in your classroom (not that you would know), then the police could charge YOU with a crime.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
71. He seems to think he is
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:10 PM
Oct 2015

and we are mean for wanting him fired for calling armed police on his students for doing nothing illegal. Talk about a police state.

Best part is if the police showed up and allowed the students to stay as they are doing nothing wrong under state law.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
69. Well sir, I have worked for the last
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:08 PM
Oct 2015

35+ years and probably in a lot less cushy places as you. No, I do not want to see you fired, so please do not post outright lies like that.

The context is If you called the armed police on a student that is fully law abiding for doing nothing wrong, you should be fired. I see you still ill not answer how you "think" there might be a firearm in your classroom if was legal withing the state. Since it must be concealed I assume you would have to do some kind of profiling, do you use race or ethnicity, style of dress for that?

Bottom line again do you job and there would be no cause for you to be terminated, fail to follow the law and call for armed police on law abiding students, YES you deserve to be FIRED!

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
72. The context is the REAL world, not your FANTASY world.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:13 PM
Oct 2015

In the REAL world, if I believe there is a gun in my classroom, I will cancel class immediately and call the police.









 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
74. And if it were legal
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:17 PM
Oct 2015

within your state for that student to carry concealed, you should be fired. Not nice to call armed law enforcement for a student doing a legal activity.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
81. "I will cancel class immediately and call the police." Simple question: For what legal reason?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

"Offending stone space's sensibilities" is not a crime.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
130. Sorry, but I just don't buy your threats.
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 06:42 AM
Oct 2015
And then you could be charged for abuse of the 911 system, filing a false police report, etc.


You are just trying to bully faculty members into endangering the lives of their students and themselves when you make such threats.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
133. It's a statement of fact, not a threat.
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 08:07 AM
Oct 2015

If your state changes it's laws to allow CCW on university campuses, you have NO legal authority to prevent a student, who has a CCW, from carrying a gun in your classroom.

Any attempt to use the police to prevent that can open you up to both criminal and civil penalties. If you don;t believe us, you should go ask one of the professors that teach law at your university.

Your chronic and gross misunderstanding of the law being discussed is why no one takes your answers seriously.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
82. And if it is legal in your state
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

And that student is following the law and is licensed and carrying concealed. I hope you are penalized if not fired for violating that students rights by calling armed police on them in the real world.

Unfortunately in the real world, you are not above the law!

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
90. Only in your dreams!
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:01 PM
Oct 2015
I hope you are penalized if not fired for violating that students rights by calling armed police on them in the real world.


 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
92. Since that is essentially
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:08 PM
Oct 2015

What you stated you would do. I hope it would not be in my dreams as in the real world even calculus teachers are not above the law.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
89. Are you accusing me of filing a false report?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:00 PM
Oct 2015
Are you aware that filing a false police report is a crime in most places?


 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
91. Not if you haven't called the cops about something that you know quite well is legal...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:06 PM
Oct 2015

...however much it offends you.

If a student actually brandishes a firearm, or threatens someone with it, you would
be justified in doing so. I'd even encourage you to do so in such a case

Unless and until these things happen, you do *not* have the right to harass
those you belive are armed, however strongly you feel about the issue

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
97. If I believe there to be a gun in my classroom, then...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:12 PM
Oct 2015

...I will cancel class immediately and call the police.

That's not making a false report.

That is the instructor of a class acting responsibly for the safety of my students and myself.

All of these threats flying around about having me fired are misplaced, and really quite mean.

It's just a form of bullying.



 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
102. Trying to play the victim now? Lol
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:21 PM
Oct 2015

If the student is following the law and you refuse to and violate their rights by calling armed law enforcement on them. To bad you are not above the law and if you violate the law and fail to do your job we pay you to do, you are not the victim and suffer the consequences of your actions.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
103. Bringing a gun to my class is not following the law.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:25 PM
Oct 2015

You must live in a FANTASY world.

I live in the REAL world.

If I believe that there is a gun in my classroom, then I will cancel class immediately and call the police.

It really is as simple as that.

What part of "NO" don't you understand?


 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
104. The op and all of this discussion
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:30 PM
Oct 2015

Is if you are in a state that it is legal. Read the OP. And read my posts.



This includes the right to keep and bear arms provided the student is legally eligible according to the laws of their resident state up to and including the right to carry on campus, concealed or otherwise, in accordance with state law.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
123. Maybe not at this time,
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:23 PM
Oct 2015

but in the future, if your state legislatures did make it legal, then you would be violating the law if you cancelled class and called the police on a student legally CC'ing and you could be charged.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
94. Calling the police on a student
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:10 PM
Oct 2015

Doing a lawful activity at the least wasted the law enforcement officers time and could be seen as a false report of a crime.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
99. You know absolutely nothing about the law.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:15 PM
Oct 2015
Calling the police on a student

Doing a lawful activity at the least wasted the law enforcement officers time and could be seen as a false report of a crime.


 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
100. Lol
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:17 PM
Oct 2015

I just do not know how you can keep saying you would call armed police on your students doing a lawful activity with a straight face.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
101. I just don't know why you think you can bring a gun to my class and not be arrested.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:19 PM
Oct 2015
I just do not know how you can keep saying you would call armed police on your students doing a lawful activity with a straight face.


This is ignorance of the highest order.



 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
105. As I have stated many times and so does the OP
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 02:34 PM
Oct 2015

If it is legal in your state.


This includes the right to keep and bear arms provided the student is legally eligible according to the laws of their resident state up to and including the right to carry on campus, concealed or otherwise, in accordance with state law.
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
108. As I have stated many times over, ...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 03:31 PM
Oct 2015

...I live in the real world, not some NRA fantasy world.

If I believe there is a gun in my classroom, I will immediately cancel class, and call the police.

No amount of RKBA bullying is going to change that.


 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
111. Then why are you commenting
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 03:47 PM
Oct 2015

on this thread which is about state laws and lawful carry on campus?


This includes the right to keep and bear arms provided the student is legally eligible according to the laws of their resident state up to and including the right to carry on campus, concealed or otherwise, in accordance with state law.

Therefore, faculty who imagine themselves above the law and who would disrupt the learning environment should be put on notice that their departments will forego all public funding and they will denied the use of publically supported facilities and resources. If they feel entitled to thumb their noses at society then they can set aside their reliance on society's money.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172177759

Nobody is bullying you, please quit trying to be the victim. The victim is the student doing a lawful activity that you call the armed police on, not to mention all of the other students that you screwed as you failed to do the job you are being paid to perform. If you decide to break the law, you will have to face the consequences, I hope being terminated for calling the armed police on a student doing a legal thing as long as state law allows it.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
122. If you called the cops on a student legally CC'ing,
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:20 PM
Oct 2015

then that would be filing a false police report and abuse of the 911 system.
Are you really that dense?

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,497 posts)
124. Maybe...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:24 PM
Oct 2015

...Mr Space has such control and is all-being master of time, space and dimension of his college.

Ya' think?

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
125. It sounds to me like Mr Space is full of himself.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:30 PM
Oct 2015

He thinks the University revolves around him and that the institution would collapse without him around.
Talk about an ego.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
77. How could it be destroyed? I rather doubt you are either a) the only instructor, or b) irreplaceable
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:35 PM
Oct 2015

Geez, get over yourself...

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
78. Totally defunding the Department of Mathematics here would destroy it.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:39 PM
Oct 2015

We're a State University.

ALL of our funding us public.

I really get the feeling that some of the gunners in this forum just don't understand how Higher Education works.

I can't imagine how else they could come up with such stupid ideas when it comes to education.



 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
80. Why would the entire department be defunded, instead of merely firing those disobeying the law?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:50 PM
Oct 2015

How do you differ from Kim Davis, aside from the subject of your special pleading?

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
86. Follow the law
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:56 PM
Oct 2015

And don't call armed police on a student doing a lawful act. Nothing would be refunded. Don't follow the law and you need to be fired

Big_Mike

(509 posts)
114. No, professor
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 04:24 PM
Oct 2015

Frankly, you should get one free pass for being wrong regarding public law. Polite ridicule would be warranted.

After a second offense, I would expect you to be counseled in writing regarding unwarranted cancellation of classes, wasting student's time as well as police resources.

Following a third iteration, I would expect you to be suspended without pay for a period of time.

If a forth iteration occurred, I would expect your termination from employment with a negative recommendation posted publicly stating your inability to perform your duties in accordance with school policies and procedures.

As an example, say that you stood up in class and demanded that Blacks, Latinos and anyone other than whites move to the rear of the class, and if the students failed to do so, you would call the police to eject them from the classroom. Besides the rightful outroar of the students, I do not imagine the college would be near as tolerant as what I proposed above.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
116. Responses.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 04:30 PM
Oct 2015
No, professor
Frankly, you should get one free pass for being wrong regarding public law. Polite ridicule would be warranted.


I'm not wrong about the law.

After a second offense, I would expect you to be counseled in writing regarding unwarranted cancellation of classes, wasting student's time as well as police resources.


The cancelation is most certainly warranted if I believe there to be a gun present.



Following a third iteration, I would expect you to be suspended without pay for a period of time.


For what? Doing my job and refusing to expose my students and myself to danger?

If a forth iteration occurred, I would expect your termination from employment with a negative recommendation posted publicly stating your inability to perform your duties in accordance with school policies and procedures.


Again, for what? Doing my job?

As an example, say that you stood up in class and demanded that Blacks, Latinos and anyone other than whites move to the rear of the class, and if the students failed to do so, you would call the police to eject them from the classroom. Besides the rightful outroar of the students, I do not imagine the college would be near as tolerant as what I proposed above.


To compare Blacks and Latinos to Deadly Weapons is racism, plain and simple.




 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
117. "I'm not wrong about the law." Yes, you are, whether you choose to believe it or not
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 05:34 PM
Oct 2015

And while you're here, I'll ask (again) another question:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172177709#post45

Washington State, Utah, and Alaska allow CCW holders to legally carry on state college campuses, and have for years.

Since you're so *very* sure that this practice poses a deadly threat to college instructors,
would you be so kind as to post those instances where a CCW holder shot a teacher
in a college in those states?


You have been given real-world examples of places where students with permits may legally carry firearms in classrooms.

If you can give real-world examples of where this has been problematic, please do so.

Big_Mike

(509 posts)
138. Professor, I apologize for the tardiness of my response; real life occurred
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 08:07 AM
Oct 2015

Thank you for your kind responses.

You state that you are not wrong about the law. I would say rather that you disagree strongly with the law, and perhaps see your actions as some type of protest. You do have the right to protest that to which you do not agree, and to do so as often as you see fit. However, I would presume that your act of calling the police would use the 911 system, stating that you see a gun. This type action would be abuse of the 911 system, which is for emergencies.

Have you never had off-duty police personnel in any of your classes? They are trained and licensed in the use of firearms, and many are even required by their local governments to carry off-duty. I would hazard a guess, based upon my exposure to police personnel getting degrees or post-grad degrees trying to improve themselves, that you have had at least a couple over the years. And BTW, CCW holders are also trained and licensed to carry firearms. Also, in general, they are much better trained in firing their weapons, as many fire weekly or monthly to maintain very frangible skills.

As far as exposing yourself and your students to danger, the students are at a minimum 21 years of age or older. As a group they are very law obiding, as they have gone through multiple requirements to be licensed for CCW.

As far as the Black/Latino issue, I was comparing the acts regarding Federal and State Constitutional protections against persecution due to race, religion, sex, etc., many of which have been confirmed by US Supreme Court as well State judicial rulings, to the ability to keep and bear arms in public, also protected by US Supreme Court and State judicial rulings.



Duckhunter, thank you as well for warning. I have been alerted upon before; however, I don't think I have been hidden to date. I could be wrong, as I sometimes am away from the board for a week or so at a time.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
119. You really think highly of yourself don't you?
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:11 PM
Oct 2015
That single action would destroy my university.

Ummm, no it wouldn't.


The RKBA Agenda for Higher Education in this country is becoming quite clear.


LOL, this is pure comedy gold.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
87. don't most states ban carring weapons on govt property already...
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 01:57 PM
Oct 2015

...like court houses, state capitals, state and federal office buildings, airports, etc. How is that different from banning weapons on state university grounds? Would you contend that states (and the feds) are already violating civil rights by disallowing guns in airports, court houses, and so on?

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
109. I'll answer:
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 03:32 PM
Oct 2015

Court houses, most state capitals, most state and federal office buildings and airports all have a hardened outer perimeter with metal detectors and armed personnel to man the metal detectors, prevent people from bypassing the perimeter and ensure the safety of the people inside of the building.

Doing the same for a university campus would at a minimum be prohibitively expensive, if not impossible.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
113. that and state
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 03:53 PM
Oct 2015

institutions are covered under that states law, I think it is that 10th amendment thing.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
131. Yes, we know, you've said that about 1000 times now
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 07:19 AM
Oct 2015

Last edited Tue Oct 13, 2015, 07:52 AM - Edit history (1)

and we take you no more seriously now then we did the first time you said it.

I'm hoping your state changes the laws and allows CCW at state universities. It's probably just a matter of time.

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