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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 03:27 PM Apr 2016

I have a question for this group.

Suppose you are a sales clerk working behind the counter at a gun dealer.

Two people come in. One asks to handle a number of different guns, the other simply observes without comment. You do your job and demonstrate each selection answering any questions. The one handling the guns and asking questions makes a selection. The second silent passive customer then fills out the forms and passes a background check. Without purchasing any ammunition or other accessories the second customer makes payment.

Would you complete that sale? Why or why not?

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I have a question for this group. (Original Post) flamin lib Apr 2016 OP
I wonder what the clerks training tells them to do... nt jonno99 Apr 2016 #1
No. hack89 Apr 2016 #2
no. It is a straw purchase. gejohnston Apr 2016 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #4
The LGS in my area are very vigilant on that kind of thing DonP Apr 2016 #5
No, and I hope the feds come down on them Duckhunter935 Apr 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #7
No sale would be made by me. I have a question: Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #8
I can't answer that question without being there. flamin lib Apr 2016 #9
"RKBA may be a right but buying a gun isn't." theatre goon Apr 2016 #12
In my experience... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #13
It is the same logic sarisataka Apr 2016 #14
A much better example that a couple of mine... theatre goon Apr 2016 #15
Gun control advocates often copy the anti-abortion movement friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #16
No, Sir, it is not. flamin lib Apr 2016 #17
That sounds very 'kim davisy'. N/T beevul Apr 2016 #18
Could you clarify your statement sarisataka Apr 2016 #19
Exactly. theatre goon Apr 2016 #20
what an odd question bolus Apr 2016 #10
I would not. Too much reason to believe it's a straw purchase. (nt) Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #11
I would not. DashOneBravo Apr 2016 #21
It depends on a few things that aren't covered in your scenario.... Ghost in the Machine Apr 2016 #22

Response to flamin lib (Original post)

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
5. The LGS in my area are very vigilant on that kind of thing
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 06:35 PM
Apr 2016

They tend to err on the side of due diligence and stopping a possible illegal sale. (The fact that Mayor Daley sent out sting operations for several years may have something to do with it too.)

They are also posted; "No Cell Phone Use" to avoid people organizing a straw buy and; "English Only" in the store to avoid the same thing.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
6. No, and I hope the feds come down on them
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:19 PM
Apr 2016

As long as the facts are confirmed to be as stated. It was a straw purchase and i believe against existing law.

Response to flamin lib (Original post)

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
8. No sale would be made by me. I have a question:
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 02:49 PM
Apr 2016

Say you were the clerk.

If a prospective buyer presented his i.d., there was no suspicious 2nd party, and he/she passed the NICS, would you complete the sale? Thanks.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
9. I can't answer that question without being there.
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 04:24 PM
Apr 2016

There are a number of reasons not to complete a sale beyond a straw purchase. If the individual acted uncomfortable, seemed distracted and uncommunicative I'd have to probe further as these are indicative of depression. If the prospect said, "The voices in my head said to buy this one," I'd refuse the sale even if he were laughing when he said it. If the prospect didn't answer questions about the intended use or reason for the purchase or if the answers were vague that would raise red flags.

When I went through the TABC training to sell alcohol we discussed a number of red flags. Everything from young people hanging around just outside the door to signs of even the slightest intoxication.

RKBA may be a right but buying a gun isn't.

 

theatre goon

(87 posts)
12. "RKBA may be a right but buying a gun isn't."
Thu Apr 14, 2016, 07:18 AM
Apr 2016

By the same logic:

Voting may be a right but having access to a ballot or polling place isn't.

Having an attorney present during an interrogation may be a right be being able to contact one isn't.

The freedom of speech may be a right but having that speech actually heard isn't.


No one here supports straw purchases, obviously, but that last line is absolute nonsense.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
13. In my experience...
Thu Apr 14, 2016, 07:27 AM
Apr 2016

...a unifying characteristic of gun-control advocates is the inability and/or refusal to actually define "right".
Maybe they can't accept the idea or just don't like it.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
14. It is the same logic
Thu Apr 14, 2016, 10:18 AM
Apr 2016

Conservatives use with abortion. It may be a right but clinics are not. they will legislate clinics out of existence- for "safety" reasons of course.

 

theatre goon

(87 posts)
15. A much better example that a couple of mine...
Thu Apr 14, 2016, 11:55 AM
Apr 2016

Perhaps if I had had my morning caffeine when I posted, I might have thought of it.

I wish I could say I'm surprised at how many people are willing to toss out rights that they don't, personally, happen to approve of, with "arguments" that they would consider absolutely ludicrous if they were applied to rights that they do, personally, happen to approve of.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
17. No, Sir, it is not.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:22 PM
Apr 2016

A gun dealer is NOT required to sell a gun to anyone. It is not a right.

That said, with more guns than people in the US I'm sure it's a moot point.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
19. Could you clarify your statement
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:13 PM
Apr 2016

Does a gun dealer need a reason to deny the sale, such as suspicion of a straw purchase or a person who seems to be in distress, or can they simply denied for any arbitrary reason, such as they don't like the color of the buyers skin?

 

theatre goon

(87 posts)
20. Exactly.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 06:35 PM
Apr 2016

Just like you have a right to vote, but no one is required to issue you a ballot.

Or allow you into the polling place...

Or count the ballot, assuming your homemade one fits all the requirements, and you can cast it without entering the polling place...

See, that's the way we want it to work -- recognize people's rights, just make them impossible to exercise.

Right?

Right...?

bolus

(14 posts)
10. what an odd question
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 03:18 PM
Apr 2016

what is the point of the question? are you trying to catch people here saying they would agree to doing a straw purchase?

If I asked you if you would sell alcohol to two 15 year olds that came into a store with a homeless guy and had him buy the alcohol, would you do it?

I'm failing to see the point of the question.

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
21. I would not.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:01 AM
Apr 2016

Looks too much like a straw purchase.

I'd also support private sales being able to check if a person is prohibited.

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
22. It depends on a few things that aren't covered in your scenario....
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 01:51 AM
Apr 2016

For instance, how old is the person handling the different guns?? It could be a case of a father or grandfather buying a gift for their underage son/grandson and told them to "pick out one that you really like and want, up to a certain price, and I will buy it for you"...

Otherwise, if it's 2 obviously grown men, of legal age, thenthe answer would be "NO!", because it's an obvious straw purchase!

Peace,

Ghost

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