Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumThe claim that someone fears gun owners so much that they would flee without paying for food
would hold a lot more credence if the people making such claims didn't spend their every waking moment doing everything in their power to antagonize and inflame gun owners.
You can never tell when a gun owner will fly into a murderous rage, we're told. Sure, they might walk into a restaurant with their family just looking for a nice dinner but the least little thing could set them off and the next thing you know bodies would be everywhere so if you see a gun owner the advised course of action is to leave the restaurant in such a hurry that you probably won't have time to pay the bill.
Because, you know, those gun owners are such a volatile bunch.
So, obviously that necessitates making a point of frequently internet groups were gun owners frequent and doing everything in your power to goad them. Posting insulting pictures, use derogatory words, paint them as racists, make them out to be murderers. Do anything and everything to poke them with a rhetorical stick.
Because, you know, those gun owners are such a volatile bunch.
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stone space
(6,498 posts)
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Such antics will not gain someone any sympathy among the average non-partisan audience of such antics. I'd even wager that the non-partisans subjected to such histrionics would probably end up resenting the person who created the commotion for creating more of a commotion than the gun owner and thereby ruining their dining experience.
And, at the end of the day, such tactics are little more than a sad display meant to push public opinion. It will but not in the direction you hope.
Making an obnoxious spectacle of one's self is never a winning strategy.
And, really, it's all just an act; little more than a childish tantrum because -- as the OP notes -- if gun owners are the threat they are portrayed to be than all the other effort to antagonize them would be foolhardy in the extreme. Either gun owners actually are very courteous and reserved and thus do not deserve such slander or the person making the conflicting claims has completely lost their mind because they're inflaming what they claim to so strongly fear.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)There's no reason to continue the discussion, because gun people will not admit to the obvious:
1. Someone displaying a gun in a restaurant is behaving very inappropriately by the norms of the society most of us live in. (Obvious exemption for uniformed cops.)
2. They have a lethal weapon at their fingertips that can be used in a fraction of a second.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If you mean "brandishing" then, yes, that would be inappropriate and it is illegal. If they are carrying it properly holstered then they are within their legal and civil rights.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)and we need to be as far away as we can be from their kind.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Seriously, there are over 14 million people with carry permits, not counting the states that don't require a permit.
They are carrying around you every day, but you don't know it.
Do you pretend they aren't there?
scscholar
(2,902 posts)and I've seen several coffee shops and restaurants clear out when one of their kind walks in.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Try to answer the simple question I actually asked instead of one you'd rather answer.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Murdered by someone using ANY type of rifle
Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)
&op=noop
https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAPONS11-US-Murders-by-Weapon-Type
Remember please that not all law enforcement agencies report to the FBI and not all agencies that do report, report completely.
Your odds of being shot with a rifle are higher than being struck by lightning.
But look at that chart. Notice the downward trend from 1940 onward? Part of that has to do with the nation becoming less rural and more urban. People working indoors are less likely to be struck by lightning than farm workers. Secondly education and science have improved our awareness of the dangers of lightning strikes and how to avoid them.
One of the best ways to avoid lightning strikes is to not be around when storm clouds approach.
The same can be said about rifles and other firearms, the best way to avoid getting shot is to leave the area when a rifle approaches.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)The estimated number of lightning strikes is 297.
https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/#Injuries
The number of unintentional gun deaths averages at 567.
I chose the unintentional stat because lightning also doesn't have intentionality.
And the point remains, if you don't want to be struck by lightning then avoid storms, if you don't want to be shot avoid guns.
Just as gunners claim owning a gun for personal protection is just like insurance, avoiding lightning and guns is just like insurance. Better safe than sorry.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)I misstated what I had heard.
FBI released a report in October 2015.
From 2000-2013 468 people were killed in an active shooter situation...which averages 30 people per year
In that same time period, lightning strikes killed 50/yr according to NOAA
So you are more likely to be killed by lightning than in an active shooter situation.
Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)You're more likely to be struck by lightning than
Murdered by someone using ANY type of rifle
Maybe you've read it.
It is you who are changing the argument. Is that not true?
I like how you put any into all caps.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)accidental death
Buzz cook
(2,471 posts)Show me a citation.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)They were a big tourist draw; selfies & pictures taken, tourists posing with demonstrators, off-hand interviews. I guess they were just part of the act.
Though I don't favor OC, I didn't walk my check when one came into the restaurant where I was eating.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Italian restaurant and you are there. Would you run away screaming. Even if you cannot see the .45's we are both wearing.
DonP
(6,185 posts)I guess as long as they don't see it, they can all pretend there are none around ... then go out and watch the Unicorns crapping ice cream on the sidewalk.
(.45 as daily carry here too.)
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)gun owners are...
Guns and their owners kill endless Americans and people SHOULD be scared of them... I wouldn't leave without paying, but if a bunch of gun nuts came into a restaurant I was in I would take my family and leave, because WHY risk it?
Sure those specific gun nuts might not accidentally shoot me or my children, but that's not good enough for me...
I's probably call over the manager, ask if they supported letting people bring guns into their restaurant, if they said yes I'd tell them they lost a customer for life, pay my bill and leave... either way though, I'd probably just pay my bill and leave... it's not worth the risk to my children...
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Except I'd just leave enough money to cover the check without waiting for the manager to arrive. Then I'd be out the door as fast as I could go without attracting attention.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)You could always call the manager later which is even safer still. Good point.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts).....just never come back?
Finish your meal, pay, and tell the mgr you would not re-visit the establishment unless you see a no guns sign outside next time.
Businesses hate not having business.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Need to tell the manager or owner that you won't visit as long as guns are welcome!
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Unless there is discrimination based on certain protected characteristics, the management is free to set the rules.
Honestly, even though I am a supporter of what I call Rural (or Woodland) Open Carry, I would go to a restaurant that did not welcome rifles.
EDIT: I would PREFER to go to such a restaurant
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Rural (hunting culture) is different. I still remember gun racks in trucks in the high school parking lot.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)On edit: No, no, no, no. I would not finish my meal. I would want OUT.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)But the business would not get any more of my money unless they posted a "no guns" sign and made a BFD out of it.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)there is at least one around here that is proud he would leave without paying.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)really have internet trolls to blame for their assaults and murders? Wha?! Because people were mean to gun owners on the internet, it might make them shoot up a restaurant? So you _are_ saying that gun owners carry guns to demand respect that they wouldn't otherwise get on their own. We are supposed to tread on eggshells around gun owners and not tease them online because they are so easily provoked? Sounds like just the kind of people we might not need to have armed en masse.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Except I don't see gun owners are delicate. I see the group, such as the one here, as longsuffering and good natured, taking years of abuse and returning nothing more than humor.
I'm saying that those who claim we should be fleeing and creating public spectacles are frauds.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)and then they do leave a restaurant, that is not fraud.
There are enough "accidents" and "accidental discharges" for me to leave a restaurant where someone has guns. I'd rather be part of that spectacle than the other spectacle, the one where the gun goes off and people are screaming and bleeding, and have new holes where they didn't have holes before.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)I don't make travel plans on holidays where people tend to drink too much. Or at the hours when the most inebriated are likely to think themselves capable of driving home.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Do you imagine an absolute prohibition on guns will solve violence?
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)I trust people with cars as much as I trust people with guns, that is, not at all, which is why I watch out for people acting queerly, like swerving and looking at their phones, or open carrying at a family restaurant. That is queer behavior, and you won't ever be able to "normalize" it.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)
Squinch
(50,916 posts)Some of them post pictures to the internet and call gun owners mean names.
Those actions, according to you, are inflammatory to some gun owners. And you are proven right about the fact that it inflames gun owners by the actions of some of the assholes out there like the ones who felt the need to point a bunch of weapons at a mother's group at Starbucks.
Your correct assertion that these actions are inflammatory to some gun owners proves that the people are quite right to try to keep gun nuts with guns out of communal spaces.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)It just goes to show that those who advocate for creating spectacles are little more than frauds.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)pointing weapons at a bunch of mothers at Starbucks. To make the point that their rights trump everyone else's.
And I am sure you are a perfectly good judge of character, but your assertion that everyone you know who owns a gun is good natured does not change the absolutely crazy statistics in this country about gun violence, gun deaths, children getting their hands on guns and shooting themselves and others, increased suicide rates with gun ownership, etc.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Squinch
(50,916 posts)that no dumb looking man-boys pointed guns at some group protesting guns.
Well, that's nice, but it doesn't really change anything.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If you're referring to the group of counter demonstrators outside the restaurant where Shannon Watts' "Moms Demand Action" group (Bloomberg's astroturf group) was meeting then no one had a gun pointed at them.
If you're referring to another incident you will have to provide more than an assertion.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)You are making all the same old circular arguments that you always make, but you can't argue with the fact that the number of gun deaths in this country is unnecessary and insane.
And yet, I feel sure you WILL argue that fact... again...
Straw Man
(6,622 posts)You claimed that guns were pointed at an anti-gun group by some counter-protesters. That would have been a crime and immediately actionable. But there is no indication that it actually happened. There isn't even an eyewitness claim to that effect, much less any photos or video.
And now you're hauling the goalposts away. Don't they get heavy after a while?
Squinch
(50,916 posts)You guys always get upset when people don't argue the way you like, but really, tough.
You can pick and nit and nit and pick and feel put upon and make grotesque attempts at humor, all of which has happened in this thread.
And you can high five each other and feel you have made some kind of victory when someone doesn't feel like doing your research for you AGAIN, and doesn't feel like engaging in your circular arguments AGAIN.
But you know, and so does everyone else, that this is just more bullshit.
There is only one goal post: the number of gun deaths in this country is insane and unnecessary. The insanity needs to stop, no matter how much you like your hobby.
Straw Man
(6,622 posts)In summary, you think that any kind of misrepresentation, unsubstantiated claim, or non sequitur must be accepted if it advances your particular agenda and approach to a social problem.
Sorry. That's not the way this works.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)Straw Man
(6,622 posts)... background checks? Oh, we have those. Aggressive prosecution of straw purchasers? Not currently being done, but that's on the ATF.
I'm all for universal background checks, if they could be done instantly between private sellers, by opening NICS to private sellers and/or establishing a firearms-owner ID, as some states do. I'm all for that. How about you?
How about an end to the insane War on Drugs, which, like the War on Booze before it has fueled violent criminal enterprises beyond our worst nightmares. I'm all for that? How about you?
I'm also all for safety training for all gun owners. I do home firearms safety courses pro bono local gun clubs. How about you?
What are you doing besides ranting on the Internet?
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)For everyone who commits a gun crime? With no chance of parole. Does that sound good?
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Sadly, in gun control states when felons are arrested in possession of a firearm...the gun charges are usually the first to be dropped.
If a felon is caught in possession, give them life with a mandatory minimum of 20 years...and repeal the Brady Act. A large portion of the murders in DC and Baltimore are committed by individuals with gun priors.
beergood
(470 posts)self defense is not a hobby
Squinch
(50,916 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)and intelligent reply
beergood
(470 posts)nephew does the exact same thing, my usual response 
, you're a silly little boy.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I know it is uncomfortable to be actually called out on your bull****
Squinch
(50,916 posts)Gun deaths in this country are insanely common and unnecessary. What are gun owners willing to do to stop that?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)not banning bayonet lugs and 30 round magazines.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)No weapons were pointed at anyone and to say that is to push a lie. Let's see a little proof of your charge.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)made a show of armed force against a bunch of mothers because the mothers said things they didn't like.
They were heavily armed assholes, acting like assholes. Adding proof to the concerns of normal people that gun nuts are dangerous imbeciles.
And you want to defend them.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)but I have fought in service to this country for 30 years to protect the free speech rights of ALL, even the ones I do not agree with. They were not doing anything ILLEGAL, it was a protest. The poster was not telling the truth about them pointing weapons at Bloomberg's AstroTurf moms group. I feel it is correct to point out some facts and cut down on the outright lies posted by some that are not well informed on the incident.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)for all we know MDA might have taken the photo from the side, or ripped it off from Facebook to make a false claim. There is no evidence that it was taken at the same place and time, assuming this meeting actually took place. Demonetization is a standard propaganda technique in any culture war. Watts and Bloomberg have a strong habit of making shit up. That is why I always take such claims with more than a grain of salt. FWIW, when it comes to racism and sexism, Mikey is just as bad as Trump. Just not as loud.
Did these "mothers" make it public that they were going to have a lunch there? If not, how would OCT know? If only four showed up, I doubt it was a serious meeting. But then, all of the real members are Bloomberg's paid employees, including Watts. He also provides her with chauffeured limo and armed guards. Of course, that doesn't count "rentals" like K street lobbiests who are paid to be various "officials".
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannontroughton
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Could someone here write a post as if people out there had no idea what you are referring to?
Such as me.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)If someone posts a photo, a little context would be nice.
I'm trying to figure out what is going on in the photo where the guys with AKs are in the parking lot.
It's not easy to search for 'guy with red t-shirt and guys behind a Dodge Durango' and not get 2,000,000,000 results.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)
sarisataka
(18,497 posts)Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor asserting that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with whoever made the claim; if this burden is not met, the claim is unfounded and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it. It is named, echoing Occam's razor, for the journalist and writer Christopher Hitchens, who, in a 2003 Slate article, formulated it thus: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Squinch
(50,916 posts)sarisataka
(18,497 posts)
Squinch
(50,916 posts)sarisataka
(18,497 posts)Now please excuse me; I'm going to go find an adult to have a conversation, dear.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)"....is an....."
Or about the fourth word of your definition.
Not due to lack of intelligence, no...
....but due to the inability to use non-emotion based logic.
sarisataka
(18,497 posts)There isn't any logic at all in their emotion based screeds. They bounce from point-to-point more than the rabbits in my yard.
I do enjoy the irony about how they will accept the word of any random person on the internet and assert fact without the tiniest shred of proof. Yet when presented with peer reviewed data produced by the experts in the field or government agencies such as the Center for Disease Control or FBI, they will dismiss such out of hand because it does not fit their prejudice. Yet if you go over to GD you will see the same people making fun of climate change deniers for failing to accept the same sort of science.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)agencies such as the Center for Disease Control or FBI, they will dismiss such out of hand because it does not fit their prejudice."
Yep -- people who read the science might change their minds. I'm one of them.
Pakid
(478 posts)Guns don't belong in the public square. What you do on your property is one thing but the public square is a different story. Guns can and do discharge when drop and have injured and kill innocent people. I own guns but my father taught me better than to needlessly endanger others. My Father taught real guns safety not the make believe BS the NRA teaches today. If you feel the need to carry in public I suggest you seek help for your fear based problems. Guns do not belong every place and your disregard for the right of other is obvious. No ones right to own a gun should override another person right to live. And open carry and public carry both endanger others. There are many very irresponsible and anger driven gun owner in America today and the open carry advocates are some of the biggest ones. And guns don't make you safer period.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)No, they don't.
Now think about what you're saying for a moment. You're claiming that anyone who wants to carry to fend off criminals in public spaces is only acting out of fear -- not out of any potential to be victimized but out of fear. If there was a chance they could be victimized then they would be justified in carrying.
But the whole point of your dismissal is to get them to not carry a gun because, presumably, the gun owner is more of a threat through a negligent discharge than criminals actively preying on people.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)A quick search reveals that in 2011, there were 15,266 unintentional firearms injuries in the US. Some percentage of these are self-inflicted. 591 of these were fatal.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)You claimed weapons discharge from merely being dropped. There were not 15,266 injuries from weapons being dropped.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)and a bullet comes out? Accidental discharge is accidental discharge. I don't care if the gun owner accidentally grew an alien appendage and it pulled the trigger. I'm not moving the goal posts. My goal is still, always has been and always will be, not to be shot, either accidentally or on purpose.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)No. Accidental would be a mechanical defect and those are virtually unheard of. What you're referring to is a negligent discharge. Proper holsters and safe handling ameliorate those risks.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)the media and most of the population use "accidental discharge" interchangeably with "negligent discharge", to refer to all shootings that didn't seem to have homicidal intent.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/rifle-accidentally-discharges-killing-wife-of-former-eagles-bassist/
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)There is no such thing anymore as an accidental discharge unless a very rare occurrence happens while the firearm is pointing down range at a proper handgun/rifle range and does so safely.
An AR-15 rifle can - very rarely - fire unintentionally when the bolt slams into battery. It's called a slam-fire.
Technically, it's due to a 'floating firing pin' which could dimple the primer as it moves forward during bolt travel
That's why it's not a good idea to 'rack the slide' on an AR unless it is pointed at a proper backstop. Or at the enemy during war.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)Squinch
(50,916 posts)Every person I have engaged with in this thread has used that tactic.
"My hobby enables and funds the gun culture that is responsible for the insane amount of gun deaths in America. But don't require that I face that fact! Look over there! You aren't spending all your time on gun control measures! It must be all your fault! So what do you have to say about that???? Huh???21/?"
It's a psychology thesis just waiting to be written.
stone space
(6,498 posts)There's always some minutia to be split.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=186919
I thought it was only one person that did that
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=187006
when that picture was taken?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=187106
Open carrying?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=187160
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=191956
Squinch
(50,916 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)I've make note of this tactic from time to time.
stone space
(6,498 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=192766
That was just this morning.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)...can make valid points in a gun debate.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)My favorite iteration of that was, and I kid you not, "Pool noodles kill people. Do you want to outlaw pool noodles?"
There are about 7 arguments that they trot out in different forms in every thread where someone points out what they are doing, and they all just swarm and drop those same old silly 7 arguments and it allows them not to look at what they KNOW they are doing.
But they still know what they are doing.
Straw Man
(6,622 posts)...can make valid points in a gun debate.
Only those who know a Webley-Vickers 50.80 inside out can make valid points in a gun debate on legal issues involving the workings of a Webley-Vickers 50.80. See "the shoulder thing that goes up."
DonP
(6,185 posts)Speaking of quibbling ...
Regale us with the record of gun control wins that you have fought so hard for?
And exactly what is it you do, besides posting furiously online, to support your deeply held beliefs in gun control?
So how many gun control organizations do you actually belong to and pay dues to?
How about vacation days or days without pay you've taken off work to go to the state capitol and meet with legislators to let them know how you feel about gun control?
Any Town Halls or zoning board meeting where you speak out against new gun ranges or gun stores?
We'd really like to hear, just once, from a gun control supporter that does something besides just piss and moan online about it.
So what's your real world activity like?
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)A certain one said he provided moral support, which in plain language means he does nothing but say bizarre things in his post's.
DonP
(6,185 posts)They really don't like having their "all talk, no action" hypocrisy pointed out in public.
Much nicer to be able to feel all superior and self righteous online, than actually have to do anything in the real world.
But on the other hand, thanks to their lazy and cheap streak we don't have to work as hard to support our POV.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)the insane amount of gun deaths in this country?
Okaaaaaayyyy......
And by the way, I have spoken, regularly, to every one of my legislators about my expectations for their votes on gun control. And when they don't vote the way I want them to, they hear from me.
But this is all just another one of your quibbles to avoid talking about the fact that guns are responsible for an insane amount of deaths in America and you are enabling and funding and encouraging that.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Gun control can't get any gun laws passed, even with over $50 million a year from Bloomberg and millions more from the Joyce Foundation to work with, but keeps using the feeble excuse that the evil NRA is in control of congress.
At the same time they claim 90% of voters agree with you, but they just never seem to vote that way.
With record high gun sales for years now, violent crime still continues to drop every year to record lows. So much for the "More Guns, More Crime" meme.
And all you have to offer is more restrictions on the law abiding?
If gun control folks really cared so much about the death rate we'd hear loud demands for better mental health care, since 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides. Instead they keep lumping them into all gun crimes to pump up the numbers.
You could also be focusing in the urban areas that account for over 80% of gun crimes and deaths.
But for gun control fans, it's far more important to ban rifles with handgrips that account for less than 270 crimes a year and for those ignorant of the more than 20,000 current laws to demand background checks that are already in place and more feel good laws that have zero impact on criminals.
Oh, it's also apparently far more important to feel, superior, condescending and rude to gun owners than to try to listen to them, reason with them and try to achieve something jointly. Until gun control gets it's head out of its nether regions, they will achieve nothing.
Face it, gun control has no infrastructure and has devolved into a failed culture war.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)unnecessary number of gun deaths in this country. You can't get away from that.
You can bring up all your "look over there!" attempts at distraction from that fact (which is all your post is) but that fact remains.
I am convinced by the rabid-ness of the gun humpers here and in the world at large that you are all perfectly well aware of the fact that you bear responsibility.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)use a little nose candy? If so, you are more responsible than we are. Without demand, there wouldn't be gangs killing each other for market share. Funny thing, until Sandy Hook, the worst school shooting in the world was in Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting
Squinch
(50,916 posts)you bear responsibility through your hobby.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)for the problems in Mexico, Columbia, and almost all of our murders. Why? I don't use any illegal drugs. Heroin and cocaine are completely banned, yet more people die from those than guns. Heroin overdoses outpaced murders last year. Since the Wright Rossi study found that gangs and criminals rarely get their guns from gun stores and never from gun shows, how am I responsible? If Gun prohibition doesn't work in Brazil, Mexico, Venezuela, what makes you think its going to work here?
As for Europe, the murder rates are actually higher now than when there were no gun laws at all. Please explain that. You can't, and you are not even going to try to.
As for Australia... BTW, New Zealand did not change their laws and have the same results.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I don't do drugs, not a member of a gang, or any other high risk activity. If it weren't for beer drinkers, Al Capone wouldn't be machine gunning other gangsters. Same here, just different drug.
Are anti gun authoritarians responsible for this?
http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2015/06/berlin_murder_victim_told_neighbor_about_gun_permi.html
Is NRA-UK responsible for this?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/510227/Sabrina-Moss-machine-gun-gangsters-jail
Why don't you use facts and evidence, like I have, to support your arguments? I know why. You can't, because they are not on your side. That is why the prohibition lobby makes shit up and appeals to emotion. Get back with me when you can make an intelligent fallacy free argument.
until then.................................................
Squinch
(50,916 posts)totally comfortable with the fact that you are enabling, funding and supporting the industry that is responsible for the insane and unnecessary numbers of gun deaths in this country.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I'm also funding wildlife habitat restoration, recovering endangered species, and exercising a right. Granted, authoritarians and totalitarians don't believe in rights, but that isn't my problem. Or at least rights for the masses, but love them for themselves.
This is the quality of your arguments
This is me reading such nonsense
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)to argue.
So now it's a 'hobby.'
Well, that's great. So during the winter, when I cannot work on the outside of my house....
I know that the right to keep and run model railroads will not be infringed.
Excellent.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)My dad, who worked for the Union Pacific, had a S gauge. I always leaned towards HO. I never set up a cool layout.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Entire city in a 4 by 4
DonP
(6,185 posts)I had a boss that had a complete landscaped Z gauge set up in a large glass topped table in his office with a wireless controller. One was an old 4-6-4 Pennsylvania steam engine and another was a Santa Fe Super Chief Streamliner with the war bonnet paint job.
Knowing what just those engines go for, must have been a fortune.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)and bought an N gauge subway train before they sold out.
Worth thousands now, but I'm not selling.
DonP
(6,185 posts)I, like every other gun owner, all 100 million of us, each bears the responsibility for our own actions and none for what criminals choose to do. No more than you with a computer, bear responsibility for child porn collectors because they happen to use the same model of computer you use. You seem to have trouble discerning the difference between criminal action and law abiding people.
Guilt by broad association isn't going to get you anywhere and it's really pretty stupid as an argument. Stereotyping groups of people because you don't agree with them also isn't a terribly progressive value, last time I looked.
But maybe you think it's OK and makes you look smart to smear a group you don't agree with. You'll really love voting for President Trump then. He's big on smearing people that don't agree with him too, just like you.
Keep spewing rude, brainless crap about gun owners and you'll get nowhere, which is pretty much where you and gun control as a movement are right now. Someday, maybe, you'll pull your head out, stop screaming and whining and want to work to achieve something besides your own smug, self satisfaction. Come back when you can speak intelligently and not in bumper sticker slogans. Learn something about the subject beyond how you "feel" about it, which no one cares about but you.
In the meantime, keep up all that good work you're doing to support gun control. It's working so very well.
I'm going to the range now. I have a class of 7 people that want to get their concealed carry permits, tonight they have to qualify and they are far more important than some online whiner with nothing to offer but their own fears and ignorance.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)is an insane and unnecessary number of gun deaths in this country.
And you know it.
And yes, it's nothing more than a hobby.
DonP
(6,185 posts)... unless of course you walk everywhere.
Not to mention you being responsible for drunk drivers if you own a car too.
Hey, it's your stupid "logic" not mine.
I guess that makes you as big a hypocrite as the rest of us.
Oh, I knew you'd be interested.
I approved 7 more concealed carriers tonight for permits. 5 of them were women. Hey, maybe they'll sit next to you at Brunch on Sunday?
Squinch
(50,916 posts)Very telling.
DonP
(6,185 posts)But congratulations, for all your Sturm und Drang you have accomplished ... well, nothing.
Haven't changed one person's mind, haven't done anything to spur them to rethink their POV.
Plus, you have proven yourself immune to any form of fact or logic and frankly, not worth bothering about since you are just another typical online warrior for gun control.
Got another concealed carry class starting this week, 8 more people added to the 14 million plus out there already carrying concealed.
I'll have a good week, do the same.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...we might actually take them seriously instead of treating them as the overheated
screeds they are.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)insane and unnecessary amount of gun deaths in the US...
...as yours does.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Individuals making bad choices are what are responsible for gun deaths.
Say that to yourself as many times as it takes to sink in, because it is factually true.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)supports the gun industry, are there such an insane and unnecessary number of gun deaths.
That's your hobby at work!
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Last edited Tue May 10, 2016, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)
Were just sentenced to many years in prison for killing and dismembering 2 individuals. Used machetes. Gun industry's fault? Machete industry's? Or are criminals at fault?
beevul
(12,194 posts)Take away the bad choices which result in gun deaths, made by far less than 1 percent of gun owners, and gun deaths would be reduced to zero no matter how many guns are around.
This line of argument is done, and you lost.
Now reply with something irrelevant. Preferably out of the anti-gun talking point manual, or maybe with some more failed attempts at emotional manipulation, mocking, and shaming, wont you?
Squinch
(50,916 posts)gun deaths."
Here's the truth: If you and others like you didn't pour money into the gun lobbies and the gun industry, there would be fewer gun deaths.
Your hobby funds and enables and supports the manufacturers and lobbies who ensure that we have an insane and unnecessary number of gun deaths every year. You are their little soldiers. They couldn't exist without you.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Bad individual choices lead to every single gun death. Do you disagree? Do you think good choices lead to gun deaths? Do you think NO choices lead to gun deaths, like...they just happen on their own, at their own mysterious pace, free of human influence?
Come back to reality for fucks sake.
Its a meaningless truth. There is no connection nor any relation, between what I do and the bad decision of someone whom I am completely unconnected to, that leads to a gun death.
None. Zip. Zero. Nada.
You lot need to focus on the people making the bad decisions and leave the rest of us alone.
The only thing that ENSURES that there are gun deaths, is people willing to make the bad choice to commit them.
You've been quite silent about the people who make bad choices leading to a gun death, when it comes to placing blame. Oh, you guys make a big production of making memes with examples to rub in the noses of the people that didn't and aren't the ones making the bad decisions that lead to gun deaths, but I never actually SEE you guys blaming anyone other than the people that didn't do it. Say what you like, but those actions and lack there of, speak for themselves in a language that we all understand loud and clear.
The message is "I'm an anti-gun extremist, well outside the mainstream in America."
On edit: I do appreciate you fulfilling this request though:
If only the rest of the anti-gunners were as cooperative...
jmg257
(11,996 posts)But if you want/need a gun, then you need someone to manufacture it.
Don't see how we can avoid that in this country. Way too many people want/need guns.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Who's at fault for the machete murders here in Northern Virginia? The machete industry?
Straw Man
(6,622 posts)supports the gun industry, are there such an insane and unnecessary number of gun deaths.
Yes, the old tautology, as familiar as it is meaningless: Without guns, there can be no gun deaths.
But people make bad choices with all manner of things, like cars and alcohol, for example. And when they do, where does the fault lie? I say it lies with the people who enable, fund, and support the auto industry and the alcoholic beverage industry. Let's stop supporting them with our dollars. Shut the fuckers down! Are you with me?
Now tell me how my analogy doesn't work "Because gunz!" I expect no less.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)The firearms industry is no more responsible for those than Chicago Cutlery, Ginsu, and
Schrade are responsible for the deaths yesterday caused by a deranged person
going on a stabbing spree:
https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dwY24r9zHEQW0YMl0ad_Q7JZfphCM&q=taunton+stabbing+spree&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU1J-c3dLMAhUI2oMKHcqcBX8QqgIIKDAA
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,476 posts)A gun is the most often chosen weapon of murder.
Doesn't that mean anything?
Why or why not?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)BEND, Ore. -
A Bend woman was cited on assault and reckless endangering charges Thursday after a loaded .22-caliber Derringer pistol fell out of her pocket during a visit to McDonald’s and it fired, striking her husband in the abdomen police said. He remained hospitalized Friday, but had improved to fair condition.
http://www.ktvz.com/news/Bend-man-shot-by-wife-s-gun-improving/18459014
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)You mean him....?
stone space
(6,498 posts)He's lucky to be alive.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)....it's called humor.
I'm very happy to hear he will be OK.
djean111
(14,255 posts)When I see a gun in a grocery store or restaurant, I pay and leave. Immediately. Tell management why. And don't come back. So simple and easy. Hey, that leaves an open table or a space in the checkout line for another gun!
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)It was a joke based on the name of a town.
Lighten up.
If you live in an area in which you have a likelihood of 'seeing a gun' then maybe you should live in a place where seeing a gun is a rarity.
I grew up in New York City. Cops carried guns.
I live upstate NY. Only people who have passed an extensive background check carry guns.
I'm not talking about a 'phone call' federal background check.
I'm talking about a 'interview four of your neighbors and talk to your employers' background check. Fingerprints, references, interviews, registered handguns, damn near close to the investigation when a person becomes a police officer.
I live here.... because I like it that way. I would not live in a 'walk in and buy a gun' state.
You should consider doing the same.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Shooting someone, down here, is just another way to settle an argument.
Someone texting in a movie theater? Got shot and killed by a retired cop. Down here, at least, it seems to me that people who carry guns in public just really want to use them.
I will keep avoiding people with guns in public places whenever possible.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)..is so peaceful, it is unreal.
I am from New York City, I grew up in the '60s and '70s.
Up here, nothing ever happens in this place except college students pissing on lawns.
Oh crap, I just realized.... I don't need a gun.
(Just joking)
Human101948
(3,457 posts)SANDY, Utah (ABC 4 Utah) - A scary moment inside a Sandy restaurant when a man paying for his food drops a bag and a gun goes off.
It happened just before 1:30 Wednesday afternoon at the Chipotle near 104th South State Street.
Sandy Police say the man removed his backpack to pay for his meal and accidentally dropped it.
When the bag hit the floor, the handgun he had inside accidentally discharged.
http://www.good4utah.com/news/local-wasatch-front-/a-gun-is-accidentally-discharged-inside-a-chipotle-in-sandy-gun-owner-not-cited
CrispyQ
(36,424 posts)
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Ft Collins, CO –-(Ammoland.com)- Brazilian-made Taurus pistols have been with us for several decades, enjoying a spotty reputation.
Their striker-fired “PT” line has represented, for most consumers, a low-cost alternative to Glocks, XDs, M&Ps, SIG 320s, Kahrs, et al
Over the past few years, Taurus PT Pistols have been implicated in a number of “drop-safety” incidents, both in the USA and Brazil. Taurus has paid out several substantial settlements as a result.
However, the latest is a class-action matter in which Taurus has agreed to pay out a settlement of over thirty million dollars, plus agree to recall at least a half million pistols already in consumers’ hands.
Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2015/08/taurus-settlement-and-drop-safety-recall/#ixzz484TJUNAM
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Judy Price, a gun owner, said she knows all about them - how to handle them safely and she even speaks to people taking concealed carry classes.
Price says no amount of gun knowledge could have saved her from what happened in 2009.
Her concealed carry holster fell to the floor as she was undressing, then her Taurus pistol went off with a bullet going through her groin, through her stomach, and into her liver.
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3867539.shtml#.Vy9CC4QrLIU
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Who knew?
Human101948
(3,457 posts)JACKSON, Miss. — A 2-year-old girl was grazed by a bullet when her mother dropped her purse and a gun inside of it discharged while the two of them were in a hospital ER waiting room.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/04/mississippi_mom_drops_purse_gu.html
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Police say a man accidentally shot himself in the buttocks at a Nevada movie theater during a showing of “The Bourne Legacy.”
The moviegoer was at the Century 14 theater Tuesday night when a gunshot rang out.
After receiving several calls reporting seven to eight shots, police in Sparks, Nev., dispatched police units as well as fire and medical crews only to find out one shot was fired by accident.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/15/13296949-man-drops-gun-in-movie-theater-shooting-self-in-buttocks
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Actually it was really, really good special effects.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)An unnamed Tactical Response instructor reportedly had a negligent discharge on 18 February, 2016 at the Sacrememto Valley Shooting Center in California into a student’s truck.
The instructor was attempting to make a point by having all of the students throw their pistols to the ground. He then walked upon them telling the class that they were meant to get dirty and be used as tools. When he stepped on his own pistol, it fired and hit the truck. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
http://soldiersystems.net/2016/03/03/tactical-response-instructor-has-negligent-discharge-into-students-vehicle/
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)"throw their pistols to the ground."
No way. No f'ing way.
My revolver has a $500 molybdenum disulfide 1,000-hour-salt-spray-test coating.
No way.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)If you don't trust me enough to come in to a public place and share a meal with me unarmed, then I don't trust you, either.
CrispyQ
(36,424 posts)I heard they don't teach Civics anymore so I guess that's why so few understand the difference between the public space & private space. Drives me crazy!
And open carry and public carry both endanger others. There are many very irresponsible and anger driven gun owner in America today and the open carry advocates are some of the biggest ones. And guns don't make you safer period.
Good post.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)My series of articles on where firearms are "permitted in the public square." Especially part one, with the map, including amendments I made for several northeastern states.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172191778
I will be writing another article, this one taking this issue head on - long gun open carry and group open carry events. Look for it by the end of the week.
For those of you who consider this a very important issue, may I suggest that you choose your state of residence based at least partly on this topic. If you live in a state that allows (encourages, recognizes the right to, etc.) open carry, then the best thing in the long run is to go somewhere else.
New York only supports open carry of a rifle as part of hunting, and only several counties in New York (as far as I know, in the Catskills and Adirondacks only) will you see hand gun open carry - in the woods.
In New York, handgun owners undergo a BG check not much less intense than a police recruit applying to go on the job.
We have an incredibly low incidence of handgun misuse among licensed handgun owners, not to say other states have a higher rate, just vouching for my state.
safeinOhio
(32,641 posts)open carry. Until everyone can open carry, no one should.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)real description is, "disaffected white man-children gotta show everyone who they think is in charge."
krispos42
(49,445 posts)I simply think it's a bad idea in several ways.
On your property, out in the country, while hiking or camping, I'm okay with that.
But not in town. At least, absent a crisis of some significant size.
Carry concealed with legal protection for accidental displays of holstered handguns.
I mean, I personally don't care; I'm not going to get the vapors because some guy with a holstered pistol sits down near me to eat his burger.
But it irritates people, removes the element of surprise, and makes you a target.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Some guy walks into a restaurant with his wife and kids. He's carrying an AR-15 over his shoulder. His T-shirt says something like, "Screw with me and I'll kill you!" He has a rebel flag on his NRA hat. Yeah, that guy is perfectly normal.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)murdered by someone using an AR15
Your fear is unfounded
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I'm not afraid of someone with a gun. I am afraid of someone who i obviously nuts. If that person is carrying a firearm, I will avoid them.
Response to HassleCat (Reply #71)
Press Virginia This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to HassleCat (Reply #71)
Press Virginia This message was self-deleted by its author.
beevul
(12,194 posts)By people that hate guns, everyone else not so much.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Don't do that.
This sounds just like the other anti's who say that 2nd amendment supporters 'want rocket launchers and RPGs'
No. It's like me saying a 1st Amendment supporter wants to be locked in a library for a week with no food or water.
It derails the argument.
Most 2nd Amentment/RKBA/self defense advocates want the freedom to carry a concealable handgun peacefully without attracting any attention.
While not wearing a weird t-shirt.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)As a firearms owner, I don't like being associated with a bunch of weirdos simply because we have firearm ownership in common. I avoid NRA hats, T-shirts that say things such as, "You will take away my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers." And so on. I certainly would never carry weapons into restaurants, or anything like that, to prove I have a constitutional right to do so.
procon
(15,805 posts)Why would any normal adult feel the need to around in public displaying a gun? In the past, maybe he would be flashing himself in front of school girls or streaking naked through the food court. There's not enough shock value in putting on a ninja outfit and brandishing a sword, but a gun automatically triggers (pardon the pun) a wariness, or fear and terror response from the public.
What a head rush that must be. There are many reasons why a gun frightens people, so when someone deliberately uses guns to dominate and intimidate others, THAT is a power trip. Gun exhibitionists know exactly what they're are up to and it has nothing to do with their rights, but more about feeding their poor self esteem.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)How many deaths have resulted from an OC "rally"?
Why do you live in so much fear of a holstered gun?
procon
(15,805 posts)You think your argument is upheld because you look at the stats and see that for the few thousand people across the country who can't leave home without a gun, there isn't a corresponding trail of obituaries. That's like the climate deniers who say that carbon dioxide is a plant food and the more CO2 in the environment the better plants will grow.
It isn't necessary to actually shoot someone to create fear and terrorize a crowd of people. Given the ongoing headlines about mass murderers who target public places, just seeing some armed stranger with a gun is enough to create havoc and panic. You might picture yourself as Dudley Do Right or a comic book super hero, but to someone that sees your gun, you're a dangerous weirdo, an unpredictable threat to their safety because no normal person needs a gun to eat their burger and fries.
How would someone determine that you're not mentally unstable, or if you were there to kill your exwife or exboss, or rob the place, or maybe you would go ballistic if some rambunctious little kids annoyed you? That wouldn't be an issue if you decided to walk into public venues toting your drill motor or a caulking gun.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)I fear earthquakes. Having survived several bigguns without injury, I've still taken such prudent precautions as possible to safeguard me and mine.
I fear rattlesnakes. Even though I've never been bitten, live in their natural habitat and take reasonable steps to protect myself and stay alert when I'm outside around locales they frequent.
I fear drunk drivers. I don't need to have one of them actually crash into me to safeguard myself by calling 911 and avoiding driving anywhere near them.
What safety precautions are available to me when an armed stranger approaches me in a crowded store?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)for a robbery or mass shooting? The ones you claim live in fear?
procon
(15,805 posts)Is this your secret dream in life?
How is the public supposed to aware that all you self styled Dudley Do Rights' are properly trained to respond calmly and cooly under fire? Where do we find your recent live fire exercise results, or determine that your skill level warrants you to even engage in such an action without endangering innocent bystanders? Do you lot wear expert marksmanship badges, announce your gun safety records, or shout out, "Hey, I'm not a cop, but I wannabe!"
How does the terrified public distinguish one mass shooter from another, do the "good" gunmen wear white hats? Do I just assume that every armed guy in the mall is really Deadeye Dick the famous sharpshooter who saves the schoolmarm from the bad guy with a gun?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)of OC Advocates whose activities have never resulted in a single death.
If you can't distinguish the difference between and active shooter and a holstered pistol, that's your own fault.
procon
(15,805 posts)"active shooter" and a stranger with a holstered pistol who is about to become one?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)about to become vehicular mass murderers?
procon
(15,805 posts)How is the public supposed to distinguish between a good guy with a gun vs a bad guy with a gun?
One of your assertions has been to claim that anyone with a holstered gun is automatically presumed to be a good guy. Evidently this is insider knowledge that the general public, who remains leery and scared of strangers who bring guns to public venues, isn't aware of. If this is the simpleminded measurement for determining who is sane and responsible and might not start shooting up the movie theater, it does nothing to bolster your position.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)someone may become, not what they are.
You're no different than people worrying about men pretending to be women so they can rape little girls in the women's bathroom
procon
(15,805 posts)When you switch topics from guns to LGBT rights, it's time to stick a fork in it, you're done.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)who make a similar argument about bathroom laws
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...in subject.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)doesn't happen?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)They are essentially badge-engineered versions of each other, differing only in their
choice of boogeymen
As an aside, I rather doubt that the two groups overlap...
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)they support OC.
Those who fear the holstered pistols or slung rifles assign fear to to OC activists and practitioners motivations while actively admitting to their own fear of guns.
stone space
(6,498 posts)...in subject.
That's dehumanizing in the extreme.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Is your particular moral panic somehow more based in rationality than the transphobes?
BTW, you appear to have something of a truthiness problem:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172145212#post2
What if folks had found themselves locked in the freezer, and had not been able to get out?
Do the gun fetishists care about anybody other than themselves?
www.democraticunderground.com/1172145212#post28
have been standard on walk in freezer doors for decades.
http://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/the-gun-report-may-9-2014/?_r=1
beevul
(12,194 posts)What you're doing here is as blatant and obvious as a can of white paint on a blackboard.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)And nuts with automobiles crash and run over people and kill them.
And nuts with.......need I go on?
If you fear being around people then get some help.
procon
(15,805 posts)That the crucial point that can't be overlooked.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)Are they considered a deterrent, or do they prevent anyone from drawing that gun, or firing it?
Seriously, this is the most bizarre defense I've ever seen. Just stop before you hurt yourself even worse.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)Which brings us back to the beginning. How does anyone know that a person with a gun is trustworthy and above suspicious vs. a deranged madman planning on ending his miserable existence in a blaze of glory?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)Has this changed?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)there are no examples of OC activists actually becoming active shooters?
beevul
(12,194 posts)We don't.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Try over ten million.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... he needs to carry the gun in the first place?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Or, is he "concerned" that some nut with a gun or other weapon might snap?
He goes into the world "concerned" that he's going to need a gun to defend himself, at any moment.
Me ... I see some one who I don't know with a gun, and I become "concerned" that he might snap at any moment.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)or perhaps he's someone with a job that requires him to be armed or maybe he just wears it because he can.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Last edited Sun May 8, 2016, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1)
My wife loves hiking,
We encountered about four or five groups of hikers in about as many hours.
No one noticed I was carrying.
Many were not from the area. For some reason, we happen to look like we are from the area.
Several people inquired about the unusual size and preponderance of coyote scat on the trails.
I had noticed the same thing. Coyotes in the northeast are getting much larger.
Not that I give a s--t about coyotes. They are still harmless.
What seems like a forest full of animals is usually several families of four or five coyotes, many are juvenile.
I was asked if I was afraid of being in the woods. They seemed to be afraid.
I said no, I am not afraid to be in the woods.
'Oh, good' they responded, and went on their way.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... or a church.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Long Gun Open Carry
I will address that topic.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Wow, I remember suburbia. I used to live there.
There is a mindset of some who carry handguns for self defense to 'always be armed.'
Some only carry when the situation is somewhat more appropriate, such as on a rural road trip or hiking/camping trip.
I have no problem with either of the above, but I tend to be in the second category.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)All three of those restaurants are pretty common. And then you forget church.
In any case, if you carry a gun into any of those locations ... yes, I will assume that you need to "always be armed".
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Worked in the same neighborhood for 20+ years.
Only people who carried were cops and bad guys.
In retirement, I promised myself I would never live in such a place again.
sarisataka
(18,497 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts) ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)And screw any business that allows them, except for law enforcement. If I see Joe six pack packing I leave wherever that is.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)That's happened.
A few years ago I went to a 4h horse show and one of the dad's was carrying a gun. Why? Of course some will say why not but unless he was there in case a horse broke a leg, what was the point.
Squinch
(50,916 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'd figure I was in the wrong place. And leave.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)I usually leave mine at home, but whatever.
My hobby (gardening) contains no elements that could be instantly lethal to innocent bystanders.
If your hobby does contain such elements, then you need to limit your hobbying to safe and controlled places.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Straw Man
(6,622 posts)I feel enlightened.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)That calls into question the intent of running out on a dinner check.
stone space
(6,498 posts)The OP is weird.
I don't understand the connection that you are making between running away from deadly weapons in public spaces and folks commenting on internet sites like DU.
What's the connection?
It's just weird.
Should folks who run for their lives when confronted with deadly weapons refrain from commenting on DU?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)You keep making connections between commenting on DU and having an ammosexual bring his AR-15 out on a dinner date.
What exactly do you see as the connection?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)When you decide to show enough maturity to honestly deal with a subject I will address your comments.
stone space
(6,498 posts)You seem to be suggesting in the OP that merely posting on DU is as scary as running into an ammosexual on a dinner date with his AR-15 in a restaurant on real life.
So it's about making personal insults?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)...the relative safety of dining with ammosexuals out on a dinner date with their AR-15s, when compared with posting on DU.
Weird juxtaposition of beliefs.
Do you seriously feel that posting on DU is as dangerous as dining with ammosexuals out on dates with their AR-15s?
If it is THAT dangerous, then why are you even posting here?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)A little more maturity.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)That's an explicit statement that your suggested interpretation of my OP is inaccurate and that I doubt the sincerity of your assertion.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...which is where the problem lies
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)That is why you can never have a civil conversation. Somebody who has admitted many times he would skip out on services rendered and has a thing with homophobic insults to DU members.
stone space
(6,498 posts) Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Some kind of issue and use dog whistle made up phrases. I really do feel sorry for you, I am surprised you can even go outside, having such irrational fears.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)There is little to fear in antagonizing someone remotely, even someone that they would otherwise "run for their life" from if fate placed them together in the real world, even under innocuous circumstances such as eating a meal.
So there is no reason to doubt their claims about being so afraid, about their need to run. Isn't it easy to picture them scrambling out the door? And just MAYBE to even to begin to understand SOME rationality in their flight?
It is the gun that does it - the mere presence, the notion, of such a deadly weapon - how it changes everything for them. There is no justification anyone could give, no sane or good reason exists to explain why people would have/want/need them.
See SOME rationality in their opinions?
Scorn and bigotry, actions and phobia, fueled by fear.
"No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear."
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Calmly waiting for our food to be delivered. I am armed with a A 70 in 9mm and Loving Wife has her favorite 45 on her side.
Neither firearm is visable, both have full mags and one in in the pipe.
Just enjoying a simple meal.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)And conversing with the young couple at the next table. No problems, nobody has run out screaming in terror. No gunfire, nothing. ,
It seems that certain posters have VERY active imaginations.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)So:
Floober-doober-boober-oober.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)position to hold.
Congratulations, you have, in one post, totally stated the anti-gun ownership position.
