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Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:44 PM

Why millions of Americans — including me — own the AR-15

The AR-15 is less a model of rifle than it is an open-source, modular weapons platform that can be customized for a whole range of applications, from varmint control to taking out 500-pound feral hogs to urban combat. Everything about an individual AR-15 can be changed with aftermarket parts — the caliber of ammunition, recoil, range, weight, length, hold and grip, and on and on.


http://www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11975850/ar-15-owner-orlando

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Reply Why millions of Americans — including me — own the AR-15 (Original post)
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 OP
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #1
leveymg Jun 2016 #2
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #5
leveymg Jun 2016 #8
hack89 Jun 2016 #6
leveymg Jun 2016 #11
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #13
hack89 Jun 2016 #14
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #32
hack89 Jun 2016 #54
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #105
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #106
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #108
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #109
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #119
hack89 Jun 2016 #107
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #111
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #115
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #118
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #123
DonP Jun 2016 #124
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #125
Human101948 Jun 2016 #126
DonP Jun 2016 #128
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #130
DonP Jun 2016 #131
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #136
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #137
lewebley3 Jul 2016 #152
hack89 Jul 2016 #156
Name removed Jun 2016 #21
leveymg Jun 2016 #24
Post removed Jun 2016 #27
leveymg Jun 2016 #30
Post removed Jun 2016 #34
gejohnston Jun 2016 #35
leveymg Jun 2016 #56
gejohnston Jun 2016 #59
leveymg Jun 2016 #82
gejohnston Jun 2016 #86
leveymg Jun 2016 #101
gejohnston Jun 2016 #102
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #112
pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #139
Jerry442 Jun 2016 #52
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #110
krispos42 Jun 2016 #129
lewebley3 Jul 2016 #151
friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #154
lewebley3 Jul 2016 #158
Puha Ekapi Jul 2016 #159
pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #161
friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #162
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #163
beevul Jul 2016 #164
lewebley3 Jul 2016 #166
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #167
NaturalHigh Jul 2016 #173
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #3
The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #4
hack89 Jun 2016 #7
leveymg Jun 2016 #9
The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #17
hack89 Jun 2016 #19
The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #37
hack89 Jun 2016 #55
virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #18
rickford66 Jun 2016 #77
flamin lib Jun 2016 #103
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #104
Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #149
Zen Democrat Jun 2016 #10
Straw Man Jun 2016 #15
beevul Jun 2016 #61
oneshooter Jun 2016 #16
virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #20
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #26
virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #23
RME_SFC Jun 2016 #140
Name removed Jun 2016 #25
gejohnston Jun 2016 #31
Name removed Jun 2016 #38
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #39
Waldorf Jun 2016 #71
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #113
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #12
virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #22
guillaumeb Jun 2016 #28
gejohnston Jun 2016 #33
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #40
guillaumeb Jun 2016 #47
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #44
guillaumeb Jun 2016 #48
chknltl Jun 2016 #80
gejohnston Jun 2016 #87
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #114
guillaumeb Jun 2016 #120
Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #150
DemFromPittsburgh Jun 2016 #29
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #41
DemFromPittsburgh Jun 2016 #42
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #116
Matt_R Jun 2016 #132
shireen Jun 2016 #36
doc03 Jun 2016 #43
DonP Jun 2016 #45
guillaumeb Jun 2016 #49
ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #64
doc03 Jun 2016 #69
ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #70
doc03 Jun 2016 #72
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #81
doc03 Jun 2016 #91
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #94
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #153
Just reading posts Jul 2016 #155
pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #160
tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #99
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #122
oneshooter Jun 2016 #127
Matt_R Jun 2016 #134
tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #135
ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #90
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #95
Matt_R Jun 2016 #133
MFM008 Jun 2016 #46
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #51
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #67
RME_SFC Jun 2016 #141
tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #143
RME_SFC Jun 2016 #144
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #53
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #60
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #68
Hangingon Jun 2016 #62
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #63
oneshooter Jun 2016 #75
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #84
Hangingon Jun 2016 #93
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #96
oneshooter Jun 2016 #100
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #57
lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #58
beevul Jun 2016 #65
Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #76
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #78
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #83
matt819 Jun 2016 #50
Straw Man Jun 2016 #66
matt819 Jun 2016 #74
Straw Man Jun 2016 #97
RME_SFC Jun 2016 #142
beergood Jun 2016 #73
Buzz cook Jun 2016 #79
ileus Jun 2016 #88
MisterP Jun 2016 #85
ileus Jun 2016 #89
ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #92
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #117
beergood Jun 2016 #145
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #146
beergood Jun 2016 #147
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #148
beergood Jul 2016 #157
tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #98
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #121
pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #138
Post removed Jul 2016 #165
bolus Jul 2016 #168
pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #169
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #170
pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #171
pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #172

Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:48 PM

1. Exactly

 

That is very true

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:52 PM

2. In other words, a handy-dandy modular mass slaughter machine.

The next best thing to sarin gas or a battlefield nuclear device to have in the closet when the Zombie Apocalypse* comes.

* Dog whistle for class war, race war, civil war, social collapse, whatever you want.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:18 PM

5. You obviously...

...didn't actually read the article.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:27 PM

8. I actually did. The primary argument in favor is that it's a convenient, easy to use killing machine

It's even portrayed as a more humane, sure-kill way to hunt large mammals. Just an updated Henry Rifle.

Doesn't change the character of the thing one bit.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:21 PM

6. I have four and have never killed a living thing.

so it is obvious there are other uses besides mass slaughter. Not black and white enough for you, I suspect.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:35 PM

11. I have some old NRA patches from Boy Scout camp, myself.

I admit that target shooting can be fun, along with plinking, and what have you. To each his own.

I'm sure you'll get to keep the ones you already own.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:36 PM

13. I'm sure...

...I'll be able to legally buy another in the future as well.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:38 PM

14. No one in Congress is dumb enough to actually confiscate guns

no proposed AWB will be retroactive.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:16 PM

32. So you must only use it for target shooting. In that case you could leave it locked at a range and

no one or thing would have to worry about you losing it someday and killing many many living things.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:59 PM

54. Because we know that guns ranges are so secure

And besides, hundreds of valuable rifles on one location would never tempt a thief.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:47 AM

105. So all gun stores are safe. Gees, bad argument. At least their would be certified responsibility.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #105)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:55 AM

106. And anyone shot would be...

...less injured or less dead due to that responsibility.
There's crime prevention and control at its best.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #106)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:52 AM

108. Where does it stop. When does the safety of the child on the street count on everyone having an AK?

If someone has to use a grenade or a flame thrower, should they insist on carrying that around anywhere?

What are the requirements and well regulated sensible safety rules to control them. I'm not talking one gun to protect yourself or hunting rifles. I'm talking weapons that would be difficult if not impossible to stop even by police. Let's get serious and hold back on gunslingers and anyone so thrilled by death or their own importance that they wish to start wars and let's step into the way of arms dealers profits.

Please, let our kids be as safe as possible, under the "right to blow holes in everything around you if you have the whim" amendment.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #108)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:20 PM

109. The firearms that I own...

...are not a danger to any innocent person. Forcing me to give them up will not increase public safety in the least.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #108)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:40 PM

119. Just a few points here

I'm not suggesting that everyone's safety depends on a weapon. I quote #27 from the (unofficial) USMC Rules for Gun Fighting: "Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

Having said those things, banning and onerous regulations will only encourage further crime in a country where privately owned guns are as common as privately owned cars.

AKs (full-auto weapons), explosives and flame throwers (and numerous other weapons) are already only legal for private citizens after a long investigation and approval process by the ATF. The last crime involving a full-auto was the North Hollywood shootout at Bank of America in 1997. An AR-15 is no more lethal than any other semi-auto of the same caliber.

Hold back on gunslingers/thrilled by death folks by all means. Determine who those folks are according to due process in the courts not by what color they like their rifle.

What do you mean by "step into the way of arms dealers profits"?

Re: "...right to blow holes in everything..." amendment; there isn't one. Hyperbole I infer.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #105)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:56 AM

107. They pay a lot for security and insurance

The typical gun club can't afford it. Now if the government is willing to heavily subsidize such measures with tax payer money I might consider it.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #105)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:34 PM

111. At least as safe as military armories. Heh. But you knew that.

 

The Ashley Gang (motor bandits who operated THE vertically integrated distilling/distributing system for South Florida in the 1920s) obtained their FULL-AUTO weapons from military armories. They preferred the BAR, not that Thompson stuff.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #111)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:25 PM

115. If you have to go back to the 1920's, it seems quite safe. Where can we begin? Things have to

settle down. I don't want to be shot. Do you?

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #115)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:58 PM

118. Do I want to be shot? No. And I don't fear that.

 

I keep my arms locked in a safe, ammunition is locked separately.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #118)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:28 PM

123. I was talking about the plural "you". The threat is not with you but those who are the prey of too

many guns from those who insist that there should be a gun in every hand.

There must be limits. You (singularly) can agree on that.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #123)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:57 PM

124. Pehaps you can point to someone actually saying; "there should be a gun in every hand"?

 

The only place I ever usually hear that kind of verbal stupidity is the gun control people desperately trying to pretend some gun owner actually said that.

Like the; "Guns everywhere for everybody with no laws" meme they love so very much.

Hey, speaking of laws, we were promised a bloodbath in Georgia, if they passed the "Guns Everywhere" laws! Whatever happened to that law?

Has Georgia descended into the Mad Max post apocalyptic existence we were warned of, or can I still make plane connections at Hartsfield-Jackson next week?

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Response to DonP (Reply #124)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:01 PM

125. Is it enforced? I thought it was archaic and ignored as senseless.

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Response to DonP (Reply #124)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:46 PM

126. The NRA...

 

At the National Rifle Association's first press conference since the Newtown massacre that killed 27 people, most of them elementary school children, the gun lobby's CEO Wayne LaPierre said the solution is more guns...

While encouraging Americans to buy more guns—which would enrich the companies that fund the NRA—and station gun-toting guards at all schools, LaPierre declined to support any compromise on gun restrictions. And he engaged in a brazen act of hypocrisy. He warned of a society "populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters—people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them."

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12/nra-chief-calls-more-guns-everywhere

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #126)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:09 PM

128. Oh, you mean those "stupid" armed guards in every Chicago high school ...

 

... and the stupid armed guards in every high end private school in DC where the legislators kids go? Yeah armed guards are stupid.

Yeah that's so stupid the legislators on both sides of the aisle insist on it for all their kids, but yours are on their own with a "Gun Free Zone" sign and a maybe a new front door lock.

Your problem is LaPierre keeps winning on these issues for the past 22 years, while gun control just whines online about how unfair it all is.

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Response to DonP (Reply #128)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:07 AM

130. Well, to be fair...

...legislators in Hawaii are demanding gun owners be registered.












Yay, team.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #130)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:21 AM

131. Yeah, that "big win" will be in court in a New York Minute

 

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Response to DonP (Reply #124)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:02 AM

136. Your biggest problem at ATL is...

...if you fly Delta or change carriers, you may have a bit of a walk combined with train ride between flights. Going anywhere good?

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #123)

Mon Jun 27, 2016, 10:16 AM

137. There are good limits in place. I support UBCs to extend the current prohibitions

 

of criminals and adjudicated mental incompetents having guns.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 02:07 PM

152. Your hobby has killed many people

 

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #152)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 04:11 PM

156. You talking about my bourbon collection? nt

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)


Response to Name removed (Reply #21)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:48 PM

24. Not too many blunt objects have been used for mass murders.

You guys have gotta try harder. It's that logic thing. I know it's tough, but . . .

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Response to leveymg (Reply #24)


Response to Post removed (Reply #27)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:10 PM

30. You said, "About a rifle that is used in fewer killings than blunt objects, by the way -- such good

slaughter machines that other things are used much more often than they are... Now that's scary!"

That implies that AR-15s are less effective than clubs, if one simply totes up the total number of people killed by each. That's not the only way a reasonable person looks at the subject. Sorry, but your argument really isn't logical (or persuasive) if you don't also consider the lethality of each weapon in an individual's hands.

But, hey, when did logic and proportion ever mean anything to the NRA?! It's more about campaign cash and true believers, isn't it?

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Response to leveymg (Reply #30)


Response to leveymg (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:19 PM

35. doesn't imply anything

simply pointing out an FBI statistic.
Reasonable has an objective standard, yours isn't.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #35)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:13 PM

56. Logical and persuasive are more than simply reasonable.

The other poster wasn't being any of the above, but was trying to divert the point I originally made that semi-automatics such as the AR-15 have been more lethal, in terms of victims killed per attack, than any other type of firearm used in mass killings.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #56)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:52 PM

59. except that you are assuming,

based only on media accounts in the US. You don't know that to be a fact.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #59)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:36 PM

82. Except, that I am correct.

It is the here and now that count, not the heaps of bodies living dead and heartless at the base of Mayan temples six hundred years ago killed with glass daggers.

Something must be done about the here and now, for it is all we can do.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #82)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:43 PM

86. your logical fallacy is

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #86)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 08:17 AM

101. According to you, I am a liar. That's not an argument, it's attack.

Perhaps you believe that those who don't follow the NRA propaganda line are all liars? How am I lying? Is that all you can say?

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Response to leveymg (Reply #101)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:12 AM

102. no, and you don't know what the word liar means

a lie is intentionally telling an untruth. You believe it to be true, therefore you are not a liar. All I said that there is no empirical evidence to support that. What I did say was that you were making a fallacious argument.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #101)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:39 PM

112. Gosh, leveymg, you seem to have a hair-trigger. "Attack?" Hardly. OKC.

 

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #112)

Mon Jun 27, 2016, 11:58 PM

139. Better keep this person away from a gun! ;-) NT

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Response to Name removed (Reply #21)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:51 PM

52. That argument is so compelling...

...I'm surprised you guys don't have a rapid-reaction team to fly to the location of each mass shooting and console the friends and loved ones of the dead by pointing out to them that the deaths were statistically insignificant.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:26 PM

110. As is fertilizer and diesel fuel.

 

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:39 PM

129. Just like nearly every other gun in the country.

Let's face it... Nearly every gun in this country, in the hands of a relentless killer who picks a nice soft target, is capable of getting off dozens of shots before armed police can intervene. Revolver, lever-action gun, double barreled shotgun... Given a five-minute police response time and competent gun handling skills, dozens of shots can be fired before the first police cars screech to a halt.

Your issue seems to be that the amount of built-in customization and personal ergonomic adjustment somehow makes an AR-15 just that much faster as to be unacceptably deadly.

That an AR-15 is acceptably deadly as long as it doesn't have an ergonomic pistol grip, but that slightly superior grip and the modest increase is handling put it over some arbitrary edge.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 02:06 PM

151. People are are dying to for this guys hobby: he should be ashamed of himself

 

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #151)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 03:09 PM

154. Au contraire, those who call a civil right a hobby should be ashamed of themselves...

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #154)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:18 PM

158. The country has a right to regulate guns: that's the countries civil rights according

 

to the Scourt.

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #158)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:24 PM

159. firearms ownership..

..is an individual RIGHT, according to SCOTUS and President Obama.

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #158)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:11 PM

161. Even if we could cut the number of guns in the nation in HALF........


.........there would still be many times more than needed to supply the criminal element with the guns they utilize, given the very small percentage of guns that are used in crime.

This is why "gun control" is so absolutely ridiculous on it's face --- beside the fact that you can't "control" what's in high demand.

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #158)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:11 PM

162. Countries do not have rights, they have powers. People have rights...

...and keeping and bearing arms is one of them in the US, unless and until the Second Amendment
is repealed.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #162)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:51 PM

163. Emphasis mine:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."


However, and IMNSHO, the RKBA is a human right, everywhere. Government permission is not required. It is as natural and innate as a right to life. Whatever tools one chooses as a means of self-defense are covered in that right. Anyone or any group or government that chooses to pretend otherwise is free to be wrong. Rights don't disappear because a person, group or government fails to respect them.

Just a pet peeve.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #162)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:01 PM

164. Obviously the framers were talking about 'the people' then...

 

Obviously the framers were talking about 'the people' then, as a nongovernmental body, when they said 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms'.

This is yet another way that the 'militia' reading of the second amendment is destroyed.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #162)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:17 PM

166. The people are the goverment: they are not seperate from the goverment

 

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #166)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:18 PM

167. "...of the people, by the people, for the people..."

Indeed they are separate from the government. The people are guaranteed their rights by law. Those laws were written to protect the rights of the individuals from abuses by the government. The rights of any minority may be systematically abused by the majority in the form of laws contrary to those rights. For this reason laws passed by the legislature are subject to judicial review.

The language of the Declaration of Independence: "...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." clearly announces governments as being man made creations. Governments do not have rights.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 25, 2016, 12:56 PM

173. That's one of the stupidest things I've read in this thread...

and that's saying something.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:57 PM

3. I see your point

Elmer Fudd might have been able to actually kill Daffy if he hadn't been limited to a plain old shotgun.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:07 PM

4. Great use of modern marketing jargon

To describe a nasty gun that has killed countless human beings.

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:23 PM

7. Do you know what has killed many more?

bolt action .30 caliber rifles (ie "hunting" rifles).

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Response to hack89 (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:31 PM

9. Give it some more time.

The body count with Enfields, Mausers and Springfield Arms took two world wars. Just wait and see what the next one brings.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:01 PM

17. So what ?

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:09 PM

19. Is it safe to assume you regard all guns as "nasty"? nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:21 PM

37. Look I'm not going to waste any more time with you

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #37)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:00 PM

55. I fine with that. nt

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:07 PM

18. That comment shows how little you know...

I know for a fact, as a military historian that the mauser rifle, and its many derivatives has killed many MANY times more human beings...

I even have one.. {not mine}



And no proposed legislation even mentions them.. And it is a REAL, GENUINE, fully functional "weapon of war". unlike what our current crop of leaders think.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:57 PM

77. More people killed by rocks ...

over the last 100,000 years.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:00 AM

103. Uh, how many people would have died in Orlando if the shooter used one of those? nt

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #103)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:47 AM

104. Getting heavy are they?

Those goal posts??

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Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 01:50 PM

149. Actually, the government keeps count: Fewer than 300 deaths from ALL rifles...

 

And since the semi-auto carbine is within that number, the totals are even less.

Semi-autos are NOT the battle rifle in any armed force in the world, FULL AUTOS are. So, again the numbers are not "countless." Now, in the past large numbers of soldiers were killed with the semi-auto Garand, and the semi-auto M1 carbine, but those models are considered obsolete (the latter shooting low-power rounds). And neither have the characteristics of nor the all-important "looks" of the AR and AK -- or the Sig Sauer used in Orlando.

The only way to "Ban" the AR and AK families of carbines is to engulf ALL semi-auto rifles and pistols -- the most popular type of arms in the U.S. Good luck with that.

You might note that even MSM is carrying articles and OPs which are calling for gun control advocates to drop he whole ban approach, especially as it pertains to semi-auto carbines. They don't think there is any future in that.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:35 PM

10. My ex killed feral hogs and javalinas with a regular old 30-06.

Nobody needs an AR-15 or similar weapon in civilian life. They are designed to be people killers. They were made for military use. To have them on American streets is insane.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:56 PM

15. A regular old .30-06?

Like this?



The round it fires is larger and more destructive than the 5.56/.223 of the AR. It only holds eight rounds, but can be reloaded with stripper clips as quickly as magazines can be changed on an AR.



I don't know what you and others mean by "on American streets." I have never seen anyone carrying on AR on the street. They are in people's homes, on shooting ranges, and in the hunting field. I have seen video of open-carry activist yahoos parading around with them to get attention, but that's rare.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:23 PM

61. "On American streets" is anti-gun speak for "in private hands".

 

"On American streets" is anti-gun speak for "in private hands". When they say "guns off the streets", its just code for "out of private possession".

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:58 PM

16. Your 30-06 was designed to kill humans

And has been doing so since 1906. More people have been killed by a 30-06 than any 223.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:18 PM

20. Like the British Lee Enfield

Behold the mad minute... During World War 1, British troops using their Lee Enfield bolt action rifles, convinced the Germans that they were facing machine guns. And firing a far more powerful, and effective round than the AR-15



O, and if you want too see someone do over 20 AIMED rounds in a minute, with multiple reloads, and even a minor jam...

But according to our current crop of leaders, that is NOT a weapon of war. Many MANY Germans, and Japanese would beg to differ..

No current proposed legislation would effect these at all...

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:58 PM

26. But but...

...they aren't black and scary, and therefore useless in the modern era!

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:26 PM

23. ROFLMAO!!!

They were made for military use. To have them on American streets is insane.


The .30-06 Springfield cartridge (pronounced "thirty-aught-six" or "thirty-oh-six", 7.62×63mm in metric notation and called ".30 Gov't '06" by Winchester, was introduced to the United States Army in 1906 and later standardized; it remained in use until the early 1980s.


From what I understand, that round made quite an impression on lots of Germans, Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese..

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:54 PM

140. You STOP THAT!

 

How dare you insert facts and logic into an emotional argument!

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)


Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:15 PM

31. Isn't a .30-06 for hogs over kill?

Your ex probably used basically the same rifle used in both world wars. As for the .30-06 not being designed as a "people killer", as others have mentioned, a lot of Japanese, German, North Korean, and Chinese soldiers would disagree with that. BTW, so would some Kent State students. The biggest obsticle to a dialog between the two sides is that one side doesn't know what it is talking about.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #31)


Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:23 PM

39. Are you under the impression that the .30-06 is not a "people killer" designed for military use?

 

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:56 PM

71. They are designed to send a projectile down the barrel with great speed and accuracy.

It is up to the person who decides how to use the firearm. Since there are so many of them and used in so few crimes, it appears they are being used legally.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

I live in Texas, with lots of hog problems, and an AR 15 type firearm is the preferred choice.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:50 PM

113. In case you haven't figured it out, the rifle in #15 is semi-auto, like the ARs.

 

Remington has for decades made a deer rifle which is semi-auto, and before that, the Model 8 (1906) which fired .35 rounds. It's limited magazine was replaced with an early after-market "banana" magazine so it could fire more rounds. Clyde Barrow met his end via a Model 8, though the arm was designed and built for hunting.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:35 PM

12. Excellent article, and worth a cross post in GD.

 

Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:23 PM

22. And we will continue to own them..

And procure more of them...

Even if we must print them out..



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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:03 PM

28. How many US citizens have a daily or even occasional need

to kill feral hogs or engage in urban combat?

This is nothing but gun porn to feed the fantasies of anxious white males and convince them that as long as they are carrying a weapon "all is right with the world". (With thanks to Robert Browning)

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:16 PM

33. This is nothing but gun porn to feed the fantasies of anxious white males

That's racist.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:35 PM

40. Indeed so, very sad

 

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:14 PM

47. So I am thus a self-hating white male?

At least I now know.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:03 PM

44. What about...

...people of color such as myself who own these rifles? Are we "anxious white males" too?

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #44)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:18 PM

48. Please delete the words "white males"

and substitute the appropriate label.

The Second Amendment was written for an agrarian society with no established police force and a society for which the Founders did not provide an established, standing army. Hence the need for a "well regulated militia being necessary for the security...".

If this country eliminates its massive standing army and all police forces I will concede that an armed citizenry might fill a need.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #48)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:31 PM

80. Perhaps not so fast

I heard a historian interviewed by Thom Hartmann make the case that the 'well regulated militia'(s) refered to in the 2nd amendment were actually slave patrols. That would indeed make them mostly, if not specifically white males.

The historian's basic premise: 'Prior to the ratification of the Constitution there were two reasons the Southern slave states wanted the inclusion of the 2nd amendment.

The first was they wanted to continue on with their slave militias. Slaves were critical to their economy but periodically they revolted, sometimes individually but sometimes they did so on a much larger scale. For this reason there were both local and state run militias used to keep the slaves in check.

The second reason stemmed from the ongoing disagreement between the slave states and the non-slave states. According to the historian the way the 2nd amendment was deliberately worded, it could legally be interpreted to mean that the 'rights of the states to operate slave militias could not be infringed'. By doing this, the slave states now in essence had a written Constitutional guarantee to continue on with slave militias, which, according to the historian, enhanced their willingness to ratify the Constitution.'

I am not sure I have the interview fully accurate but i think it is close enough. If memory serves, the historian's name was Bogus, (yeah i know...), it was a most fascinating interview imho. He was discussing his book on that topic if you care to research the name.




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Response to chknltl (Reply #80)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:55 PM

87. Carl T Bogus,

he isn't a historian, he is a law professor that worked for some gun prohibition think tank funded by the Joyce Foundation.
He wrote an article for a law review making that claim, but he never provided the evidence, since it was "the hidden history".
There is no evidence to support his claim, and slave patrols were State functionaries and not part of a militia.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1465114

BTW, law reviews are not peer reviewed.

Since his nonsense was ignored by historians, the only sites that cared to mention it were people like David Kopel, and this guy.
Since The Root seems left of center, I chose it.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2013/01/second_amendment_slave_control_not_the_aim/

Bogus, being one of the few believers in collective rights theory, relied on a book written by Herbert Aptheker in the late forties. Historians didn't take it seriously then, and even less so after research showed we had fewer slave revolts than other slave societies in the Western Hemisphere. The few that were not just in the South.

I used to like Hartman until he started sounding like an anti Mormon bigot with his "Romney is part of an LDS conspiracy to make the country a theocracy", that and his dishonesty on a few other issue. I found it hypocritical that he would attack my religious heritage, but any criticism of some religions is off limits. I frankly don't think he is as scholarly as he tries to portray himself.

BTW, saying that something is bad because it is more common among whites is just as racist and saying the same about any other race. White guilt and virtue signaling is no excuse.

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Response to chknltl (Reply #80)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:05 PM

114. The former slave states enacted all manner of Jim Crow laws to disarm blacks, post Civil War...

 

If the Second was there only for "slave patrols," it was a badly framed amendment which required some patching up. In fact, the all-important 14th Amendment was essentially passed to keep the states from infringing on former slaves' RKBA, and all the other rights. It took until the 1950s before the courts recognized this, heralding the end of de jure segregation, and the beginning of the Civil Rights Era.

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Response to chknltl (Reply #80)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:46 PM

120. And to add to that:

The first police force was established in South Carolina specifically as a slave control group. All white males of property were required to be armed and were considered members of the slave patrol.

On a related matter, I am currently reading a book by Garry Wills, a Pulitzer prize winning author, titled: Negro President...Jefferson and the Slave Power. A fascinating book about how the slavery question influenced both the writing of the Constitution and other matters.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #120)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 01:57 PM

150. Michael Bellisiles won the Bancroft Prize for history.

 

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)


Response to DemFromPittsburgh (Reply #29)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:36 PM

41. Wow that took a while

 

The childish sexual reference, so original

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:40 PM

42. You're welcome.

 

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Response to DemFromPittsburgh (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:27 PM

116. EDP. Sounds like a rap group. Maybe punk rock.

 

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Response to DemFromPittsburgh (Reply #29)


Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:19 PM

36. Thank you

That was a very informative article. Bookmarked for reference.

How were the guns used in mass shootings configured? Could those same configurations be used for practical purposes like taking down hogs? Is it possible to ban certain configurations that are optimized for inflicting mass casualties?

This is a very difficult painful topic. On one hand, I respect the right of gun ownership. But when's a gun too much gun?



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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:42 PM

43. Urban Combat give me a f---g break. You mean when those people invade your suburbs

you can kill them, I understand. Oh you said Urban Combat, must mean in case those urban people get rowdy we can
go in and clear the area. We have the right to protect our own property, I understand. But in what case would the average civilian engage in Urban Combat, what a preemptive strike?

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Response to doc03 (Reply #43)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:06 PM

45. The select fire Military version was designed for urban combat and CQB use.

 

The semi-auto is just that, semi-auto, one trigger pull, one shot. No military in the world uses a semi auto firearm as it's main battle rifle.

A lot of people hunting feral hogs (Now an ecological and farming problem all the way north to Michigan and Illinois) use semi autos.

Killing one or two of a herd of them doesn't stop the predation and ruined acreage.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #43)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:21 PM

49. And when the term "urban combat" is used,

is there a particular color that one can assume?

This feeds into the "Nat Turner" fantasy also popular among some very few of the gun crowd. The same types that dress up as Southern soldiers in re-enactments.

The idea that all these citizens of rural America will be invaded by hordes of......whoever, when the apocalypse comes or the Russians invade.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #49)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:43 PM

64. No, no color can be assumed.

Urban combat is about the where, not the who.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #64)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:49 PM

69. Where the hell or why would a civilian engage in urban combat? We know

when the Republicans refer to the urban voters it is code for black voters. Like I said you have a right to protect
your property, but why would you require a gun for "Urban Combat". Who are you going to fight the invading Russians?
I get a kick out of these Red Dawn fantasies the shooting magazines pollute peoples minds with.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #69)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:56 PM

70. There is always the zombie hord.

Marginally more likely would be multiple home invaders.
However, once they are leaving the house, legal self defense gets limited really quick.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #70)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:15 PM

72. For a home invasion an AR-15 would be about my last choice of weapon. You are going to be at very

close range and you run a good risk of killing other family members or even neighbors with stray bullets. Give me a pump or semi auto shotgun, a revolver or a semi auto pistol.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #72)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:34 PM

81. Ummmmm....no

An AR15 is an excellent home defense weapon. Rifles in general are easier to control and aim than handguns and thus less likely to have an issue with stray rounds. They are compact enough to use in close quarters, and due to the frangible nature of the bullets coupled with high velocity they are less likely to overpenetrate walls than most pistol rounds, or a shotgun loaded with even #6 birdshot. Personally, it is my weapon of choice for home defense.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #81)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:30 PM

91. I hope you don't kill one of your family in the next room or your next door neighbor.

You don't need a gun designed for 200 yards or aim at 10 feet and they make shotguns with short barrels designed for close quarters.
Who would use #6 birdshot for home defense and they also make that type of ammo for a pistol. You know the most feared sound for a home invader is the simple sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round. Of course I guess 20 people are going to conspire to rob you in that case an AR-15 would be OK. I really don't think I will have to fight off an army or the zombie apocalypse.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #91)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:53 PM

94. Shotgun vs Semiauto carbine for home defense aside, do not use birdshot for defensive purposes.

 

Its stopping power is extremely limited out of a shotgun (it only inflicts a shallow surface wound), and it's utterly useless when fired out of a handgun (a "snake shot" load).

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #94)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 02:39 PM

153. To say "it only inflicts a shallow surface wound" is incredibly ignorant.

 

A shotgun will deliver a very lethal wound even if fired by someone without training. A shotgun will drop a person at 50 feet or more without any problems. Bone can be a problem for a shotgun if from a distance, but soft tissue is not. Unless the home is huge, then a shotgun is more effective and less likely to kill your neighbor as the shot goes through the walls of the houses, like it would from an AR type weapon. When one of my brothers was 12 and rabbit hunting, his friend dropped his loaded shotgun. The buckshot hit my brother that was about 75 feet away. Unless for the heavy coat my brother was wearing, the buckshot would have been much more than what it was in his skin. An ER doctor had to dig it out of his back. Some of the wounds required stitches. Shallow surface wound indeed.

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #153)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 04:01 PM

155. Did you not notice that I was speaking of birdshot?

 

Buckshot out of a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun is extremely effective at close range....say, 40 yards or less. Birdshot is a terrible choice for self defense.

I can provide link after link demonstrating birdshot's lack of penetration if need be.


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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #153)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:07 PM

160. I see it differently.


To fail to recognize the massive difference between birdshot and buckshot is incredibly ignorant.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #81)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:22 AM

99. I agree with you on almost everything else

But I don't see an AR-15 as a good home defense weapon. It's too long for easy handling in middle of the night situations when you're coming out of a deep sleep. I see a similar problem with actually readying it for use, for almost all owners. There's a huge familiarity curve to overcome before I would consider owners to be proficient with the average AR-15.

I currently have a good old pump shotgun with #2 shot. These loads will lose a vast majority of energy after passing through a single wall, but they will tear a hole right through 1/2 inch plywood with no problem. Besides, the sound of a pump being racked is pretty much universal - a BG on the other side of a bedroom door that hears that is probably going to reconsider his life choices before opening that door.

If I didn't have grand-kids that visited us on a regular basis, I would put either my Ruger GP100 in .357, or SP101 in .327, in the drawer of the night stand. Nothing beats reliability like a wheel gun. No jams, no failures to eject or feed, and if you have a misfire, just pull the trigger again. But, they're too easy for a child, even a 5- or 6-year old, to fire. Instead, my Mossberg 590 pump shotgun sits by the bed, 5 in the magazine and none in the chamber, with the safety on. Since either my wife or I is in the bedroom at all times when the kids are visiting, that should be enough to prevent ADs. As they get older and stronger (and thus more able to chamber a shot-shell), that will probably change to a revolver in a biometric safe.

And if anyone wonders why I have a gun by my bed, We had neighbors on one side who had a young relative that was a banger wannabe, and their house got shot up. On the other side, the former renters had SWAT pay a visit shortly before they were forcibly evicted. The new renters look more civilized, but looks ain't everything. Finally, there have been a rash of car break-ins in our area the past month or so. Based on some of the people I knew in my youth, if they're druggies and they run out of easy pickings, home invasions are a logical next step. They're already occurring in some areas of Las Vegas on a fairly regular basis...

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Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #99)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:44 PM

122. An AR 15..

..with a 16 or 18" barrel is pretty compact and easy to handle in tight quarters. Safe and effective use of any defensive firearm requires that you be familiar and well practiced with it, and I am. Carried the M16 A1 in the Army, and have owned civilian AR's ever since.

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Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #99)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:56 PM

127. So, you van always called your local Law Enforcement.

I am sure they will be more than willing to protect you.
That way you can dispose of your evil firearms and wash the blood from your hands.

Just in case I need it again.

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Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #99)


Response to Matt_R (Reply #134)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 03:09 AM

135. Good point

I guess you can accuse me of being old-fashioned...pump shotguns and wheelguns uber alles!

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Response to doc03 (Reply #72)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:28 PM

90. Lots of misconceptions there.

Of all the guns you list, the AR-15 holds the most rounds and penetrates the fewest walls. Great for hunkering down in a room.

While room clearing is best done as a team sport, if I need to do so, I will be using a pistol so that I have a free hand for controlling any other Good Guys in the house.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #90)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:04 AM

95. Agreed. A semiauto carbine such as an AR-15 is an excellent firearm for home defense.

 

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #49)


Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:13 PM

46. This is the same nra bull we always hear

and one day it WILL change.
Shooting hogs... ROFLMFAO, Those are elephant/rhino poaching weapons.
Some dumb asses wont be happy till they have a tank and a nuke.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:41 PM

51. AR-15... elephant/rhino...

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #51)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:42 PM

67. Lol, yes talk about uninformed

 

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #51)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 03:34 PM

141. Well....

 

I think that an AK-15 Urban Assault Combat Weapon of War and Mass Destruction would be very effective against rhinos and elephants. Well...provided of course, it has the "shoulder thingy that goes up," without that death dealing attachment though, all bets are off. Although, I have heard that with the magical bullet button clip enhancer, your ammo stores are refilled each time you press it... maybe the unlimited ammo cheat that this "feature" (loophole exploit) allows will actually increase the effectiveness of the incredibly small bore and at most moderately powered round.

Of course... if one were to have the bullet button, shoulder thingy that goes up as well as any one of the following... pistol grip, removable hand guard things, the uber silencing flash suppressor... well that would make one nigh indestructible.

Add that evil bayonet lug... Which (I've read on some secret AK-15 forums that give you the cheat codes to unlock all the super evil functions and accessories [but only to "anxious white males] ) will rapid fire bayonets AND lugs at innocent people (only innocent people though) from the from the silencer tip , excluding the 4:30-7:30 clock position zone. When using this feature, please be sure to adjust for daylight savings time; it could get messy.

We all know, however, that all these enhancements and features are useless if they are made from wood and stained in traditional "hunting rifle" finish.

That does lead us to our next topic though... Sniper rifles... camouflaged as hunting rifles. The deadly effects of optics on rate of fire and trajectory, that allows the layman who has never filed any (sniper) rifle to suddenly pick off innocents at distances of up to 3 miles.

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Response to RME_SFC (Reply #141)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:36 AM

143. One thing

Don't forget your 30-magazine clip...

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Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #143)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 11:41 AM

144. Ah yes...

 

Also... the 30 clip-magazine. Either of those... and you become the architect of doom.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:58 PM

53. Ummmm...

Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:50 PM - Edit history (1)

The standard cartridge fired by the AR 15 is the 5.56 NATO round, which fires a high velocity .22 caliber bullet. In most states, it is not legal to use for deer hunting because...IT ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH to ensure a quick and humane kill. Grandpa's old 30-30 lever action fires a much more powerful round than the typical AR 15. Forget even trying to hunt elephant and rhino with one, all you'd accomplish is pissing it off before it stomped you into goo.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:00 PM

60. Q: What do call the sticky stuff on the elephant's feet?

A: Hunters that fired .223.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #60)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:43 PM

68. Good one

 

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:33 PM

62. W. D. m. Bell killed a large number of elephants with the 7 mm Mauser round.

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Response to Hangingon (Reply #62)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:35 PM

63. ...which is considerably...

...more powerful that the 5.56 NATO.

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Response to Hangingon (Reply #62)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:38 PM

75. He was a fantastic shot.

The shot was made aiming at the ear hole of an elephant from a range of 30yards or less. The full metal jacketed bullet would penetrate the skull and hit the brain. The angle must be precise or the beast will only get a massive headache.

This form of hunting is now illegal, as it is extremely dangerous.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #75)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:38 PM

84. He also used...

...6.5 Swedish which became his favorite for this type of hunting.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #84)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:48 PM

93. I once knew had a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser.

Wish I hadn't sold it.

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Response to Hangingon (Reply #93)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:12 AM

96. I have a couple of them. One is a semiautomatic rifle, the AG-42 Ljungman.

 



Interesting rifle. Ten shot magazine which, while technically detachable, was only supposed to be removed for cleaning. It was normally reloaded via stripper clips.

My other Swedish rifle is a sporterized Model 96. While as a collector I normally despise sporterization, this one caught me eye at a gun show. It's been cut down to resemble an 1894 Carbine, with a Mannlicher-style stock and an adjustable trigger. It was priced to sell, so I grabbed it on impulse.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #84)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:59 AM

100. He used a .276 Rigby which is the English version of the 6.5 S.

It was easier to get than the Swedish caliber.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:31 PM

57. The AR-15....21st Century elephant rifle!

 

Move over, .460 Weatherby Magnum. There's a new sheriff in town!



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Response to MFM008 (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:44 PM

58. I'm not one of these guys who think you should only speak if you're a gun expert... but really.

 

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:01 PM

65. Uh...What the...?

 

Seriously? WTF.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:47 PM

76. Its illegal to shoot a deer with an AR-15 here

 

Its not powerful enough.

Im not going to piss of an elephant or rhino with one.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #76)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:00 PM

78. Presuming it's chambered for 5.56mm, yes. It would be perfectly legal and appropriate were it

 

chambered for a somewhat more powerful round such as 6.5 SPC or .300 Blackout.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #76)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:37 PM

83. AR's are perfectly legal to hunt with...

...provided it is chambered for a round that is legal. I have one in 6.8 SPC that has become my go-to deer rifle as well as an AR 10 in 7mm-08 that I would not hesitate to use on elk.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:35 PM

50. Oh, why didn't you say so earlier

Varmint control. Sure, I get it. It makes a great squirrel gun. And who wouldn't want to obliterate those foxes that you'll never see.

500 pound feral hogs. Okay. Seems reasonable. Because I've read about the rampant 500 pound feral hog scourge.

Urban combat. Say no more. Works for me, as long as you live in fantasy land, or Chicago. Have I missed the Time Magazine articles about the urban combat threat sweeping the country.

Modularity. I get this, too. Things like caliber options, recoil, range, weight, length, hold, grip, and on and on are undoubtedly very important to people with small dicks and smaller brains.

Sorry, folks, but you're full of shit.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #50)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:02 PM

66. Full of what?

500 pound feral hogs. Okay. Seems reasonable. Because I've read about the rampant 500 pound feral hog scourge.

...

Sorry, folks, but you're full of shit.

Read and learn:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/a-plague-of-pigs-in-texas-73769069

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #66)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:31 PM

74. Interesting

Nothing in the article about assault rifles. Sounds like it's a frustrating problem in spots and that responsible agencies and hunters are dealing with it as best they can. No reference I saw in a quick read about assault weapons.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #74)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:46 AM

97. Yes.

Nothing in the article about assault rifles. Sounds like it's a frustrating problem in spots and that responsible agencies and hunters are dealing with it as best they can. No reference I saw in a quick read about assault weapons.

Google "hog hunting with an AR." You'll get plenty of results. Consensus is that the standard 5.56/.223 is a bit underpowered, but that larger caliber offerings in the same platform are ideal.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hog+hunting+with+an+AR


A better choice is an AK-style rifle: larger, harder-hitting round:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hog+hunting+with+an+AK


Then there's this:

http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear-accessories/feral-firepower-best-hog-hunting-guns-2015/

Five of the twelve they pick are "assault" weapons.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #74)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 04:33 PM

142. Did you not insinuate that feral hogs

 

are not an issue? The article that was linked demonstrated that hogs are in fact a problem.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:27 PM

73. good article

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:19 PM

79. They are fun to shoot. Any other reason is

baloney.

For the price of a new AR-15 you can buy at least two used rifles that will kill all the non-human animals you want in North America and punch holes in paper just fine.

Including urban combat is just insulting.

As far as our friend bring up "battle" rifles that are 80 years and older; how many Tommies carrying a .303 Enfield wouldn't be delighted to swap it for an AR-15? How many GIs would have rather had a light semi auto instead of a Garand?

And so on.

I appreciate the post with the video of shooting the Garand. Now go search youtube for rapid fire AR-15 to get a comparison. Might as well search for Lee-Enfield mad minute as well.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #79)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:05 PM

88. AR's are down to 550. Used CVA break actions run 190 bucks.

That being said you are right, they're a load of fun to shoot. I'm hoping to pick up a 300blk upper for close in deer hunting this fall, give the BAR and M100 a break.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:40 PM

85. great for mopping up the fear-piss when you see a black kid on a bike go by!

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Response to MisterP (Reply #85)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:08 PM

89. They make awful mops....not absorbent at all.

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Response to MisterP (Reply #85)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:45 PM

92. Really hoping you just forgot the sarcasm tag.


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Response to MisterP (Reply #85)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:39 PM

117. "MisterP"? Okay.

 

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Response to MisterP (Reply #85)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 09:34 PM

145. you do know

that black people own ars?

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Response to beergood (Reply #145)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 09:56 PM

146. You don't say...

AR's are the most common rifle in my community, and there's nary a Taibo around.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #146)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 10:52 PM

147. Taibo

that means white man?

not a surprise, just about everyone on the res. not far from my town owns a firearm. they know not to trust whitey.

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Response to beergood (Reply #147)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:23 AM

148. Yeah.

More or less literally it means "devil" or "bad spirit" but that's what we call the white man, heheh.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #148)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 01:17 AM

157. did you ever watch Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls?

there's a scene where Jim Carrey is referred to as "white devil"

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:59 AM

98. I bought one years ago, didn't use it

I sold it after Sandy Hook for more than I paid for it.

I bought another one about 3 months ago, it was a partial assembly required (stripped lower and assembled upper). It's strictly a range gun - I haven't shot a living creature for more than 30 years, and I have no intention of ever doing it again.

There are several things I really like about this weapon:
1. It is an inherently simple design - an amateur DIY'er like me can tear down and re-assemble it very easily.
2. There's a huge market of aftermarket parts, and customizing it is very easy. (Which in itself is extremely appealing to my inner tinkerer...)
3. It's a lot of fun to shoot, and not too bad as far as accuracy.

And, though I know it's childish, the mere fact that I have one is bound to piss someone off, somewhere...

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Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #98)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:12 PM

121. Sounds like a win all around

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2016, 11:43 PM

138. Solid article.

Saving the link to share this with my fellow left-leaning friends who lack the prejudice to appreciate it.

Edited to add: Also love this article for it's reason-based footing -- the fact that it confronts the pro-restriction lie that gun rights is a position professed solely by the wing-nut political right.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #165)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:21 PM

168. Cowardly?

what is cowardly about owning a rifle?

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Response to Post removed (Reply #165)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:39 PM

169. You have an odd definition of cowardice.

I view a coward as someone who spews bile and dishonest talking points, and persons who believe "Because I say so" is a valid argument.

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Response to pablo_marmol (Reply #169)

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:47 PM

170. IMHO one sign of a coward might be...

...one who fails to defend, explain or clarify their opinions...
...or even respond at all...
...
...even on an anonymous internet message board.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #170)

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 03:22 AM

171. Yup.




We see an awful lot of that........particularly from certain drive-by members.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #170)

Sun Jul 24, 2016, 01:04 PM

172. Another example of cowardice........


Upon discovering that multiple liberal criminologists don't buy the 'more guns = more violence' argument you would think that a person of character and courage would pause, and check their biases. Are Controllers capable of displaying such integrity and courage? Not on your life.

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