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Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:44 PM Jun 2016

Why millions of Americans — including me — own the AR-15

The AR-15 is less a model of rifle than it is an open-source, modular weapons platform that can be customized for a whole range of applications, from varmint control to taking out 500-pound feral hogs to urban combat. Everything about an individual AR-15 can be changed with aftermarket parts — the caliber of ammunition, recoil, range, weight, length, hold and grip, and on and on.


http://www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11975850/ar-15-owner-orlando

Discuss
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Why millions of Americans — including me — own the AR-15 (Original Post) Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 OP
Exactly Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #1
In other words, a handy-dandy modular mass slaughter machine. leveymg Jun 2016 #2
You obviously... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #5
I actually did. The primary argument in favor is that it's a convenient, easy to use killing machine leveymg Jun 2016 #8
I have four and have never killed a living thing. hack89 Jun 2016 #6
I have some old NRA patches from Boy Scout camp, myself. leveymg Jun 2016 #11
I'm sure... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #13
No one in Congress is dumb enough to actually confiscate guns hack89 Jun 2016 #14
So you must only use it for target shooting. In that case you could leave it locked at a range and The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #32
Because we know that guns ranges are so secure hack89 Jun 2016 #54
So all gun stores are safe. Gees, bad argument. At least their would be certified responsibility. The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #105
And anyone shot would be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #106
Where does it stop. When does the safety of the child on the street count on everyone having an AK? The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #108
The firearms that I own... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #109
Just a few points here discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #119
They pay a lot for security and insurance hack89 Jun 2016 #107
At least as safe as military armories. Heh. But you knew that. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #111
If you have to go back to the 1920's, it seems quite safe. Where can we begin? Things have to The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #115
Do I want to be shot? No. And I don't fear that. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #118
I was talking about the plural "you". The threat is not with you but those who are the prey of too The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #123
Pehaps you can point to someone actually saying; "there should be a gun in every hand"? DonP Jun 2016 #124
Is it enforced? I thought it was archaic and ignored as senseless. The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #125
The NRA... Human101948 Jun 2016 #126
Oh, you mean those "stupid" armed guards in every Chicago high school ... DonP Jun 2016 #128
Well, to be fair... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #130
Yeah, that "big win" will be in court in a New York Minute DonP Jun 2016 #131
Your biggest problem at ATL is... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #136
There are good limits in place. I support UBCs to extend the current prohibitions Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #137
Your hobby has killed many people lewebley3 Jul 2016 #152
You talking about my bourbon collection? nt hack89 Jul 2016 #156
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #21
Not too many blunt objects have been used for mass murders. leveymg Jun 2016 #24
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #27
You said, "About a rifle that is used in fewer killings than blunt objects, by the way -- such good leveymg Jun 2016 #30
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #34
doesn't imply anything gejohnston Jun 2016 #35
Logical and persuasive are more than simply reasonable. leveymg Jun 2016 #56
except that you are assuming, gejohnston Jun 2016 #59
Except, that I am correct. leveymg Jun 2016 #82
your logical fallacy is gejohnston Jun 2016 #86
According to you, I am a liar. That's not an argument, it's attack. leveymg Jun 2016 #101
no, and you don't know what the word liar means gejohnston Jun 2016 #102
Gosh, leveymg, you seem to have a hair-trigger. "Attack?" Hardly. OKC. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #112
Better keep this person away from a gun! ;-) NT pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #139
That argument is so compelling... Jerry442 Jun 2016 #52
As is fertilizer and diesel fuel. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #110
Just like nearly every other gun in the country. krispos42 Jun 2016 #129
People are are dying to for this guys hobby: he should be ashamed of himself lewebley3 Jul 2016 #151
Au contraire, those who call a civil right a hobby should be ashamed of themselves... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #154
The country has a right to regulate guns: that's the countries civil rights according lewebley3 Jul 2016 #158
firearms ownership.. Puha Ekapi Jul 2016 #159
Even if we could cut the number of guns in the nation in HALF........ pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #161
Countries do not have rights, they have powers. People have rights... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #162
Emphasis mine: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #163
Obviously the framers were talking about 'the people' then... beevul Jul 2016 #164
The people are the goverment: they are not seperate from the goverment lewebley3 Jul 2016 #166
"...of the people, by the people, for the people..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #167
That's one of the stupidest things I've read in this thread... NaturalHigh Jul 2016 #173
I see your point BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #3
Great use of modern marketing jargon The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #4
Do you know what has killed many more? hack89 Jun 2016 #7
Give it some more time. leveymg Jun 2016 #9
So what ? The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #17
Is it safe to assume you regard all guns as "nasty"? nt hack89 Jun 2016 #19
Look I'm not going to waste any more time with you The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #37
I fine with that. nt hack89 Jun 2016 #55
That comment shows how little you know... virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #18
More people killed by rocks ... rickford66 Jun 2016 #77
Uh, how many people would have died in Orlando if the shooter used one of those? nt flamin lib Jun 2016 #103
Getting heavy are they? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #104
Actually, the government keeps count: Fewer than 300 deaths from ALL rifles... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #149
My ex killed feral hogs and javalinas with a regular old 30-06. Zen Democrat Jun 2016 #10
A regular old .30-06? Straw Man Jun 2016 #15
"On American streets" is anti-gun speak for "in private hands". beevul Jun 2016 #61
Your 30-06 was designed to kill humans oneshooter Jun 2016 #16
Like the British Lee Enfield virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #20
But but... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #26
ROFLMAO!!! virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #23
You STOP THAT! RME_SFC Jun 2016 #140
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #25
Isn't a .30-06 for hogs over kill? gejohnston Jun 2016 #31
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #38
Are you under the impression that the .30-06 is not a "people killer" designed for military use? Just reading posts Jun 2016 #39
They are designed to send a projectile down the barrel with great speed and accuracy. Waldorf Jun 2016 #71
In case you haven't figured it out, the rifle in #15 is semi-auto, like the ARs. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #113
Excellent article, and worth a cross post in GD. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #12
And we will continue to own them.. virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #22
How many US citizens have a daily or even occasional need guillaumeb Jun 2016 #28
This is nothing but gun porn to feed the fantasies of anxious white males gejohnston Jun 2016 #33
Indeed so, very sad Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #40
So I am thus a self-hating white male? guillaumeb Jun 2016 #47
What about... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #44
Please delete the words "white males" guillaumeb Jun 2016 #48
Perhaps not so fast chknltl Jun 2016 #80
Carl T Bogus, gejohnston Jun 2016 #87
The former slave states enacted all manner of Jim Crow laws to disarm blacks, post Civil War... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #114
And to add to that: guillaumeb Jun 2016 #120
Michael Bellisiles won the Bancroft Prize for history. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #150
This message was self-deleted by its author DemFromPittsburgh Jun 2016 #29
Wow that took a while Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #41
You're welcome. DemFromPittsburgh Jun 2016 #42
EDP. Sounds like a rap group. Maybe punk rock. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #116
This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Jun 2016 #132
Thank you shireen Jun 2016 #36
Urban Combat give me a f---g break. You mean when those people invade your suburbs doc03 Jun 2016 #43
The select fire Military version was designed for urban combat and CQB use. DonP Jun 2016 #45
And when the term "urban combat" is used, guillaumeb Jun 2016 #49
No, no color can be assumed. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #64
Where the hell or why would a civilian engage in urban combat? We know doc03 Jun 2016 #69
There is always the zombie hord. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #70
For a home invasion an AR-15 would be about my last choice of weapon. You are going to be at very doc03 Jun 2016 #72
Ummmmm....no Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #81
I hope you don't kill one of your family in the next room or your next door neighbor. doc03 Jun 2016 #91
Shotgun vs Semiauto carbine for home defense aside, do not use birdshot for defensive purposes. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #94
To say "it only inflicts a shallow surface wound" is incredibly ignorant. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #153
Did you not notice that I was speaking of birdshot? Just reading posts Jul 2016 #155
I see it differently. pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #160
I agree with you on almost everything else tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #99
An AR 15.. Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #122
So, you van always called your local Law Enforcement. oneshooter Jun 2016 #127
This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Jun 2016 #134
Good point tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #135
Lots of misconceptions there. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #90
Agreed. A semiauto carbine such as an AR-15 is an excellent firearm for home defense. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #95
This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Jun 2016 #133
This is the same nra bull we always hear MFM008 Jun 2016 #46
AR-15... elephant/rhino... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #51
Lol, yes talk about uninformed Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #67
Well.... RME_SFC Jun 2016 #141
One thing tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #143
Ah yes... RME_SFC Jun 2016 #144
Ummmm... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #53
Q: What do call the sticky stuff on the elephant's feet? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #60
Good one Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #68
W. D. m. Bell killed a large number of elephants with the 7 mm Mauser round. Hangingon Jun 2016 #62
...which is considerably... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #63
He was a fantastic shot. oneshooter Jun 2016 #75
He also used... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #84
I once knew had a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. Hangingon Jun 2016 #93
I have a couple of them. One is a semiautomatic rifle, the AG-42 Ljungman. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #96
He used a .276 Rigby which is the English version of the 6.5 S. oneshooter Jun 2016 #100
The AR-15....21st Century elephant rifle! Just reading posts Jun 2016 #57
I'm not one of these guys who think you should only speak if you're a gun expert... but really. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #58
Uh...What the...? beevul Jun 2016 #65
Its illegal to shoot a deer with an AR-15 here Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #76
Presuming it's chambered for 5.56mm, yes. It would be perfectly legal and appropriate were it Just reading posts Jun 2016 #78
AR's are perfectly legal to hunt with... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #83
Oh, why didn't you say so earlier matt819 Jun 2016 #50
Full of what? Straw Man Jun 2016 #66
Interesting matt819 Jun 2016 #74
Yes. Straw Man Jun 2016 #97
Did you not insinuate that feral hogs RME_SFC Jun 2016 #142
good article beergood Jun 2016 #73
They are fun to shoot. Any other reason is Buzz cook Jun 2016 #79
AR's are down to 550. Used CVA break actions run 190 bucks. ileus Jun 2016 #88
great for mopping up the fear-piss when you see a black kid on a bike go by! MisterP Jun 2016 #85
They make awful mops....not absorbent at all. ileus Jun 2016 #89
Really hoping you just forgot the sarcasm tag. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #92
"MisterP"? Okay. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #117
you do know beergood Jun 2016 #145
You don't say... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #146
Taibo beergood Jun 2016 #147
Yeah. Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #148
did you ever watch Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls? beergood Jul 2016 #157
I bought one years ago, didn't use it tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #98
Sounds like a win all around discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #121
Solid article. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #138
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #165
Cowardly? bolus Jul 2016 #168
You have an odd definition of cowardice. pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #169
IMHO one sign of a coward might be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #170
Yup. pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #171
Another example of cowardice........ pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #172

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
2. In other words, a handy-dandy modular mass slaughter machine.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:52 PM
Jun 2016

The next best thing to sarin gas or a battlefield nuclear device to have in the closet when the Zombie Apocalypse* comes.

* Dog whistle for class war, race war, civil war, social collapse, whatever you want.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
8. I actually did. The primary argument in favor is that it's a convenient, easy to use killing machine
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:27 PM
Jun 2016

It's even portrayed as a more humane, sure-kill way to hunt large mammals. Just an updated Henry Rifle.

Doesn't change the character of the thing one bit.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
6. I have four and have never killed a living thing.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:21 PM
Jun 2016

so it is obvious there are other uses besides mass slaughter. Not black and white enough for you, I suspect.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
11. I have some old NRA patches from Boy Scout camp, myself.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:35 PM
Jun 2016

I admit that target shooting can be fun, along with plinking, and what have you. To each his own.

I'm sure you'll get to keep the ones you already own.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
14. No one in Congress is dumb enough to actually confiscate guns
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:38 PM
Jun 2016

no proposed AWB will be retroactive.

The Wielding Truth

(11,415 posts)
32. So you must only use it for target shooting. In that case you could leave it locked at a range and
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:16 PM
Jun 2016

no one or thing would have to worry about you losing it someday and killing many many living things.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
54. Because we know that guns ranges are so secure
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jun 2016

And besides, hundreds of valuable rifles on one location would never tempt a thief.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
106. And anyone shot would be...
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:55 AM
Jun 2016

...less injured or less dead due to that responsibility.
There's crime prevention and control at its best.

The Wielding Truth

(11,415 posts)
108. Where does it stop. When does the safety of the child on the street count on everyone having an AK?
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jun 2016

If someone has to use a grenade or a flame thrower, should they insist on carrying that around anywhere?

What are the requirements and well regulated sensible safety rules to control them. I'm not talking one gun to protect yourself or hunting rifles. I'm talking weapons that would be difficult if not impossible to stop even by police. Let's get serious and hold back on gunslingers and anyone so thrilled by death or their own importance that they wish to start wars and let's step into the way of arms dealers profits.

Please, let our kids be as safe as possible, under the "right to blow holes in everything around you if you have the whim" amendment.

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
109. The firearms that I own...
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:20 PM
Jun 2016

...are not a danger to any innocent person. Forcing me to give them up will not increase public safety in the least.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
119. Just a few points here
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:40 PM
Jun 2016

I'm not suggesting that everyone's safety depends on a weapon. I quote #27 from the (unofficial) USMC Rules for Gun Fighting: "Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

Having said those things, banning and onerous regulations will only encourage further crime in a country where privately owned guns are as common as privately owned cars.

AKs (full-auto weapons), explosives and flame throwers (and numerous other weapons) are already only legal for private citizens after a long investigation and approval process by the ATF. The last crime involving a full-auto was the North Hollywood shootout at Bank of America in 1997. An AR-15 is no more lethal than any other semi-auto of the same caliber.

Hold back on gunslingers/thrilled by death folks by all means. Determine who those folks are according to due process in the courts not by what color they like their rifle.

What do you mean by "step into the way of arms dealers profits"?

Re: "...right to blow holes in everything..." amendment; there isn't one. Hyperbole I infer.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
107. They pay a lot for security and insurance
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:56 AM
Jun 2016

The typical gun club can't afford it. Now if the government is willing to heavily subsidize such measures with tax payer money I might consider it.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
111. At least as safe as military armories. Heh. But you knew that.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jun 2016

The Ashley Gang (motor bandits who operated THE vertically integrated distilling/distributing system for South Florida in the 1920s) obtained their FULL-AUTO weapons from military armories. They preferred the BAR, not that Thompson stuff.

The Wielding Truth

(11,415 posts)
115. If you have to go back to the 1920's, it seems quite safe. Where can we begin? Things have to
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:25 PM
Jun 2016

settle down. I don't want to be shot. Do you?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
118. Do I want to be shot? No. And I don't fear that.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:58 PM
Jun 2016

I keep my arms locked in a safe, ammunition is locked separately.

The Wielding Truth

(11,415 posts)
123. I was talking about the plural "you". The threat is not with you but those who are the prey of too
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:28 PM
Jun 2016

many guns from those who insist that there should be a gun in every hand.

There must be limits. You (singularly) can agree on that.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
124. Pehaps you can point to someone actually saying; "there should be a gun in every hand"?
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 06:57 PM
Jun 2016

The only place I ever usually hear that kind of verbal stupidity is the gun control people desperately trying to pretend some gun owner actually said that.

Like the; "Guns everywhere for everybody with no laws" meme they love so very much.

Hey, speaking of laws, we were promised a bloodbath in Georgia, if they passed the "Guns Everywhere" laws! Whatever happened to that law?

Has Georgia descended into the Mad Max post apocalyptic existence we were warned of, or can I still make plane connections at Hartsfield-Jackson next week?

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
126. The NRA...
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:46 PM
Jun 2016

At the National Rifle Association's first press conference since the Newtown massacre that killed 27 people, most of them elementary school children, the gun lobby's CEO Wayne LaPierre said the solution is more guns...

While encouraging Americans to buy more guns—which would enrich the companies that fund the NRA—and station gun-toting guards at all schools, LaPierre declined to support any compromise on gun restrictions. And he engaged in a brazen act of hypocrisy. He warned of a society "populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters—people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them."

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12/nra-chief-calls-more-guns-everywhere

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
128. Oh, you mean those "stupid" armed guards in every Chicago high school ...
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:09 PM
Jun 2016

... and the stupid armed guards in every high end private school in DC where the legislators kids go? Yeah armed guards are stupid.

Yeah that's so stupid the legislators on both sides of the aisle insist on it for all their kids, but yours are on their own with a "Gun Free Zone" sign and a maybe a new front door lock.

Your problem is LaPierre keeps winning on these issues for the past 22 years, while gun control just whines online about how unfair it all is.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
136. Your biggest problem at ATL is...
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:02 AM
Jun 2016

...if you fly Delta or change carriers, you may have a bit of a walk combined with train ride between flights. Going anywhere good?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
137. There are good limits in place. I support UBCs to extend the current prohibitions
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 10:16 AM
Jun 2016

of criminals and adjudicated mental incompetents having guns.

Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
24. Not too many blunt objects have been used for mass murders.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:48 PM
Jun 2016

You guys have gotta try harder. It's that logic thing. I know it's tough, but . . .

Response to leveymg (Reply #24)

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
30. You said, "About a rifle that is used in fewer killings than blunt objects, by the way -- such good
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:10 PM
Jun 2016

slaughter machines that other things are used much more often than they are... Now that's scary!"

That implies that AR-15s are less effective than clubs, if one simply totes up the total number of people killed by each. That's not the only way a reasonable person looks at the subject. Sorry, but your argument really isn't logical (or persuasive) if you don't also consider the lethality of each weapon in an individual's hands.

But, hey, when did logic and proportion ever mean anything to the NRA?! It's more about campaign cash and true believers, isn't it?

Response to leveymg (Reply #30)

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
35. doesn't imply anything
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:19 PM
Jun 2016

simply pointing out an FBI statistic.
Reasonable has an objective standard, yours isn't.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
56. Logical and persuasive are more than simply reasonable.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:13 PM
Jun 2016

The other poster wasn't being any of the above, but was trying to divert the point I originally made that semi-automatics such as the AR-15 have been more lethal, in terms of victims killed per attack, than any other type of firearm used in mass killings.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
59. except that you are assuming,
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:52 PM
Jun 2016

based only on media accounts in the US. You don't know that to be a fact.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
82. Except, that I am correct.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:36 PM
Jun 2016

It is the here and now that count, not the heaps of bodies living dead and heartless at the base of Mayan temples six hundred years ago killed with glass daggers.

Something must be done about the here and now, for it is all we can do.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
101. According to you, I am a liar. That's not an argument, it's attack.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 08:17 AM
Jun 2016

Perhaps you believe that those who don't follow the NRA propaganda line are all liars? How am I lying? Is that all you can say?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
102. no, and you don't know what the word liar means
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:12 AM
Jun 2016

a lie is intentionally telling an untruth. You believe it to be true, therefore you are not a liar. All I said that there is no empirical evidence to support that. What I did say was that you were making a fallacious argument.

Jerry442

(1,265 posts)
52. That argument is so compelling...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:51 PM
Jun 2016

...I'm surprised you guys don't have a rapid-reaction team to fly to the location of each mass shooting and console the friends and loved ones of the dead by pointing out to them that the deaths were statistically insignificant.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
129. Just like nearly every other gun in the country.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:39 PM
Jun 2016

Let's face it... Nearly every gun in this country, in the hands of a relentless killer who picks a nice soft target, is capable of getting off dozens of shots before armed police can intervene. Revolver, lever-action gun, double barreled shotgun... Given a five-minute police response time and competent gun handling skills, dozens of shots can be fired before the first police cars screech to a halt.

Your issue seems to be that the amount of built-in customization and personal ergonomic adjustment somehow makes an AR-15 just that much faster as to be unacceptably deadly.

That an AR-15 is acceptably deadly as long as it doesn't have an ergonomic pistol grip, but that slightly superior grip and the modest increase is handling put it over some arbitrary edge.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
161. Even if we could cut the number of guns in the nation in HALF........
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:11 PM
Jul 2016

.........there would still be many times more than needed to supply the criminal element with the guns they utilize, given the very small percentage of guns that are used in crime.

This is why "gun control" is so absolutely ridiculous on it's face --- beside the fact that you can't "control" what's in high demand.
 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
162. Countries do not have rights, they have powers. People have rights...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:11 PM
Jul 2016

...and keeping and bearing arms is one of them in the US, unless and until the Second Amendment
is repealed.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
163. Emphasis mine:
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:51 PM
Jul 2016
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."


However, and IMNSHO, the RKBA is a human right, everywhere. Government permission is not required. It is as natural and innate as a right to life. Whatever tools one chooses as a means of self-defense are covered in that right. Anyone or any group or government that chooses to pretend otherwise is free to be wrong. Rights don't disappear because a person, group or government fails to respect them.

Just a pet peeve.
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
164. Obviously the framers were talking about 'the people' then...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:01 PM
Jul 2016

Obviously the framers were talking about 'the people' then, as a nongovernmental body, when they said 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms'.

This is yet another way that the 'militia' reading of the second amendment is destroyed.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
167. "...of the people, by the people, for the people..."
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:18 PM
Jul 2016

Indeed they are separate from the government. The people are guaranteed their rights by law. Those laws were written to protect the rights of the individuals from abuses by the government. The rights of any minority may be systematically abused by the majority in the form of laws contrary to those rights. For this reason laws passed by the legislature are subject to judicial review.

The language of the Declaration of Independence: "...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." clearly announces governments as being man made creations. Governments do not have rights.

BeyondGeography

(39,367 posts)
3. I see your point
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jun 2016

Elmer Fudd might have been able to actually kill Daffy if he hadn't been limited to a plain old shotgun.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
9. Give it some more time.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:31 PM
Jun 2016

The body count with Enfields, Mausers and Springfield Arms took two world wars. Just wait and see what the next one brings.

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
18. That comment shows how little you know...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:07 PM
Jun 2016

I know for a fact, as a military historian that the mauser rifle, and its many derivatives has killed many MANY times more human beings...

I even have one.. {not mine}



And no proposed legislation even mentions them.. And it is a REAL, GENUINE, fully functional "weapon of war". unlike what our current crop of leaders think.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
149. Actually, the government keeps count: Fewer than 300 deaths from ALL rifles...
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 01:50 PM
Jul 2016

And since the semi-auto carbine is within that number, the totals are even less.

Semi-autos are NOT the battle rifle in any armed force in the world, FULL AUTOS are. So, again the numbers are not "countless." Now, in the past large numbers of soldiers were killed with the semi-auto Garand, and the semi-auto M1 carbine, but those models are considered obsolete (the latter shooting low-power rounds). And neither have the characteristics of nor the all-important "looks" of the AR and AK -- or the Sig Sauer used in Orlando.

The only way to "Ban" the AR and AK families of carbines is to engulf ALL semi-auto rifles and pistols -- the most popular type of arms in the U.S. Good luck with that.

You might note that even MSM is carrying articles and OPs which are calling for gun control advocates to drop he whole ban approach, especially as it pertains to semi-auto carbines. They don't think there is any future in that.

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
10. My ex killed feral hogs and javalinas with a regular old 30-06.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:35 PM
Jun 2016

Nobody needs an AR-15 or similar weapon in civilian life. They are designed to be people killers. They were made for military use. To have them on American streets is insane.

Straw Man

(6,622 posts)
15. A regular old .30-06?
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:56 PM
Jun 2016

Like this?



The round it fires is larger and more destructive than the 5.56/.223 of the AR. It only holds eight rounds, but can be reloaded with stripper clips as quickly as magazines can be changed on an AR.



I don't know what you and others mean by "on American streets." I have never seen anyone carrying on AR on the street. They are in people's homes, on shooting ranges, and in the hunting field. I have seen video of open-carry activist yahoos parading around with them to get attention, but that's rare.
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
61. "On American streets" is anti-gun speak for "in private hands".
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:23 PM
Jun 2016

"On American streets" is anti-gun speak for "in private hands". When they say "guns off the streets", its just code for "out of private possession".

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
16. Your 30-06 was designed to kill humans
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:58 PM
Jun 2016

And has been doing so since 1906. More people have been killed by a 30-06 than any 223.

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
20. Like the British Lee Enfield
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:18 PM
Jun 2016

Behold the mad minute... During World War 1, British troops using their Lee Enfield bolt action rifles, convinced the Germans that they were facing machine guns. And firing a far more powerful, and effective round than the AR-15



O, and if you want too see someone do over 20 AIMED rounds in a minute, with multiple reloads, and even a minor jam...


But according to our current crop of leaders, that is NOT a weapon of war. Many MANY Germans, and Japanese would beg to differ..

No current proposed legislation would effect these at all...

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
23. ROFLMAO!!!
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:26 PM
Jun 2016
They were made for military use. To have them on American streets is insane.


The .30-06 Springfield cartridge (pronounced "thirty-aught-six" or "thirty-oh-six&quot , 7.62×63mm in metric notation and called ".30 Gov't '06" by Winchester, was introduced to the United States Army in 1906 and later standardized; it remained in use until the early 1980s.


From what I understand, that round made quite an impression on lots of Germans, Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese..

Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #10)

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
31. Isn't a .30-06 for hogs over kill?
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:15 PM
Jun 2016

Your ex probably used basically the same rifle used in both world wars. As for the .30-06 not being designed as a "people killer", as others have mentioned, a lot of Japanese, German, North Korean, and Chinese soldiers would disagree with that. BTW, so would some Kent State students. The biggest obsticle to a dialog between the two sides is that one side doesn't know what it is talking about.

Response to gejohnston (Reply #31)

Waldorf

(654 posts)
71. They are designed to send a projectile down the barrel with great speed and accuracy.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:56 PM
Jun 2016

It is up to the person who decides how to use the firearm. Since there are so many of them and used in so few crimes, it appears they are being used legally.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

I live in Texas, with lots of hog problems, and an AR 15 type firearm is the preferred choice.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
113. In case you haven't figured it out, the rifle in #15 is semi-auto, like the ARs.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:50 PM
Jun 2016

Remington has for decades made a deer rifle which is semi-auto, and before that, the Model 8 (1906) which fired .35 rounds. It's limited magazine was replaced with an early after-market "banana" magazine so it could fire more rounds. Clyde Barrow met his end via a Model 8, though the arm was designed and built for hunting.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
28. How many US citizens have a daily or even occasional need
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:03 PM
Jun 2016

to kill feral hogs or engage in urban combat?

This is nothing but gun porn to feed the fantasies of anxious white males and convince them that as long as they are carrying a weapon "all is right with the world". (With thanks to Robert Browning)

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
44. What about...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:03 PM
Jun 2016

...people of color such as myself who own these rifles? Are we "anxious white males" too?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
48. Please delete the words "white males"
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:18 PM
Jun 2016

and substitute the appropriate label.

The Second Amendment was written for an agrarian society with no established police force and a society for which the Founders did not provide an established, standing army. Hence the need for a "well regulated militia being necessary for the security...".

If this country eliminates its massive standing army and all police forces I will concede that an armed citizenry might fill a need.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
80. Perhaps not so fast
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:31 PM
Jun 2016

I heard a historian interviewed by Thom Hartmann make the case that the 'well regulated militia'(s) refered to in the 2nd amendment were actually slave patrols. That would indeed make them mostly, if not specifically white males.

The historian's basic premise: 'Prior to the ratification of the Constitution there were two reasons the Southern slave states wanted the inclusion of the 2nd amendment.

The first was they wanted to continue on with their slave militias. Slaves were critical to their economy but periodically they revolted, sometimes individually but sometimes they did so on a much larger scale. For this reason there were both local and state run militias used to keep the slaves in check.

The second reason stemmed from the ongoing disagreement between the slave states and the non-slave states. According to the historian the way the 2nd amendment was deliberately worded, it could legally be interpreted to mean that the 'rights of the states to operate slave militias could not be infringed'. By doing this, the slave states now in essence had a written Constitutional guarantee to continue on with slave militias, which, according to the historian, enhanced their willingness to ratify the Constitution.'

I am not sure I have the interview fully accurate but i think it is close enough. If memory serves, the historian's name was Bogus, (yeah i know...), it was a most fascinating interview imho. He was discussing his book on that topic if you care to research the name.




gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
87. Carl T Bogus,
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:55 PM
Jun 2016

he isn't a historian, he is a law professor that worked for some gun prohibition think tank funded by the Joyce Foundation.
He wrote an article for a law review making that claim, but he never provided the evidence, since it was "the hidden history".
There is no evidence to support his claim, and slave patrols were State functionaries and not part of a militia.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1465114

BTW, law reviews are not peer reviewed.

Since his nonsense was ignored by historians, the only sites that cared to mention it were people like David Kopel, and this guy.
Since The Root seems left of center, I chose it.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2013/01/second_amendment_slave_control_not_the_aim/

Bogus, being one of the few believers in collective rights theory, relied on a book written by Herbert Aptheker in the late forties. Historians didn't take it seriously then, and even less so after research showed we had fewer slave revolts than other slave societies in the Western Hemisphere. The few that were not just in the South.

I used to like Hartman until he started sounding like an anti Mormon bigot with his "Romney is part of an LDS conspiracy to make the country a theocracy", that and his dishonesty on a few other issue. I found it hypocritical that he would attack my religious heritage, but any criticism of some religions is off limits. I frankly don't think he is as scholarly as he tries to portray himself.

BTW, saying that something is bad because it is more common among whites is just as racist and saying the same about any other race. White guilt and virtue signaling is no excuse.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
114. The former slave states enacted all manner of Jim Crow laws to disarm blacks, post Civil War...
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:05 PM
Jun 2016

If the Second was there only for "slave patrols," it was a badly framed amendment which required some patching up. In fact, the all-important 14th Amendment was essentially passed to keep the states from infringing on former slaves' RKBA, and all the other rights. It took until the 1950s before the courts recognized this, heralding the end of de jure segregation, and the beginning of the Civil Rights Era.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
120. And to add to that:
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:46 PM
Jun 2016

The first police force was established in South Carolina specifically as a slave control group. All white males of property were required to be armed and were considered members of the slave patrol.

On a related matter, I am currently reading a book by Garry Wills, a Pulitzer prize winning author, titled: Negro President...Jefferson and the Slave Power. A fascinating book about how the slavery question influenced both the writing of the Constitution and other matters.

Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

Response to DemFromPittsburgh (Reply #29)

shireen

(8,333 posts)
36. Thank you
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:19 PM
Jun 2016

That was a very informative article. Bookmarked for reference.

How were the guns used in mass shootings configured? Could those same configurations be used for practical purposes like taking down hogs? Is it possible to ban certain configurations that are optimized for inflicting mass casualties?

This is a very difficult painful topic. On one hand, I respect the right of gun ownership. But when's a gun too much gun?



doc03

(35,321 posts)
43. Urban Combat give me a f---g break. You mean when those people invade your suburbs
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:42 PM
Jun 2016

you can kill them, I understand. Oh you said Urban Combat, must mean in case those urban people get rowdy we can
go in and clear the area. We have the right to protect our own property, I understand. But in what case would the average civilian engage in Urban Combat, what a preemptive strike?

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
45. The select fire Military version was designed for urban combat and CQB use.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:06 PM
Jun 2016

The semi-auto is just that, semi-auto, one trigger pull, one shot. No military in the world uses a semi auto firearm as it's main battle rifle.

A lot of people hunting feral hogs (Now an ecological and farming problem all the way north to Michigan and Illinois) use semi autos.

Killing one or two of a herd of them doesn't stop the predation and ruined acreage.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
49. And when the term "urban combat" is used,
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:21 PM
Jun 2016

is there a particular color that one can assume?

This feeds into the "Nat Turner" fantasy also popular among some very few of the gun crowd. The same types that dress up as Southern soldiers in re-enactments.

The idea that all these citizens of rural America will be invaded by hordes of......whoever, when the apocalypse comes or the Russians invade.

doc03

(35,321 posts)
69. Where the hell or why would a civilian engage in urban combat? We know
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:49 PM
Jun 2016

when the Republicans refer to the urban voters it is code for black voters. Like I said you have a right to protect
your property, but why would you require a gun for "Urban Combat". Who are you going to fight the invading Russians?
I get a kick out of these Red Dawn fantasies the shooting magazines pollute peoples minds with.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
70. There is always the zombie hord.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:56 PM
Jun 2016

Marginally more likely would be multiple home invaders.
However, once they are leaving the house, legal self defense gets limited really quick.

doc03

(35,321 posts)
72. For a home invasion an AR-15 would be about my last choice of weapon. You are going to be at very
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:15 PM
Jun 2016

close range and you run a good risk of killing other family members or even neighbors with stray bullets. Give me a pump or semi auto shotgun, a revolver or a semi auto pistol.

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
81. Ummmmm....no
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:34 PM
Jun 2016

An AR15 is an excellent home defense weapon. Rifles in general are easier to control and aim than handguns and thus less likely to have an issue with stray rounds. They are compact enough to use in close quarters, and due to the frangible nature of the bullets coupled with high velocity they are less likely to overpenetrate walls than most pistol rounds, or a shotgun loaded with even #6 birdshot. Personally, it is my weapon of choice for home defense.

doc03

(35,321 posts)
91. I hope you don't kill one of your family in the next room or your next door neighbor.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:30 PM
Jun 2016

You don't need a gun designed for 200 yards or aim at 10 feet and they make shotguns with short barrels designed for close quarters.
Who would use #6 birdshot for home defense and they also make that type of ammo for a pistol. You know the most feared sound for a home invader is the simple sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round. Of course I guess 20 people are going to conspire to rob you in that case an AR-15 would be OK. I really don't think I will have to fight off an army or the zombie apocalypse.

 

Just reading posts

(688 posts)
94. Shotgun vs Semiauto carbine for home defense aside, do not use birdshot for defensive purposes.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:53 PM
Jun 2016

Its stopping power is extremely limited out of a shotgun (it only inflicts a shallow surface wound), and it's utterly useless when fired out of a handgun (a "snake shot" load).

 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
153. To say "it only inflicts a shallow surface wound" is incredibly ignorant.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 02:39 PM
Jul 2016

A shotgun will deliver a very lethal wound even if fired by someone without training. A shotgun will drop a person at 50 feet or more without any problems. Bone can be a problem for a shotgun if from a distance, but soft tissue is not. Unless the home is huge, then a shotgun is more effective and less likely to kill your neighbor as the shot goes through the walls of the houses, like it would from an AR type weapon. When one of my brothers was 12 and rabbit hunting, his friend dropped his loaded shotgun. The buckshot hit my brother that was about 75 feet away. Unless for the heavy coat my brother was wearing, the buckshot would have been much more than what it was in his skin. An ER doctor had to dig it out of his back. Some of the wounds required stitches. Shallow surface wound indeed.

 

Just reading posts

(688 posts)
155. Did you not notice that I was speaking of birdshot?
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 04:01 PM
Jul 2016

Buckshot out of a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun is extremely effective at close range....say, 40 yards or less. Birdshot is a terrible choice for self defense.

I can provide link after link demonstrating birdshot's lack of penetration if need be.


pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
160. I see it differently.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:07 PM
Jul 2016

To fail to recognize the massive difference between birdshot and buckshot is incredibly ignorant.

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
99. I agree with you on almost everything else
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 03:22 AM
Jun 2016

But I don't see an AR-15 as a good home defense weapon. It's too long for easy handling in middle of the night situations when you're coming out of a deep sleep. I see a similar problem with actually readying it for use, for almost all owners. There's a huge familiarity curve to overcome before I would consider owners to be proficient with the average AR-15.

I currently have a good old pump shotgun with #2 shot. These loads will lose a vast majority of energy after passing through a single wall, but they will tear a hole right through 1/2 inch plywood with no problem. Besides, the sound of a pump being racked is pretty much universal - a BG on the other side of a bedroom door that hears that is probably going to reconsider his life choices before opening that door.

If I didn't have grand-kids that visited us on a regular basis, I would put either my Ruger GP100 in .357, or SP101 in .327, in the drawer of the night stand. Nothing beats reliability like a wheel gun. No jams, no failures to eject or feed, and if you have a misfire, just pull the trigger again. But, they're too easy for a child, even a 5- or 6-year old, to fire. Instead, my Mossberg 590 pump shotgun sits by the bed, 5 in the magazine and none in the chamber, with the safety on. Since either my wife or I is in the bedroom at all times when the kids are visiting, that should be enough to prevent ADs. As they get older and stronger (and thus more able to chamber a shot-shell), that will probably change to a revolver in a biometric safe.

And if anyone wonders why I have a gun by my bed, We had neighbors on one side who had a young relative that was a banger wannabe, and their house got shot up. On the other side, the former renters had SWAT pay a visit shortly before they were forcibly evicted. The new renters look more civilized, but looks ain't everything. Finally, there have been a rash of car break-ins in our area the past month or so. Based on some of the people I knew in my youth, if they're druggies and they run out of easy pickings, home invasions are a logical next step. They're already occurring in some areas of Las Vegas on a fairly regular basis...

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
122. An AR 15..
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:44 PM
Jun 2016

..with a 16 or 18" barrel is pretty compact and easy to handle in tight quarters. Safe and effective use of any defensive firearm requires that you be familiar and well practiced with it, and I am. Carried the M16 A1 in the Army, and have owned civilian AR's ever since.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
127. So, you van always called your local Law Enforcement.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:56 PM
Jun 2016

I am sure they will be more than willing to protect you.
That way you can dispose of your evil firearms and wash the blood from your hands.

Just in case I need it again.

Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #99)

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
90. Lots of misconceptions there.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:28 PM
Jun 2016

Of all the guns you list, the AR-15 holds the most rounds and penetrates the fewest walls. Great for hunkering down in a room.

While room clearing is best done as a team sport, if I need to do so, I will be using a pistol so that I have a free hand for controlling any other Good Guys in the house.

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #49)

MFM008

(19,803 posts)
46. This is the same nra bull we always hear
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:13 PM
Jun 2016

and one day it WILL change.
Shooting hogs... ROFLMFAO, Those are elephant/rhino poaching weapons.
Some dumb asses wont be happy till they have a tank and a nuke.

 

RME_SFC

(27 posts)
141. Well....
Tue Jun 28, 2016, 03:34 PM
Jun 2016

I think that an AK-15 Urban Assault Combat Weapon of War and Mass Destruction would be very effective against rhinos and elephants. Well...provided of course, it has the "shoulder thingy that goes up," without that death dealing attachment though, all bets are off. Although, I have heard that with the magical bullet button clip enhancer, your ammo stores are refilled each time you press it... maybe the unlimited ammo cheat that this "feature" (loophole exploit) allows will actually increase the effectiveness of the incredibly small bore and at most moderately powered round.

Of course... if one were to have the bullet button, shoulder thingy that goes up as well as any one of the following... pistol grip, removable hand guard things, the uber silencing flash suppressor... well that would make one nigh indestructible.

Add that evil bayonet lug... Which (I've read on some secret AK-15 forums that give you the cheat codes to unlock all the super evil functions and accessories [but only to "anxious white males] ) will rapid fire bayonets AND lugs at innocent people (only innocent people though) from the from the silencer tip , excluding the 4:30-7:30 clock position zone. When using this feature, please be sure to adjust for daylight savings time; it could get messy.

We all know, however, that all these enhancements and features are useless if they are made from wood and stained in traditional "hunting rifle" finish.

That does lead us to our next topic though... Sniper rifles... camouflaged as hunting rifles. The deadly effects of optics on rate of fire and trajectory, that allows the layman who has never filed any (sniper) rifle to suddenly pick off innocents at distances of up to 3 miles.

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
53. Ummmm...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:58 PM
Jun 2016

Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:50 PM - Edit history (1)

The standard cartridge fired by the AR 15 is the 5.56 NATO round, which fires a high velocity .22 caliber bullet. In most states, it is not legal to use for deer hunting because...IT ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH to ensure a quick and humane kill. Grandpa's old 30-30 lever action fires a much more powerful round than the typical AR 15. Forget even trying to hunt elephant and rhino with one, all you'd accomplish is pissing it off before it stomped you into goo.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
75. He was a fantastic shot.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:38 PM
Jun 2016

The shot was made aiming at the ear hole of an elephant from a range of 30yards or less. The full metal jacketed bullet would penetrate the skull and hit the brain. The angle must be precise or the beast will only get a massive headache.

This form of hunting is now illegal, as it is extremely dangerous.

 

Just reading posts

(688 posts)
96. I have a couple of them. One is a semiautomatic rifle, the AG-42 Ljungman.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:12 AM
Jun 2016


Interesting rifle. Ten shot magazine which, while technically detachable, was only supposed to be removed for cleaning. It was normally reloaded via stripper clips.

My other Swedish rifle is a sporterized Model 96. While as a collector I normally despise sporterization, this one caught me eye at a gun show. It's been cut down to resemble an 1894 Carbine, with a Mannlicher-style stock and an adjustable trigger. It was priced to sell, so I grabbed it on impulse.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
100. He used a .276 Rigby which is the English version of the 6.5 S.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:59 AM
Jun 2016

It was easier to get than the Swedish caliber.

 

Just reading posts

(688 posts)
57. The AR-15....21st Century elephant rifle!
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:31 PM
Jun 2016

Move over, .460 Weatherby Magnum. There's a new sheriff in town!



 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
76. Its illegal to shoot a deer with an AR-15 here
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:47 PM
Jun 2016

Its not powerful enough.

Im not going to piss of an elephant or rhino with one.

 

Just reading posts

(688 posts)
78. Presuming it's chambered for 5.56mm, yes. It would be perfectly legal and appropriate were it
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:00 PM
Jun 2016

chambered for a somewhat more powerful round such as 6.5 SPC or .300 Blackout.

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
83. AR's are perfectly legal to hunt with...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:37 PM
Jun 2016

...provided it is chambered for a round that is legal. I have one in 6.8 SPC that has become my go-to deer rifle as well as an AR 10 in 7mm-08 that I would not hesitate to use on elk.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
50. Oh, why didn't you say so earlier
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:35 PM
Jun 2016

Varmint control. Sure, I get it. It makes a great squirrel gun. And who wouldn't want to obliterate those foxes that you'll never see.

500 pound feral hogs. Okay. Seems reasonable. Because I've read about the rampant 500 pound feral hog scourge.

Urban combat. Say no more. Works for me, as long as you live in fantasy land, or Chicago. Have I missed the Time Magazine articles about the urban combat threat sweeping the country.

Modularity. I get this, too. Things like caliber options, recoil, range, weight, length, hold, grip, and on and on are undoubtedly very important to people with small dicks and smaller brains.

Sorry, folks, but you're full of shit.

Straw Man

(6,622 posts)
66. Full of what?
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:02 PM
Jun 2016
500 pound feral hogs. Okay. Seems reasonable. Because I've read about the rampant 500 pound feral hog scourge.

...

Sorry, folks, but you're full of shit.

Read and learn:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/a-plague-of-pigs-in-texas-73769069

matt819

(10,749 posts)
74. Interesting
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:31 PM
Jun 2016

Nothing in the article about assault rifles. Sounds like it's a frustrating problem in spots and that responsible agencies and hunters are dealing with it as best they can. No reference I saw in a quick read about assault weapons.

Straw Man

(6,622 posts)
97. Yes.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:46 AM
Jun 2016
Nothing in the article about assault rifles. Sounds like it's a frustrating problem in spots and that responsible agencies and hunters are dealing with it as best they can. No reference I saw in a quick read about assault weapons.

Google "hog hunting with an AR." You'll get plenty of results. Consensus is that the standard 5.56/.223 is a bit underpowered, but that larger caliber offerings in the same platform are ideal.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hog+hunting+with+an+AR


A better choice is an AK-style rifle: larger, harder-hitting round:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hog+hunting+with+an+AK


Then there's this:

http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear-accessories/feral-firepower-best-hog-hunting-guns-2015/

Five of the twelve they pick are "assault" weapons.
 

RME_SFC

(27 posts)
142. Did you not insinuate that feral hogs
Tue Jun 28, 2016, 04:33 PM
Jun 2016

are not an issue? The article that was linked demonstrated that hogs are in fact a problem.

Buzz cook

(2,471 posts)
79. They are fun to shoot. Any other reason is
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:19 PM
Jun 2016

baloney.

For the price of a new AR-15 you can buy at least two used rifles that will kill all the non-human animals you want in North America and punch holes in paper just fine.

Including urban combat is just insulting.

As far as our friend bring up "battle" rifles that are 80 years and older; how many Tommies carrying a .303 Enfield wouldn't be delighted to swap it for an AR-15? How many GIs would have rather had a light semi auto instead of a Garand?

And so on.

I appreciate the post with the video of shooting the Garand. Now go search youtube for rapid fire AR-15 to get a comparison. Might as well search for Lee-Enfield mad minute as well.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
88. AR's are down to 550. Used CVA break actions run 190 bucks.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:05 PM
Jun 2016

That being said you are right, they're a load of fun to shoot. I'm hoping to pick up a 300blk upper for close in deer hunting this fall, give the BAR and M100 a break.

beergood

(470 posts)
147. Taibo
Wed Jun 29, 2016, 10:52 PM
Jun 2016

that means white man?

not a surprise, just about everyone on the res. not far from my town owns a firearm. they know not to trust whitey.

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
148. Yeah.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:23 AM
Jun 2016

More or less literally it means "devil" or "bad spirit" but that's what we call the white man, heheh.

beergood

(470 posts)
157. did you ever watch Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls?
Sat Jul 2, 2016, 01:17 AM
Jul 2016

there's a scene where Jim Carrey is referred to as "white devil"

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
98. I bought one years ago, didn't use it
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:59 AM
Jun 2016

I sold it after Sandy Hook for more than I paid for it.

I bought another one about 3 months ago, it was a partial assembly required (stripped lower and assembled upper). It's strictly a range gun - I haven't shot a living creature for more than 30 years, and I have no intention of ever doing it again.

There are several things I really like about this weapon:
1. It is an inherently simple design - an amateur DIY'er like me can tear down and re-assemble it very easily.
2. There's a huge market of aftermarket parts, and customizing it is very easy. (Which in itself is extremely appealing to my inner tinkerer...)
3. It's a lot of fun to shoot, and not too bad as far as accuracy.

And, though I know it's childish, the mere fact that I have one is bound to piss someone off, somewhere...

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
138. Solid article.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 11:43 PM
Jun 2016

Saving the link to share this with my fellow left-leaning friends who lack the prejudice to appreciate it.

Edited to add: Also love this article for it's reason-based footing -- the fact that it confronts the pro-restriction lie that gun rights is a position professed solely by the wing-nut political right.

Response to Puha Ekapi (Original post)

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
169. You have an odd definition of cowardice.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:39 PM
Jul 2016

I view a coward as someone who spews bile and dishonest talking points, and persons who believe "Because I say so" is a valid argument.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
170. IMHO one sign of a coward might be...
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 03:47 PM
Jul 2016

...one who fails to defend, explain or clarify their opinions...
...or even respond at all...
...
...even on an anonymous internet message board.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
172. Another example of cowardice........
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 01:04 PM
Jul 2016

Upon discovering that multiple liberal criminologists don't buy the 'more guns = more violence' argument you would think that a person of character and courage would pause, and check their biases. Are Controllers capable of displaying such integrity and courage? Not on your life.
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