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Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:43 PM

 

About those "weapons of war"...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all semi-automatic weapons which are based on fully automatic/burst design, required by law to be designed substantially different than the actual weapons of war themselves, so that they can not be easily converted to fire full auto/burst?

Designed specifically for the civilian market, in other words?

Doesn't that show as false, the 'weapons of war' talking point, and the 'easily converted' talking point, and the 'designed to hunt humans/take lives quickly/etc' arguments?


Discuss.

45 replies, 3055 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply About those "weapons of war"... (Original post)
beevul Jun 2016 OP
scscholar Jun 2016 #1
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #2
Straw Man Jun 2016 #3
sarisataka Jun 2016 #5
Press Virginia Jun 2016 #6
oneshooter Jun 2016 #12
Press Virginia Jun 2016 #14
oneshooter Jun 2016 #36
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #9
scscholar Jun 2016 #11
Press Virginia Jun 2016 #15
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #17
scscholar Jun 2016 #18
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #19
scscholar Jun 2016 #20
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #21
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #24
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #26
Press Virginia Jun 2016 #28
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #29
Press Virginia Jun 2016 #27
Straw Man Jun 2016 #35
DonP Jun 2016 #38
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #41
Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #39
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #44
RME_SFC Jun 2016 #45
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #22
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #23
jtx Jun 2016 #30
LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #37
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #43
sarisataka Jun 2016 #33
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #34
catnhatnh Jun 2016 #13
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #25
TeddyR Jun 2016 #31
DustyJoe Jun 2016 #4
Press Virginia Jun 2016 #7
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #10
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #8
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #16
shadowrider Jun 2016 #42
ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #32
benEzra Jun 2016 #40

Response to beevul (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:57 PM

1. If you can convert something to full-auto just by filing down the firing pin...

 

then that isn't enough of a difference to matter.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:02 PM

2. What guns can be converted in that manner? Specifics, please.

 

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:05 PM

3. Except that you can't.

A conversion is much more complicated than that, and in any case, it's illegal.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:08 PM

5. substantially

def: to a large degree:
Serious crime is down substantially.
(Definition of substantially from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary Cambridge University Press)


If something can be changed with a file and a few minutes, that would not be substantial.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:18 PM

6. You'd be right if it could be done. Pre-ban weapons all you needed was a drop in sear pin

 

since 1994 the lowers have been produced so you can't do that.

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Response to Press Virginia (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:01 PM

12. I believe that it is closer to 1975. n/t

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:27 PM

14. Nope. Father in law has a pre-ban and a drop in

 

he bought it right after the bill passed

And it's patterned after the A2 which was in service in the late 80's and early 90's

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Response to Press Virginia (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 08:08 AM

36. I have three A1's from 1968 that I inhereted from my Dad.

After he died I was visited by the ATF. Seems that they had been going over some older Colt records looking for the owners of early AR's. The early Colts were all made on one production line, receivers for semi autos were simply pulled from the full auto line and had a semi FCG installed. Full auto BCG were used.
Since they were built before the law changed I was permitted to register them and get tax stamps.
So now I have three semi auto/full autos. They are, at this time, safe queens.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:51 PM

9. File the firing pin, lol

 

Bet you read that on the internet

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:57 PM

11. I also heard that from someone that fought in Viet Nam and in Grenada

 

He would know.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:27 PM

15. Evidently he doesn't know what makes the bang stick

 

go bang

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Response to scscholar (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:09 PM

17. that is a nice story

 

do you know what a firing pin does?

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:11 PM

18. There's over 200,000 results on Google for...

 

"auto filing down the firing pin" It obviously does something.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:19 PM

19. Post one that says it works with proof, lol

 

Go ahead, file one down and have your doorstep.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:30 PM

20. So you're claiming over 200,000 results are wrong

 

Go any evidence to prove your side?

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:37 PM

21. 200,000 is a lot of posts confirming it will not work.

 

200,000 posts saying that filing down a firing pin is idiotic and will never work except to make a weapon misfire or more likely not fire at all.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:23 PM

24. I read a few

You can also find some with the key words "sarcastic" and "joke" along with ideas like load the bullets in the magazine backwards and use wd40 to make them extra fast.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:26 PM

26. I heard spraying teflon on the bullets makes them armor piercing!

 

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:28 PM

28. If you dip the tips in hot sauce

 

The target will burst into flames

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Response to Press Virginia (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:32 PM

29. I'm just glad I'm not reading this while drinking

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:27 PM

27. Just find one. With 200,000 leads it should be easy

 

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 02:10 AM

35. Wrong results.

So you're claiming over 200,000 results are wrong

Go any evidence to prove your side?

I got 726,000 hits on "Donald Trump is a woman." Can they all be wrong?

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:53 AM

38. This is why no one takes gun control people seriously

 

Your "font of knowledge" on firearms is a quick Google search with no discretionary screening.

Google "Dragons" or "Faeries" and you'll also get a few hundred thousand people claiming they exist today.

Your "friend of a friend's" story is pure BS. The firing pin in an AR15 is a free floating alloy pin that rides in the bolt and bolt carrier and relies on the Fire Control Group for it's action, e.g. single shot, burst or full auto.

(Pssst, many of the the people in this group are real former military with combat MOS designations. So think before you try and pull the "I know a military expert" card)

By simple design and physics, anything you do to the firing pin has no effect on the type or rate of fire. That comes from the fire control group.

All "filing" can do is make it too short to strike the primer, soooo no bang at all.

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Response to DonP (Reply #38)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:36 AM

41. Well, to be honest...

...filing down the firing pin could definitely have an effect on rate of fire, from one round every pull of the trigger to ZERO rounds every pull.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:26 AM

39. Yup

You aren't going to do jack squat by filing the firing pin except to make your firearm non-functional.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 27, 2016, 11:06 AM

44. "Phony Beatlemania:" Promo guy buys 10 records/shop resulting in a "HIT!"

 

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Response to scscholar (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 06:00 PM

45. I filed down my firing pen.

 

I can write really fast with it now. Someone told me that I didn't have a "pen" that it was actually a pencil... which explained why it ignited rather than melted... and the filing at the end made it easier to write with.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:57 PM

22. I just Googled "how to cast real magic spells that work". There were over 600,000 results.

 

It obviously does something....time to break out my old 1st Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook!

How long do you think it will take me to get to 18th level so I can cast 9th level spells?

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:22 PM

23. Google fake gun stories, lol

 

About 985,000 results.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #18)


Response to scscholar (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:23 AM

37. There's over 217,000 results on Google for "moon landing was faked"

I guess that proves it.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 27, 2016, 11:00 AM

43. Pre-Inet, but: Millions of Texas boys sez you can pick up a girl with a 6-pack of Lone Star.

 

Really. The hydraulics is amazin'.

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Response to scscholar (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:49 PM

33. Was he a

Submarine tail gunner?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:51 PM

34. That was a hoot

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:05 PM

13. If you file down the firing pin...

you convert it into a non-working wall hanging. Please don't pretend to knowledge you lack....

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Response to catnhatnh (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:24 PM

25. Incorrect....

...the interwebs tell me that it morphs into a gun-shaped doorstop.




ETA: Look down........ See.......

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Response to scscholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:36 PM

31. Please identify any example

 

Of someone filing down a firing pin to convert a weapon to full auto and committing a crime with that weapon in the US. Otherwise this is a theoretical argument.

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Response to beevul (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:07 PM

4. firing pin ?

You file that down and you have created a gun shaped door stop

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Response to DustyJoe (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:19 PM

7. Shhhh! Gun grabbers are telling us about guns

 

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Response to Press Virginia (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:52 PM

10. Yes, they are so proud of that knowledge

 

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Response to beevul (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:49 PM

8. Yes

 

My bolt action rifles are more a weapon of war than my AR-15 pattern rifles.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:57 PM

16. Exactly right. This is a weapon of war:

 



This is not:

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:50 PM

42. The one on the bottom scary.

Take it away.

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Response to beevul (Original post)

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:40 PM

32. Exactly right.

If the gun can be "easily converted" to full-auto, it cannot be marketed in the USA.

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Response to beevul (Original post)

Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:13 AM

40. If a gun is easily converted to full auto, it is considered a machinegun under Federal law

even if not actually converted. That's why there are no civilian semiautos that fire from an open bolt.

The civilian AK, civilian AR-15, etc. do indeed have internal differences from the restricted military/government select-fire models that make them as difficult to convert as any other civilian semiauto.

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