Second Amendment Foundation and Brady Campaign files Amicus Curiae in Embody v Ward 11-5963 6th Cir

[kwikrnu]

Brady amicus curiae in embody v ward 11-5963 6th circuit CA (12-19-11)
[url]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4xDZlk5vthcY2E4YmVlOWUtMDM5MC00ZmRkLWEzZjgtN2U3MDU0OTE5NDRj[/url]

SAF amicus curaie in embody v ward 11-5963 6th circuit CA (12-5-11)
[url]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4xDZlk5vthcODdkNmEzZWMtYTFkYi00ZWZmLTg3ZDYtZTY4OWQ0Yzk2NzZm[/url]

[slackmaster]

1. LOL @ The littany of lies starting on page 16 of the brief

Same old shit.

[DanTex]

2. I'd say the lies start on page 2.

Right about the part where SAF claims that an "AK-47 (is) an arm in common use today for traditional lawful purposes." LOL indeed.

Reminds me of the NRA scene from Distinguished Gentleman.. "nothin like a nice warm Uzi!"

[Remmah2]

3. Now that's a great example of hyperbole. nt

nt

[We_Have_A_Problem]

4. The semi-auto AK design...

...is quite a common firearm for a variety of very lawful purposes. It is an effective medium range hunting rifle for small to medium game, it is a great target gun, it is a nice cheap gun for just fun shooting.

Sorry you're unaware of these facts but that makes them no less true.

[SteveW]

5. You're wrong. "AK-47 IS an arm in common use for...lawful purposes"...

The AK-47 and also the AR-15 platforms are indeed in common use today for traditional lawful purposes.

Sales of this class of weapon are approaching 20,000,000, making it the most popular center-fire rifle type in the U.S. in terms of sales. The AK has been and is in use as a hunting weapon; using a .30 caliber cartridge, with appropriate expansion characteristics, it makes a good short-range deer rifle on a par with the old .30-30. The AR-15, once only configured in the small .223 caliber, are now chambered in .308, .260, and other deer-sized cartridges. (Dan, you can purchase a Remington AR-15 platformed rifle at Academy.)
This, to say nothing of its utility as a target rifle (cheap ammunition in the original chamberings, and low recoil), and as a suitable home defense weapon.

Thugs and HyperPunks don't have much use for them, however: Less than 3% of gun-homicides in the U.S. are committed using a rifle, of which the ARs and AKs, are but one type.

This information is well-known, and I am surprised you did not catch it some years ago.

[Hoyt]

8. Might be "popular" among the "gun culture" for all the wrong reasons.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

9. And what are those reasons, Hoyt?

I mean, speaking of the AK-47 designs at least, I cannot imagine why someone would like a gun that is reasonably accurate, reliable as a brick, easy to maintain, cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, and just a great all around firearm.

In the case of an AR-15, many people in this country are ex-military. I cannot POSSIBLY wonder why they might want to shoot a rifle which is very similar to the one they would have used while serving their country, especially when it is such a fine weapon to begin with.

[Hoyt]

10. You can get that without the military/intimidating looks -- which is what I think gunners like.

It gets their hormones flowing.

Yea, I can't image why x-military would want to shoot the semi-auto version of guns they used to lay down a barrage overseas. Not.

My best friend is an x-Marine, and he won't allow a gun anywhere near his house.

Besides, what exactly makes you think you need such a weapon in this country. Do you need a semi-auto to shoot a deer? Try a bow, or black powder.

Now, here's what I really don't get -- someone who has a bunch of the things.

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. Your parochialism is showing. Lots of WWII vets hunted with M1 Garand rifles after the war

And I daresay that Guadalcanal or Sicily weren't a bit less traumatic for those that were there than Dak To, Fallujah or Helmand were...

[Hoyt]

12. I've shot a Garand -- but it wasn't designed to produce drools from potential buyers.

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Neither were the AR or AK platforms- but why let fact interfere with faith promoting rumor?

After all, accuracy was optional for the likes of Harry J. Anslinger and Fredric Wertham, and just look at what they accomplished!

[Hoyt]

19. Thats why most people buy them -- the drool factor. For fun, go to a gun store and look at the

Last edited Sat Dec 24, 2011, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)

guys drooling all over the counter. Plenty of guns are accurate, yet not meant to look like a tactical weapon that attracts today's buyers.

[ObamaFTW2012]

22. What's your point?

What exactly are you trying to argue? So far, you've declared or inferred (incorrectly) that guns are designed and marketed based on their ability to make potential buyers drool, that your anecdotal "x-Marine" friend's choice to keep no guns in his home is somehow a great act that should compel lesser people (as in "civilians&quot to follow suit, and that gun buyers should demonstrate a need to buy guns that have a certain appearance that you find menacing.

Your posts are really nothing more than emotional, illogical rants and ignorant jabs at people who exercise a right that you don't like. Very predictable, boring, unimaginative, and without any understanding of the difference between a need and a right.

[Hoyt]

23. If people are attracted to guns for their sex appeal, intimidation factor, etc., should those folks

really be deemed safe to own one -- much less a bunch, or to carry them in public. I think not.

Your posts are simply a product of your "gun culture" fear of having to leave home without a gun or two strapped to your body to ward off some imagined/irrational threat.

[ObamaFTW2012]

36. Why does that matter?

What difference does it make why a particular person chooses to buy a particular firearm, as long as that person doesn't use it for illegal activities? I would be a bit concerned if I observed someone buying a firearm "for sex appeal" or "intimidation factor", but never in my life have I witnessed such a transaction, nor heard anyone ever suggest they would buy a gun on either basis.

[PavePusher]

25. Oh, so it's only

modern military-style rifles that are marketed to our "baser instincts".

Because when Eugene Stoner was designing the AR platform, the first criteria was "What will start a new gun fetish".... And when Mikhail Kalashnikov was trying to invent a better weapon for to help keep conscript soldiers alive, he was concerned about their sexual potency...



I'd ask if you were high again, but since that has been pointedly declared inflamatory, I must merely assume that you are. After all, any other assumption puts you in a much worse position.

[Hoyt]

28. We're talking guns manufactured and marketed to the American domestic market (gun lovers).

[PavePusher]

29. Dodge. Put the goal-posts down. n/t

[ellisonz]

16. This is true.

But how many went duck hunting with a Thompson sub-machine gun?

[pipoman]

17. Thompson machine guns

were available through the Sears catalog or from any hardware store until 1934....cash & carry.

[pipoman]

14. Really? Your best friend huh?

Anyone who refers to a Marine as an "x-Marine" don't know any Marines.

[Hoyt]

20. The poster used the term "x-military," I responded. My friend hates guns for obvious reasons.

Lots of military folks do too. It may be hard for you to believe, because you're invested in and attracted to guns, but it's true.

[PavePusher]

24. OMG, are you saying I bought my Mauser for it's sexiness?

WTF is wrong with you?

[Hoyt]

26. I don't think a Mauser would go over very well with today's gun lovers.

Come on, tell us the truth -- you have a few of those popular tricked out "assault/tactical" models to keep you warm at night.

[spin]

35. I own a Swedish Mauser because it is a strong, reliable and accurate bolt action rifle...

I might use it for hunting in the future as it is more than adequate for game in Florida. (This may have to wait until I finally decide to have a hip replacement.)

Currently I do not own any "tricked out "assault/tactical" rifles but I can see how an AR-10 might be a great firearm for hunting feral hog which are considered a pest in Florida.

I'm wondering just how you feel any rifle would keep an individual warm at night. Sometimes your fantasies about gun owners amaze me.

[SteveW]

37. Hoyt, perhaps some 20,000,000 own semi-auto carbines...

How do you ever find the time to determine 20,000,000 reasons, let along categorize them as "wrong?"

[PavePusher]

6. Surely you can cite to something... non-fictional? n/t

[ellisonz]

15. Priceless.

"They like a nice warm Uzi."

You should post that in the Video forum...

[ObamaFTW2012]

7. Isn't this the case

where a guy open carried a large revolver, and when it failed to gain the attention of law enforcement, he stepped up to an AK47 pistol on a sling? If I remember correctly, he went so far as to paint the muzzle orange, for no other reason that I can see than to make people (probably law enforcement) assume the weapon is an airsoft toy, rather than a real firearm.

That guy, if it is who I think it is, is a real nutjob. He is known around the gun forums online as a weirdo who thinks he's some sort of martyr for gun rights, who in reality couldn't be a better show pony for the anti-gun crowd to trot out when arguing against open carry, AK47's, and mentally ill gun owners.

What a shame. I really hoped he would fade away into obscurity before doing any more damage to the gun rights cause.

[Deejai]

13. AK's and hunting.

The AK is probably the most widely used hunting arm in world. Lots of Russian hunters use the AK in "sporting configuration" such as the Saiga or Vepr rifles. The 7.62x39 AK round is more appropriate for deer sized game than a .223.

Also don't forget how wide spread the SKS's popularity is in America. Theres probably alot of hunters now that've grown up hunting with the sks the same way older hunters grew up with the lever action.

I like a challenge as much as the next guy, but I'm not into blackpowder and my archery skills are nonexistent. Part of being an ethical hunter is to put down your game cleanly and quickly, which necessitates the use of a firearm for most people.

[Hoyt]

21. Certain guns are popular because they appeal to owners baser instincts and desires.

Just read some of the marketing material.

"Ethical" -- now that is funny.

[Pacafishmate]

30. Weak argument...

So you think that black guns are bad because " they make buyers drool". How are shiny guns any different from fancy cars? Let's assume that both are made to attract buyers. What does that have to do with anything? I think you have an issue with the entire idea of firearms ownership, but because it's no longer cool to call for a complete ban, you just move to the next best thing. I never did get wanting to ban firearms based on features. A hunting rifle kills just as effectively, if not more due to the larger caliber, as any black rifle. Trying to make black rifles an issue is purely emotional and not grounded with real thought.

[Hoyt]

31. You don't get it -- people attracted to such things have problems that should preclude carrying

. . . . . . and perhaps purchase. They ain't thinking rationally. You might be, unfortunately rational gun owners seem to be in the minority (especially since the majority of gun owners are right wing).

[gejohnston]

33. I don't think the latter is true either

the majority being right wing. A plurality may be conservative (but most likely a silent middle of the road), but I doubt right wing. There is a difference.

[PavePusher]

34. "people attracted to such things"

Like efficiency, ergonomics, modularity (to adapt to multiple purposes), accuracy, reliability, ease of repair.....

All things to be scorned when they appeal to... well... anyone really. "Irrational" the lot of 'em.



What "problems" hoyt? Seeing as how you seem to have free reign to cast slander and insinuation as you please...

[PavePusher]

27. Notice how hoyt can never support his claims with citations. hmmmm..... n/t

[Hoyt]

32. How many of your claims can you support with citations that actually mean

what you think it means or takes into account the right issues? -- ZERO.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. And what does "takes into account the right issues" mean, exactly?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Hoyt]

39. Not NRA, right wing propaganda.

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. Then what? Be specific.

[tortoise1956]

41. Nice try

There you go, covering your lack of corroborating material with a "Burden of Proof" fallacy, coupled with an Ad Hominem attack. At least you make it clear that you have no concrete evidence to justify your incoherent arguments...