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Fri May 5, 2017, 09:49 AM

'Hero' stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say

'Hero' stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say

A concealed carry holder is being heralded as a hero by Arlington police for preventing mass murder by killing an "incoherent" gunman at a sports bar Wednesday evening.

Before he was shot about 6:15 p.m., the gunman killed the manager of Zona Caliente in the 6500 block of South Cooper Street, police spokesman Christopher Cook said.

Police later identified the gunman as 48-year-old James Jones of Grand Prairie and the victim as 37-year-old Cesar Perez of Duncanville. The man who killed Jones has not been identified.

Authorities later found two loaded guns and two knives on Jones, Cook said Thursday.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2017/05/03/two-people-killed-third-wounded-arlington-restaurant-shooting-reports-say

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Reply 'Hero' stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say (Original post)
sarisataka May 2017 OP
Ligyron May 2017 #1
Get Off Of My Cloud May 2017 #2
riversedge May 2017 #3
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2017 #4
sarisataka May 2017 #5
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2017 #6
oneshooter May 2017 #7
EX500rider May 2017 #9
S_B_Jackson May 2017 #10
spin May 2017 #11
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2017 #15
spin May 2017 #18
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2017 #19
krispos42 May 2017 #8
jimmy the one May 2017 #12
yagotme May 2017 #13
jimmy the one May 2017 #16
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2017 #17
yagotme May 2017 #20
hack89 May 2017 #14

Response to sarisataka (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:52 AM

1. There are a few instances where this is true.

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Response to sarisataka (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:53 AM

2. Screw the "hero" bs

 

This is why we need laws against guns in bars

Fire arms and booze don't mix

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:00 AM

3. Very true but we know how the NRA will say it is a hero narritive...

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:01 AM

4. That'll work...

...if bars have metal detectors and armed security.

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:30 AM

5. It doesn't appear

That anyone was drinking

'Hero' bs? Is stopping a murderer a bad thing?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #5)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:44 AM

6. Yes but...

...only if you use a gun. A bicycle wheel is a better choice.


Check your local sporting goods for an EDC wheel.

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:00 AM

7. By Texas Law this was not a "bar" it is a restaurant.

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 05:50 PM

9. So your opinion is people who go out to commit murders..

....will respect the "NO GUNS" sign? lol

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:43 AM

10. Legally, it wasn't a bar...

Texas statute defines a bar as an establishment which derives over 51% of it's revenue from the sales of alcohol. It would be posted as such and the carrying of firearms is illegal - even for a permit-holder.

This shooting took place at a restaurant which serves alcohol but derives less than 51% of it's revenue from such.

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Response to Get Off Of My Cloud (Reply #2)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:16 AM

11. Do you seriously believe the shooter would have been deterred by a law ...

that said guns were not allowed in bars? The guy who saved the day in this incident would probably have obeyed the law and the result might well have been a bunch of innocent people injured or killed. People who legally carry concealed usually obey the law.


When Jones entered the business, some witnesses told police, he started yelling incoherently while standing at the bar.

"People didn't know who he was yelling at," Cook said.

Perez was trying to talk to Jones when he was fatally shot. Police do not believe they knew each other.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2017/05/03/two-people-killed-third-wounded-arlington-restaurant-shooting-reports-say


The shooter wasn't sitting around the bar for a couple of hours getting plastered before he ran amok. He just walked in, blew up and started shooting.


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Response to spin (Reply #11)

Sat May 13, 2017, 06:45 AM

15. And there's another question that will never be answered

Last edited Sat May 13, 2017, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

It took that genius 15 days to get him(her)self tombstoned. My take: Laws don't equal control. If they did, we wouldn't need prisons for lawbreakers.

I am getting sick of those who are over-sympathetic to criminals. This society is completely unreasonable in its approach to crime. We make laws which turn victimless actions into crimes. We make laws that can put an addict in prison for longer than a rapist. We make laws that can send a single mom to jail, cause the loss of her job and possibly the custody of her children but let a domestic abuser off with a warning.

We're now seriously over videoed and monitored. A court order is needed to tap a phone call but "stingray" devices are readily available and in use by law enforcement. Why are there incidents of people dying in police custody due to asphyxiation and dehydration? How is reasonable for the federal government to have a problem with states that have legalized marijuana while expecting the cooperation of sanctuary cities?

It is time for everyone to accept that 18 months in a cell won't rebuild a life destroyed by addiction and crime to feed the addiction. Nor will that time in a cell rehabilitate a sexual predator or domestic abuser.

Using the term "control" for a law is a despicable lie to the public.
Militarizing the police is a mistake.
Sending addicts and non-violent criminals to prison is a mistake.
Waging a "war" on drugs using helicopters, attack dogs and SWAT teams when the principle victims are also perpetrators.
The US is morphing from a place of hope into another dead end where the haves take from the have-nots.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #15)

Sat May 13, 2017, 05:47 PM

18. When I was growing up back in the 1950s and 60s I was living in a ...

representative democracy or as some will call it a constitutional republic.

Now it appears I am living in under a form of oligarchy known as a plutocracy.


The term Plutocracy derives from the Greek word ‘Ploutokratia.’ ‘Ploutos’ means “wealth” while ‘kratia’ means “rule or power.” Thus, the full translation of this word is the rule or command by the wealthy. Plutocracy is, therefore, defined as a state, society or government controlled and ruled by the wealthy or a wealthy class. This particular class of people govern a state or society because of their wealth, or rather, their power stems from their wealth. History illustrates that the wealthy class is most often the minority in a society. In essence, it is a small minority ruling or dominating the rest of the classes in society. Interestingly, in a Plutocracy, the wealthy group will exercise control and power either directly or indirectly. Thus, for example, government policies will be formulated in a way that benefits this wealthy group. Further, access to certain resources will only be available to this wealthy class thereby denying the rest of society certain resources and rights. Such a form of government inevitably results in inequality, unfairness, and injustice.
http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-oligarchy-and-vs-plutocracy/


Many of the problems you mentioned above are due to the fact that the "haves" are in charge and the reality is that there really are not many in the "have" catagory anymore but there are an increasing number of "have nots."

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Response to spin (Reply #18)

Sat May 13, 2017, 06:46 PM

19. Advances in society...

...favor the rich. Technology, finance, communications, medicine, entertainment...

As all of these advancements are made, it is the rich who can take best advantage and it is the rich or at least richer who motivate development. Is anyone looking to underwrite curing diseases that affect only the poorest areas of the world?

The cash price for an iphone 7 rivals what I've paid for cars a few years ago. My family's monthly cell bill (4 phones and a tablet) is about the same as my car payment on my last (2001) new car.

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Response to sarisataka (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:03 AM

8. And this will not show up in statistics used for this sort of stuff.

How many lives were potentially saved by this and other incidents like it?

The lesser of the number of people in the bar or the number of rounds of ammo carried by the late Mr. Jones. But this doesn't show up in FBI statistics.

*click*, one more justifiable homicide. That's all that will show up.

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Response to sarisataka (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 11:06 AM

12. hot zone sports bar

spin: The shooter wasn't sitting around the bar for a couple of hours getting plastered before he ran amok. He just walked in, blew up and started shooting.

news report: Police reportedly are investigating whether a {black} gunman was motivated by prejudice when he opened fire at an Arlington {Texas} bar, killing an employee before he was fatally shot by a customer. Although details about James Jones' racist shouting have not been released, police are considering whether they indicate a hate crime was committed at the Zona Caliente Sports Bar, Customers have said it was not clear whom the 48-year-old Grand Prairie man, who was black, was yelling at.
... they are considering whether trauma from Jones' Army service during Desert Storm may have contributed to any psychological problems.
There's been a crisis in this community from a lot of veterans coming back that have to deal with issues and stuff like that," police Lt. .. "We're looking to see if there were any mental health issues going on."
Perez, the slain manager, had been trying to calm the gunman when he was killed. Another person was injured by flying glass while escaping the bar.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2017/05/06/possible-hate-crime-investigated-arlington-bar-shooting-armed-customer-stopped-gunman

krispos: How many lives were potentially saved by this and other incidents like it? The lesser of the number of people in the bar or the number of rounds of ammo carried by the late Mr. Jones.

A bit of a stretch to label this a mass murder nipped in the bud, kris.
Authorities later found two loaded guns and two knives on Jones,.. "We do believe he had the capacity to do much greater harm," Cook said.

Of course he had the 'capacity' to do much greater harm, with even the two knives, but with just 2 loaded guns, presumably handguns, doesn't look like this was a premeditated mass murder plan. Just a suddenly deranged man temporarily losing his mind.

oneshooter: By Texas Law this was not a "bar" it is a restaurant.
Jackson: Legally, it wasn't a bar...

news report: whether .. a hate crime was committed at the Zona Caliente Sports Bar,

Caliente means 'hot', zona = zone, so 'hot zone sports bar' evidently.
https://www.zonacalientearlington.com/

But, proceed to milk it for you can, eh?

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #12)

Wed May 10, 2017, 11:20 AM

13. So, can I get drunk

at a salad bar???

You must have missed the Texas definition of a place of business that qualifies as a "bar" for concealed carry denial. Over 51% of alcohol sales.

"Of course he had the 'capacity' to do much greater harm, with even the two knives, but with just 2 loaded guns, presumably handguns, doesn't look like this was a premeditated mass murder plan. Just a suddenly deranged man temporarily losing his mind."

Walks into a (presumably) crowded establishment, 2 guns and knives, and wasn't planning on mass murder. I'd like to know where you got your psychic analytical degree. I'd like to get one.


"A bit of a stretch to label this a mass murder nipped in the bud, kris."
"But, proceed to milk it for you can, eh?"

Methinks there may be more than one bovine about...

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Response to yagotme (Reply #13)

Sat May 13, 2017, 10:27 AM

16. sports bar, their words not mine

yagotme: You must have missed the Texas definition of a place of business that qualifies as a "bar" for concealed carry denial. Over 51% of alcohol sales.

Nope, didn't miss that. Regardless, the name of the establishment was 'sports bar'. Their words not mine.

yagotme: Walks into a (presumably) crowded establishment, 2 guns and knives, and wasn't planning on mass murder.

Oh please, what a weak argument, were you born yday? I bet several posting gun owners on DU carry 2 concealed guns on them on occasion, one in shoulder holster, one in ankle holster. Some even more, a small derringer in a belt buckle perhaps, as well as a pocket knife or two. Are these people mass murderers in waiting?
The knives should be dismissed as a mass murder weapon in america, since most knife injuries are survivable, and large scale knife deaths are rare.

ARLINGTON The gunman who went into an Arlington sports bar and killed a manager Wednesday came in with two loaded guns and two knives, Arlington police said.. http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/arlington/article148554034.html#storylink=cpy

I presume handguns, wonder what caliber. Go fetch.

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #16)

Sat May 13, 2017, 12:23 PM

17. "Three. One shoulder, one hip and one down here, right next to Mr. Wally...

...though most pat downs never reveal it, cause an agent's often reluctant to feel up another man's groin."
Note: The quote on IMDB is not completely correct.

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #16)

Wed May 17, 2017, 02:30 PM

20. Yes, their words.

Ones which you elaborated on. Thus, my reply to that.

"I bet several posting gun owners on DU carry 2 concealed guns on them on occasion, one in shoulder holster, one in ankle holster. Some even more, a small derringer in a belt buckle perhaps, as well as a pocket knife or two. Are these people mass murderers in waiting?"

Yes, if their intent is to go into a populated area, and start shooting at everybody for no good reason. I carry 1 myself, when I carry. And 1 pocket knife.


Stay. Stay.

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #12)

Fri May 12, 2017, 03:31 PM

14. Seung-Hui Cho "only" had two handguns

seems to me that anyone planning a mass murder couldn't do wrong by copying the most deadly one to date.

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