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Sun Jul 2, 2017, 06:25 PM

I started this in another group and people were having cats. I got my LTC (License to Carry).

I'm no gun nut nor second amendment blowhard. Matter of fact the only reason I got one is because of all the right wing nuts that are running around. With open carry here in Texas it's only a matter of time before something happens.

So I take the course and a child can pass it. There is no need to even know how to handle a gun. You are tested on targets three feet wide and 5 feet long at 1 yard, 5 yards, and 7 yards with 15 shots total. You don't even have to hit the target every time you fire. That's it! There is no proficiency on simply handling a gun, nothing about how to check a gun to make sure it is unloaded, nothing about cleaning a gun and gun safety. You could literally pull a gun out of wrapping paper, they would load it for you, and all you would have to do was point near the target. You don't have to know anything.

In the classroom part there is really very little about laws. They go over once where you are allowed to wear your gun which is just about anywhere except a school, federal building, court, racetrack, airport,or voting booth. They really went over what bars you can carry your gun into. Texas used to have a strict rule, no guns in bars. Now that is changed and they go over and over it exactly what bars you can go into. It's really crazy that they emphasize that.

Now, they devoted exactly TWO sentences, that is TWO with a 2, sentences of how to avoid a shooting situation. The most important thing I would think needed to be stressed the most was less than 30 seconds of classroom time. They then jumped into when you can shoot a person.

The main part of the class was spent trying to sell an insurance policy, Firearms Legal Protection. Over an hour+ was spent telling war stories and telling us how great it is to have this insurance. Also a good bit of time was spent telling stories of how the left wing wants to come get your guns so you need to be ready. Be ready for what? A showdown at the OK ice cream stand?

The last part of the class was going over how many concealed weapons we should carry into various venues like Walmart. He said at least two concealed weapons were needed. Walking downtown required four. It was straight out of bizarroworld. I came out of that class more scared of the gun nuts walking around than I ever have been.

The Concealed Carry or whatever you want to call it is nothing but a charade. There is nothing that makes the carrier any more safe with a gun nor does it make the general public any more safe from those carrying a gun.

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply I started this in another group and people were having cats. I got my LTC (License to Carry). (Original post)
jimmil Jul 2017 OP
samnsara Jul 2017 #1
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2017 #2
jimmil Jul 2017 #3
friendly_iconoclast Jul 2017 #5
jimmil Jul 2017 #12
doc03 Jul 2017 #4
Astroman Jul 2017 #6
jimmil Jul 2017 #18
Paladin Jul 2017 #7
friendly_iconoclast Jul 2017 #10
SQUEE Jul 2017 #8
Hangingon Aug 2017 #25
krispos42 Jul 2017 #9
DashOneBravo Jul 2017 #11
jimmil Jul 2017 #13
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2017 #14
beemer27 Jul 2017 #15
gejohnston Jul 2017 #16
ileus Jul 2017 #17
Alea Jul 2017 #19
pablo_marmol Jul 2017 #22
jimmil Jul 2017 #20
Marengo Aug 2017 #33
yagotme Aug 2017 #34
pablo_marmol Jul 2017 #21
Kang Colby Aug 2017 #23
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2017 #24
AtheistCrusader Aug 2017 #26
jimmil Aug 2017 #27
S_B_Jackson Aug 2017 #28
spin Aug 2017 #29
oneshooter Aug 2017 #30
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2017 #31
spin Aug 2017 #32

Response to jimmil (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 06:40 PM

1. i have had one for years.. I have even participated in Glock..

..shooting competitions. I have a laser on it so I don't miss very often. I also have a Lady Smith and Wesson and a police womans purse with a holster in it. I don't carry at all but I have a permit just in case. And I have really not shot my gun in a long time. I also have a medical marijuana card and now..I have been told.. that if you have a MMJ card you cant get a concealed weapon permit. hmmmmmm. Not sure which one I want to give up ( I live in legal land anyway).

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 06:43 PM

2. It's kind of like a driver's license

Lots of people have 'em but some still drive like rats off a sinking ship.


FWIW, I would ask around to find a reputable training facility. Just because the government approved, doesn't make it okay. IIRC the government "approved" Jared Loughner.
I have a recommendation I can share via DUmail.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:44 PM

3. I have handled guns in the past.

I probably have in the five months in Vietnam than most have in a lifetime. I didn't own a gun for many many years and it wasn't until recently that I purchased one. I do practice on the range and feel comfortable. However, What I originally got a LTC for I could already do, ie. carry a gun in the car when I travel. In Texas it is legal to have a concealed weapon in your car. It is illegal to have an open weapon in your car. I don't get that.

Regardless, I will not take the advice of the instructor and have a weapon in every room ready to rock and roll at all times. And, this guy did not believe in putting guns away when children were present. Nut case...

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Response to jimmil (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 11:09 PM

5. Have you considered joining The Liberal Gun Club?

https://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

Maybe they could help you find a sane group of people to shoot with...

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Response to jimmil (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 02:56 PM

12. Some have asked me only 5 months in Vietnam...

I was very severely wounded and spent months in recovery and rehab. Enough of that. That is almost 50 years ago so lets move past it, OK?

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 10:45 PM

4. My CCW course was a little better than that. But basicly the same the blow hard

instructor telling war stories and such. Oh my instructor is now in Federal prison for mortgage fraud, credit card theft and tax evasion.
In other words a good Republican.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:29 AM

6. point being.............

buy buy buy mo guns!

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Response to Astroman (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 02:35 AM

18. They actually did not stress the buying of more guns.

Yeah, kinda weird. However I have been looking into black powder guns. I have an actual CW rifle that I have been thinking of firing after a thorough inspection as well as a CVA kit I have not completed. I think it would be fun to shoot. Now if I kud find me some of dem damn yankees to shoot at.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:07 AM

7. Thanks for confirming gun control advocates' worst notions of LTC "education." (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:24 PM

10. LTC education (at least in Texas) doesn't seem to be a problem:

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

(tl,dr version- 108 Texas CCW license holder were convicted of felonies in 2015)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=198548

Out of a population of 940,877-that's *1* conviction for every 8711 permitees

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/ActLicAndInstr/ActiveLicandInstr2015.pdf

Active License/Certified Instructor Counts
As of December 31, 2015


Active License Holders:
937,419
Certified Instructors:
3,458

These numbers reflect the number of licensed individuals and certified instructors

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 09:50 AM

8. Now it is on you to train and practice.

Recognizing your lack of training and ability is the first step.
Now get some good training. and a safe.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 8, 2017, 06:14 PM

25. Hasn't it always been?

i just renewed my license for the third time. I am 16 years TX CHL. After I read the OP, I asked guys at the breakfast bunch and guys at the range if they had had this stuff in class. When I showed them the post, there was a lot of laughter. I have never had that stuff in the classes. Should mention that I take. refresher courses between renewals. The training classes I took were first on avoidance. They stressed your liability for shoot any third parties. The laws were well covered. Perhaps something has been lost in recent changes to the law. If so, that us a significant loss. The range test is a demonstration of basic ability. It is not a training session. You should spend lots more time hat the range - it is your life that will riding on your ability if you ever - God forbid - need to use your weapon. I favor training at night or low light conditions. If you have a person in your home illegally - some one you identify as an intruder - you will not have time for stance or sights and it will be close quarters. As for multiple weapons, here in South Texas daily wear is fishing shorts or golf shorts. Pretty hard to conceal one weapon much less 4. That is Ryan get talk or beer call.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 10:07 AM

9. I took a CCP class last year

Had to, in this damn state. After Sandy Hook, they changed the laws so you can't even buy ammo without some kind of permit. So, I went all-in and got a concealed carry permit. I can buy ammo, long guns, hand guns, and carry concealed.

Law of unintended consequences is that I've bought 2 handguns since then, and I go shooting more.


But that's besides the point.

I took my instruction from the father of a co-worker. 8 hours of instruction, including some range time.

It was not about turning me into Rambo, it was about learning how guns work and how to handle them safety.

We were given the NRA Basic Pistol handbook, which was full of useful technical information and very little "join the NRA" stuff... mostly in the conclusion. It was full of pictures and diagrams of revolvers and semiauto pistols, with all the various parts identified and explained. It explained holds, stances, sight pictures, etc.

The instructor had a couple of dozen handguns of various types that he used to illustrate the points made in the book. He also stressed some of the legalities involved and that there is a heavy legal burden attached to any use of guns in self-defense. He pushed us to buy the most recent edition of a book called something like "Self-Defense Law in the 50 States".

The session culminated in demonstrating safe gun handling and a reasonable amount of accuracy at a shooting range.



Real tactical training is something that requires a serious commitment of time and money, something similar to what cops go through. Obviously, a one-time course can't do that. But once the basic safety and handling fundamentals are learned, you don't need to keep this skill set highly honed.


I'm sorry your class sucked. It sounds like it was about as fun as a session listening to Alex Jones.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:42 PM

11. That training sucks

You should notify someone. Maybe the local sheriff or state agency that certifies them.

Ours is done by local law enforcement or private citizens who are certified. 8 hours of classroom and then go to the range. You have to be able to hit the targets so there are retests.

This is one expamle why I think there should be a national standard.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 02:59 PM

13. You are more likely to be shot

by a person with a license to carry than an Islamic terrorists.

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Response to jimmil (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 03:39 PM

14. Good to know

I suggest that anyone with a terrorist conviction be barred from buying a gun or getting a carry permit.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 03:59 PM

15. You got stuck with a lousy instructor.

My CCW class was 18 years ago in Oklahoma. The instructor was a retired cop who had taught police courses. We were taught that if we thought that there was a chance of using our firearms, we should not be going to that place. We were also taught what the legal and actual consequences of using a firearm in a confrontation would be. There was about 5 hours class room, and another 3 hours range time. Any safety infraction was IMMEDIATELY corrected, and, if repeated, cause for ejection from the class. No refund, and no excuses. He got the idea across right away that this was about SAFE gun handling, and that was the only way we were going to pass. There were about 12 of us, and everyone caught on quickly. We were tested on what we had been taught in class, our handling the firearms safely, and our accuracy. It was short range and standard police silhouette targets. We shot for the center mass, and were graded after each course of fire. We each shot 50 rounds . I had had much firearms training before this course, and was impressed by how the instructor had taught the inexperienced and experienced shooters the same rules, and everyone had learned from the course.
Your experience was the exact opposite of mine. My course was professional and well worth the time and money invested. Your course was a big disappointment. You might consider finding a better instructor and taking a good course. It is worth the time, and will make you a safer and better shooter.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:54 PM

16. your class did not meet Texas DPS standards.

The Concealed Carry or whatever you want to call it is nothing but a charade. There is nothing that makes the carrier any more safe with a gun nor does it make the general public any more safe from those carrying a gun.
As a general rule, CCW holders are already "gun geeks", and know more about guns than the average cop, and probably better trained. Look up NYPD "training".

http://www.chlcourse.com/software/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=59

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 10:25 PM

17. No class here, I think I used my Hunters Safety class.

I know my wife had to sit thru 6 or 8 hours of class when she got hers a few years later.



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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 01:59 PM

19. You got ripped off

Gun classes are a business, as such, they get reviews. A little checking of reviews on that class would have told you it was a BS class being run by some lunatic prepper sovereign citizen nutcase. If there was no reviews then you should have found a class that did have positive reviews and was approved by Texas DPS.

Also, getting a carry permit because you're afraid of law abiding citizens, but not crack heads, meth heads, junkies, muggers, car jackers, murderers, thrill killers, gang violence... ok then

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Response to Alea (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 12:35 AM

22. +1,000 NT

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 05:33 PM

20. The class

Is run by a gun range that I am a member of. Since there are no more garbage dumps to go plinking at anymore I had to do something to relearn how to shoot again so I joined the club. It is a very nice range for sure. The one thing I think is weird is everyone who works there walks around with a gun strapped to their waist. Why?

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Response to jimmil (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 29, 2017, 12:03 PM

33. Interesting: "gun strapped to their waist". Where have I heard this before? What's the name...

 

Of this range?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 29, 2017, 07:30 PM

34. I've been in some bigger city gun shops where workers carried,

but no ranges. Maybe to prevent/stop a person that intends to murder someone at the range? Chris Kyle event comes to mind.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 12:34 AM

21. "There is nothing that makes the carrier any more safe........"


That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

"......nor does it make the general public any more safe from those carrying a gun."

Irrelevant -- and by no means do any meaningful number of permit holders make that claim. These are words that are dishonorably stuffed into our mouths. Beyond that, it's the wrong question.......which is "Do those who carry make the general public any *less* safe?" And you'll have a great deal of difficulty proving that, given concealed carry holder stats maintained by Texas and Florida law enforcement.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:02 PM

23. U.S. citizens shouldn't be required to have a permit at all.

The 2nd Amendment is the only permit one should ever need.

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Response to Kang Colby (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:26 PM

24. good to see you around

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Wed Aug 9, 2017, 09:28 AM

26. Best concealed carry training I ever received, was from a Defense Attorney.

He specialized in Self Defense cases, and spent the entire class talking about why you de-escalate, avoid, anything you can, to not have to use that firearm, and what you can expect to endure after the fact, even if you are pure as the driven snow guiltless and had no other choice.

The financial, time, and psychological burden of taking another life, even in a fully justifiable case.

He also spent a lot of time talking about cases where it was fully honest and justifiable, but some little detail turned it into a grueling legal misadventure.


'How to shoot' is a sine qua non to getting a CPL. It is pre-assumed you know what to do with a gun. You don't show up to NASCAR camp at 16 with no drivers license and zero experience behind the wheel.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:55 AM

27. As my old grandmother said about shooting an intruder.....

As Long as he is coming in a window that I'm not going out of I don't see a reason the shoot anyone.

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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:25 AM

28. Your class did not meet the requirements of a Texas CHL course.

The distances are 3 yards (not 1), 7 yards, and 15 years and that course of fire is 50 rounds, not the 15 that you claim. The instructor and RSO are observing your ability to safely handle a firearm during this course and it's never failed in my experience that one or two (usually novices) are removed from the class due to unsafe handling of their firearm during this phase.

As in most things, what one puts into the class defines what one takes out of a class. You put nothing in, ergo you took nothing but nonsense away from it.


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Response to jimmil (Original post)

Sun Aug 27, 2017, 01:45 PM

29. Concealed carry classes vary. Often you get what you pay for. ...

Carrying a lethal weapon is serious business. If you are unfamiliar with handguns but wish to carry one it seems to make sense to get the best instructior you can.

Your instructor does not impress me in the least. I've known instructors who required students to shoot at least 50 rounds at targets placed from arm's length to 24 yards. I've heard of one who was a state prosecutor who emphasized when it was legal to use a firearm for self defense and when it was not. He told the classes he taught that if they failed to follow the law he would be more than happen to prosecute them in court.

A good instructor should also mention situational awareness and stress the importance of avoiding situations where you might find it necessary to use your weapon for self defense. In other words don't walk down dark streets with a cell phone glued to your ear and don't flash a large wad of bills in a bar.

If you go looking for trouble it will find you.

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Response to spin (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 27, 2017, 09:12 PM

30. True. But in Texas the insructors are trained and licensed by the Texas DPS.

And his description of the class is no way even near the classes taught by Texas Instructors.

I believe that the entire post is BS.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 28, 2017, 12:30 PM

31. "I believe that the entire post is BS." Agreed, seems to be 'pious fraud'

This isn't the only one, the disinterested reader is invited to search my own recent posts in response
to what I believe originates from the *other* side of the issue

Gun control as a subject at DU tends to get trolled hard from time to time, both pro and anti.
Some are more clumsy and obvious than others. My personal favorite was the one that pretended
to be both a forty-something activist living in Eugene, Oregon and a sixtyish American expat living in
Rome who worked for the United Nations.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 28, 2017, 07:14 PM

32. You may well be right. ...

I live in Florida and in my experience there are some excellent instructors that teach concealed weapons classes and some that are a total waste of your money.

If you are unfamiliar with firearms and the legal aspects of using lethal force it is wise to find the best instructor you can. It may save you a lot a grief in the long run.

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