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Fri Aug 4, 2017, 04:36 PM

I wonder how many of the angry posters who are filling GD with strident defenses of civil rights

as it applies to a Democratic candidate's position on a woman's right to choose would be equally strident and angry if the candidate was in favor of women exercising their civil right to choose to keep and bear arms.

23 replies, 4184 views

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Reply I wonder how many of the angry posters who are filling GD with strident defenses of civil rights (Original post)
needledriver Aug 2017 OP
Kali Aug 2017 #1
brush Aug 2017 #2
xajj4791 Aug 2017 #3
Paladin Aug 2017 #4
needledriver Aug 2017 #7
Paladin Aug 2017 #18
needledriver Aug 2017 #19
The Polack MSgt Aug 2017 #5
flamin lib Aug 2017 #6
oneshooter Aug 2017 #8
needledriver Aug 2017 #9
flamin lib Aug 2017 #10
Alea Aug 2017 #12
flamin lib Aug 2017 #13
Alea Aug 2017 #14
flamin lib Aug 2017 #15
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2017 #21
needledriver Aug 2017 #16
pablo_marmol Aug 2017 #23
krispos42 Aug 2017 #17
sarisataka Aug 2017 #20
Alea Aug 2017 #11
AtheistCrusader Aug 2017 #22

Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 04:47 PM

1. I'm not doing the first, but if I was I would also do the second.

Good luck with the flamebait and your stay, though.

Oh I see you have been a member since 2007. hmmm

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Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 04:50 PM

2. Try switching the 2nd part to "women exercising their right to control their own bodies?...

and I guarantee you'll get a lot of takers.

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Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:16 PM

3. Does it matter....

 

which civil right we are talking about abrogating?

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Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:35 PM

4. Have you set forth that comparison in GD yet?

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Response to Paladin (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 08:05 PM

7. I was originally going to post in GD, but I figured

I would get responses along the lines of reply #1 - mostly from people who don't understand the contradiction inherent in championing a woman's right to choose, unless the right she chooses is the right to be armed.

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Response to needledriver (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 07:44 AM

18. "...championing a woman's right to choose, unless..."

You lost me right there, pal.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #18)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 08:36 AM

19. I'm with you 100%

Democrats should not be for a woman's right to choose *unless*…

There should be no "unless".

Democrats should be fully on board with a woman's right to freedom of speech, of religion,to peaceably assemble, to petition the government for redress of grievances, to be secure in her person, houses, papers, and effects and against unreasonable search and seizure - ALL of the rights spelled out in our Constitution *including* the right to keep and bear arms.

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Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:45 PM

5. Not ALL amendments are equal tho

Some freedoms are less equal than others

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Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 07:26 PM

6. My guess is that almost all of the people you are talking about have no

problem with RKBA. Many do have a problem with open carry and even concealed carry by people without training and a background check that includes actually talking to local law enforcement and everybody with guns-everywhere-all-the-time-in-your-face gun 'rights' activism.

See it's like this; the way many RKBA absolutists see the second would be like defining the first as covering the use of a loud speaker to shout obscenities in every public space or making up blatant lies about anyone you don't like and spreading them in the public media.

It's not good liberal Democrats that are the enemy of gun rights it's the NRA, GOA and groups like Open carry Texas that promote extreme views which verge on terrorist threats that are the enemy of reasonable exercise of RKBA.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 08:17 PM

8. I thought that you swore never to post here again.

Yet here you are. Guess you can't be trusted to your word.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 08:44 PM

9. I was not talking about RKBA absolutists.

I was talking about DU absolutists who are thumping their chests and stentoriously declaring that it is matter of a woman's civil rights, and that we should not support or vote for any Democrat who is not firmly 100% in favor of a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.

My guess is that most of the DUers who are so publicly adamant about a woman's civil rights as regards abortion would be far less adamant about a woman's civll right to keep and bear arms.

My guess is that it is extremely unlikely that the Greatest page will light up with a number of threads like "What the fuck is going on with this anti-choice shit? What bizarro world have I stepped in to? " when the anti-choice in question is the choice to keep and bear arms.

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Response to needledriver (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 08:56 PM

10. My guess is you have an agenda.

Keep up the flame baiting . . .

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:17 PM

12. And you don't?

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Response to Alea (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:19 PM

13. Not one that only appeals to a tiny sliver of a minority of voters. nt

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:36 PM

14. Tiny sliver?

From Gallup:

"Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to report having a gun in their home. A majority of Republicans (55%) say they have a gun in their home, compared with 32% of Democrats."

also

"Nearly equal majorities of gun owners say they use their gun to protect themselves against crime, for hunting, and for target shooting. Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to report owning a gun, and are also more likely to say they use their gun for hunting."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21496/gun-ownership-higher-among-republicans-than-democrats.aspx

So an admitted 32% is a tiny sliver? Maybe more since democrats are more likely to not admit to owning a gun.

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Response to Alea (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:44 PM

15. Not talking about gun owners. nt

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 6, 2017, 03:29 AM

21. Lectures from someone who last year advocated voting *for* Republicans:

Last edited Sun Aug 6, 2017, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

https://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10141556670

Gabby Giffords’ Gun Control Group Endorses Two Republican Senators

http://time.com/4461211/gun-control-pat-toomey-mark-kirk-gabby-giffords/

The gun control group founded by Gabby Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, has endorsed two Republican Senators in tough re-election fights as it seeks to expand its outreach.

In an op-ed on CNN Monday, Americans for Responsible Solutions backed Sens. Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania and Mark Kirk of Illinois, who are both facing tough re-election races in a year in which Democrats hope to regain control of the Senate.

The two sitting Senators voted in favor of gun control proposals after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, where 20 children were killed.

“In the wake of the tragedy at Sandy Hook, Republican Sens. Pat Toomey and Mark Kirk broke from the gun lobby and supported a bill to help prevent felons, domestic abusers and the dangerously mentally ill from obtaining firearms at gun shows and online,” wrote Giffords and Kelly in the op-ed.

As pointed out by another DUer:

(L)et's look at how the Democratic opposition stacks up.
-Tammy Duckworth, Democrat, combat vet, lost both legs in Iraq. Pro-choice, pro-ACA, supports comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to citizenship for those in the country illegally, would admit 100,000 Syrian refugees into the United States. Rated 7% by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.

-Katie McGinty, Democrat, has not held an elected office. Served as an environmental advisor to Vice President Al Gore and President Bill Clinton, pro-business, supports gay marriage, Affordable Care Act, she is also pro-choice. Scored 100% on CeaseFire Pennsylvania survey, Expanding state background checks to cover the private sale of long guns, Requiring background checks for ammunition sales, Requiring firearms dealers to tell the police when a customer fails a background check


https://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10141556670#post16

They just endorsed a guy that referred to President Obama as "drug dealer in chief"...

...over two solid, demonstrably pro-gun control Democrats.

One of whom can be seen here at the recent pro gun control sit-in:



*My* reading skills are just fine. What part of 'endorsement' did *you* not understand?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/22/opinions/america-finds-voice-gun-safety-giffords-kelly/

This week, they are earning our organization's endorsement.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512378127

Kirk likens Obama to 'drug dealer in chief' for $400 million Iran payment

Republican U.S. Sen. Mark Kirk, who has made opposition to a U.S.-led nuclear agreement with Iran a major theme of his re-election campaign, likened home-state President Barack Obama to "drug dealer in chief" over a $400 million payment linked to the release of American prisoners.

Kirk's controversial rhetoric has been an issue as the first-term senator is viewed as perhaps the most vulnerable Republican incumbent nationally this fall. He is being challenged by two-term Democratic U.S. Rep. Tammy Duckworth of Hoffman Estates.

The latest eyebrow-raising comment came as he spoke last week to a Downstate newspaper. Kirk echoed GOP criticism that the U.S. cash payment of $400 million to Iran was a ransom for the release of American prisoners held by the country.

The money was part of a previously announced settlement in a case stemming from money owed since 1979. The U.S. has had a long-standing policy of not paying ransom for hostages, and the Obama administration described the payment as "leverage" for the release of U.S. prisoners.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-mark-kirk-barack-obama-drug-dealer-iran-met-0822-20160821-story.html




http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028123984#post28


Don't vote party, vote gun violence. That's why Gabby Gifford's has endorsed two Republicans for senate. The two have consistently voted against the NRA and for her that's the most important issue for the short term.

Even if it is for only one or two election cycles, if the NRA's mythological omnipotence can be defeated and shown for being a mile deep and an inch wide it is worth it.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/126211463#post2

Vote like you are a single issue voter if only for an election cycle or two.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:55 PM

16. You are absolutely, piercingly correct.

I do have an agenda.

That is to see Democrats pursue every right in the Bill of Rights with equal fervor.

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Response to needledriver (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:38 AM

23. Nice agenda. Unimportant side benefit:


Winning elections.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 06:08 AM

17. I think many of them have large problems with RKBA in this country

They seem to have problems with the following:

*Assault weapons (by 1993 Federal AWB or stricter)
*Owning magazines of >10 rounds capacity
*Carrying guns for self-defense
*Owning more than a couple of guns at a time
*Training for self-defense
*The AR-15
*People talking about guns in an enthusiastic manner
*People owning guns without shame
*Anybody that argues with the definition of "reasonable gun-control laws"
*"Gun culture"
*Open or concealed carry by anybody except cops and security guards.

They seem to think that a person can own one or two, perhaps as many as 3, registered manual-action long guns that can hold as many as 5 rounds, as long as they are expressly designed for sporting purposes and expressly lacking features for tactical purposes.

Period.

That seems to be where the 2nd Amendment ends for them, and anything else is a privilege extended by the state and subject to revocation.

It was only a few years ago (late spring of 2013) that, after the Sandy Hook school massacre, gun-control in the form of a new, stricter AWB, universal background checks, and magazine-size limits, was going to be the "purity test" for Democrats. Especially after the failure of these items in Congress despite pushing from Obama and some of the parents of the Sandy Hook victims. Get some TRUE Democrats in office, etc.

I'm listening to Sam Sedar shows from this era, and yeah, the guests of his that are talking about it (particularly Cliff Schecter) go OFF THE RAILS when talking about gun owners and groups like the NRA. The word "terrorist" gets thrown around an awful lot, among other insults. And they come down hard on Democrats that don't toe the line on this issue.

I'd much rather Democrats stand firm on abortion rights and dropped some of the gun-control stuff. We have President fucking....

Dammit. I can't even type that.

We have the Fanta Menace in the White House now (and the comparative genius of Bush43 before him) because of this "culture war" bullshit that Democrats picked up in the very early 90's. Which backfired spectacularly, by the way. The number of AR-15s and other magazine-fed semi-automatic rifles in this country SOARED under Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

A handful of voters in a couple of states... and *boom*. The Fanta Menace.

And if ObamaCare gets repealed, the number of people dead from lack of health care and/or health insurance will DWARF the number of people killed with "assault weapons", and people open-carrying, and people concealed-carrying COMBINED.

And this is BEFORE Orange Idiot starts a shooting war in Korea.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 09:56 AM

20. I recall the "TRUE Democrat" talk

right here. Many pro-control people cheered on Bloomberg as he helped tea-party candidate Tom Cotton defeat Democrat Mark Pryor when control of the Senate was at stake. The mantra of 'we don't need pro-gun Democrats' helped to give the radical Repubs control of the Senate.

Even this last election, when some Republicans were endorsed by gun control groups we were treated to posts such as:
Vote like you are a single issue voter if only for an election cycle or two. It will crush the grip of the gun lobby on Congress and then, having killed the snake that is the gun culture, we can move on to other issues.


Interestingly, as we were told "Vote issue over party" regarding guns, the Democrats running against these endorsed Republicans were also pro-gun-control. Regardless of the actual outcomes of the elections or how many voters were swayed by gun control last election, there was a contingent on DU who valued culture war about ObamaCare, Right to Choose, war in Korea or any other Democratic issue. All of those could wait 2-6 years. or more.

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Response to needledriver (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:12 PM

11. In one of those anti-choice candidate threads one poster said

"What part of 'it's the law of the land' don't they understand for fks sake!" (referring to abortion)

I wanted to make a "rkba as defined by scalia is also the law of the land" comment in that thread but figured I'd get flamed just like the poster in reply 1 of this thread tried to do. So I'll do it here.

What part of "it's the law of the land" don't they understand for fks sake! (referring to RKBA)





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Response to Alea (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 9, 2017, 09:30 AM

22. Cognitive dissonance is universal in tribal politics.

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