Aurora shooter's permit was revoked but gun wasn't seized

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Aurora shooter’s permit was revoked but gun wasn’t seized

By DON BABWIN and JULIE WATSON
February 17, 2019

AURORA, Ill. (AP) — An initial background check failed to detect a felony conviction that should have barred the man who killed five co-workers and wounded six others at a suburban Chicago manufacturing plant from buying the gun.

Months later, a second background check of Gary Martin found his 1995 aggravated assault conviction in Mississippi involving the stabbing of an ex-girlfriend. But it prompted only a letter stating his gun permit had been revoked and ordering him to turn over his firearm to police — raising questions about the state’s enforcement to ensure those who lose their permits also turn over their weapons.

A vigil for the victims, including a university student on his first day as an intern and a longtime plant manager, was scheduled for Sunday in Aurora, about 40 miles (65 kilometers) west of Chicago.

Martin, 45, was killed in a shootout with officers Friday, ending his deadly rampage at the Henry Pratt Co. in Aurora. His state gun license permit was revoked in 2014, Aurora Police Chief Kristen Ziman said.

But he never gave up the .40-caliber Smith & Wesson handgun he used in the attack. Investigators are still trying to determine what exactly law enforcement agencies did after that letter was sent, Ziman said.

-snip-

Read more: https://apnews.com/41cfc4666d2a4563a5188a064a7d94d4

[yagotme]

1. I can pretty well guess what they did...

Absolutely zippo. I live in IL, and as a law abiding gun owner, there are more and more hoops for me to jump through, but a criminal gets by. What we need is another law to make murder illegaler, and a few more laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Oh, wait. They're there. Not enforced. And this is my fault how????

[Kaleva]

2. What are the extra hoops you have to jump through to be a gun owner in Illinois?

[yagotme]

3. Firslty, and mostly,

we have to apply for a FOID (Firearms Owner ID) card. Fill out application, send in money, wait 6-8 weeks +/- for return of card. If you don't have an ID card, or don't have it on your person, you cannot handle, purchase firearms, ammo, primers or powder. If you have an ID card, just not on your person, and get caught with a gun, you can get in trouble (depending on jurisdiction/arresting officer). After you go through this background check, each time you purchase a firearm, you go through the federal NICS check. (BTW, supposedly the State checks every FOID almost every day in the system. CC'ers get another check.) Weapons must be cased and unloaded, and, a funny one here, the local Rural King sells firearms, but they are technically within 1,000 ft of school property (across a retired RR, 2 ditches, and a treeline to the back of the large property). If you buy a gun there, you have to bring in a lockable case with lock to get the firearm out of the store to your vehicle. What you do after getting to the vehicle, well, whatever.

After your initial purpose, {*ETA: purchase} there is a three day waiting period, and recently, this includes ALL arms, not just handguns. There is a recently passed Red Flag law, so don't make any one mad at you, or you can get SWAT'ed. (Get the law called on you for no other reason than someone may not like you.) This will result in a taking of your firearms until you can prove you're innocent, a little backwards from the way I last read the Constitution. And Springfield, one of the capitols, (Chicago is the other one), is trying to pass nearly every anti-gun measure anyone has thought up in the last 10 years, it seems. Hope that gives you a little idea of what it's like to own guns in the Land of Lincoln.

[Alea]

4. So basically, following laws on the books...

They should have busted this guy long before the shooting.

Sad

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. What gets me:

>>

Democratic Rep. Kathleen Willis:
"Let's use some common sense. If you have someone with a felony, obviously they are not the best law-abiding citizens who are going to follow through when they get the letter and go, 'oh yeah, here's my gun, no problem,'" Willis said. "We have to have oversight. That's the biggest flaw in the whole system. We're asking people who already have done something wrong, to do something right."

So why is it such a problem for the regulation and restriction (R&R) folk to figure out, that those who don't have an issue breaking the law about murder, won't be bothered laws about giving up their weapons and not acquiring new ones?
Isn't that like expecting the getaway driver to obey the speed limits and stop signs?

>>Many (but not all) R&R people seem to actually trust the cops to do what's right. I suppose cops are probably more less likely to become rampage killers.

>>The R&R folks could learn something from the BLM group which is: The BLM groups aren't really demanding new laws saying 'it's a double secret extra crime for a cop to accidentally or purposefully kill people of color more often than white folks. The BLM groups, from what I know, are after making police management remove over-aggressive racist cops that have histories of bad behavior.

In conclusion, in my home state of PA, I know of some that have gone to jail for months to years for say thefts of maybe $3000-$5000 at a cost of $3300/month. I know of people spending 18 months in jail (at a cost of ~$60,000) for $600 worth of pot. These aren't violent offenses. And then there's domestic abusers getting probation.

Maybe the billions going to keep most of the non-violent offenders in prison were used to hire cops who would pursue the actual violent killers, rapists, gang bangers and home invaders, the country would be safer overall.

[Alea]

6. "Common sense" seems to be the first thing left out of

Common Sense Laws. I guess common sense dictates not enforcing a common sense law, but also, common sense dictates that a law abiding citizen that's never gotten in any trouble will turn in their guns because, well they're law abiding, so let go after them because it's easy. It's just too hard to deal with non law abiding citizens, so they get the RKBA until they do something so extreme that gets them caught.

This guy had to have been pulled over, or renewed his DL at some point after his rights were revoked and ordered to turn in his guns. He's working, paying taxes, has an address. How hard is it really to find him? Seems like a little common sense would have gotten him caught. Not that he wouldn't get a gun off the street... , but hell they didn't even try.


?? ?? ??

I can't even get into the second part of your post, the policing and prison part, because my brain can't fathom the stupidity of the system. It's like: Do all the wrong things and waste as much money as possible doing it.

[Kaleva]

7. Sounds like simple stuff to me

To transport a gun in gun friendly Michigan, unless one has a CPL, the weapon must be in the trunk or back, cased, unloaded, and the ammo separate from the gun case. Your FOID isn't much different then a Michigan CPL, for which I had to shell out a couple of hundred dollars for the state fee and mandatory training and go through an extensive background check, that I carry on me at all times when out and about. A three day or longer waiting period is what we who buy on line go through with every purchase. Not that there is a mandatory three day waiting period but there is a several day delay from the time I buy a gun, or ammo, on line and when it arrives at a local licensed dealer in the case of a gun or at my home for ammo.

[yagotme]

8. Transport here is the same,

except the FOID is required for ALL gun owners. A carry license is an additional ID, and expense. The FOID isn't expensive, just a difficulty at times (renewing, etc.) So, as a CC gun owner, I pay for 2 cards. They are not combined. To CC, I have to have both.

And for the waiting period, that is for EVERY purchase, not just on line. Local store, Wal-Mart, whatever. Used to be just 1 day for long guns, but that is one of our most recent changes. Ammo is "cash and carry", but years ago (70's era), there was an ammo log that had to be filled out for ammo purchases. A recordkeeping nightmare, from what I've heard, and had ZERO effect on crime. It disappeared off the books shortly before I came of age to buy ammo.

[gejohnston]

9. the ammo log,

was part of the original Gun Control Act but was removed under FOPA. I remember it when I came of age then disappearing when I returned to the US from Japan.

[yagotme]

10. Where were you at??

Spent 4 yrs on Oki, 86-90.

[gejohnston]

11. Kadena

15 TRS, 86-89

[yagotme]

12. Stepped off the plane 6-6-86.

Worked at Camp Foster, MCB. Just down the hill from the USO. Worked part time with AAFES, managed Butler theater last year, (90). Saw Lee Greenwood and Suzy Boggus there at Kadena theater (opened theater, their manager wasn't available). Few months before had Ricky Scaggs at Butler, and actually met Alex Trebec.

[oneshooter]

13. So who in Government can be held accountable for thei "mistake"?

Does the law cover this, or is it just a slip up with nobody being held accountable?

[yagotme]

14. Accountable Government?

Isn't that like a misnomer, or something???

[oneshooter]

15. So they wrote a LAW that can not be enforced.

If a law has no enforcement measures included, then what good is it?

[yagotme]

16. As a "gotcha" for later... n/t