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Tue Oct 27, 2020, 11:22 PM

U.S. Voters Agree on One Thing: They'd Feel Better Owning a Gun

U.S. Voters Agree on One Thing: They'd Feel Better Owning a Gun

Like many Americans, two women a thousand miles apart are each anxious about the uncertain state of the nation. Their reasons are altogether different. But they have found common ground, and a sense of certainty, in a recent purchase: a gun.

Ann-Marie Saccurato traced her purchase to the night she was eating dinner at a sidewalk restaurant not long ago in Delray Beach, Florida, when a Black Lives Matter march passed, and her mind began to wander.

It takes only one person to incite a riot when emotions are high, she remembers thinking. What if police are overpowered and canít control the crowd?

Ashley Johnson, in Austin, Texas, worries about the images sheís seen in past weeks of armed militias showing up to rallies and making plans to kidnap governors. The outcome of the election, she thinks, will be devastating for some people regardless of the winner.
https://news.yahoo.com/u-voters-agree-one-thing-190444273.html

Only in 2020...

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Arrow 15 replies Author Time Post
Reply U.S. Voters Agree on One Thing: They'd Feel Better Owning a Gun (Original post)
sarisataka Oct 2020 OP
BeyondGeography Oct 2020 #1
MichMan Oct 2020 #2
BeyondGeography Oct 2020 #4
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2020 #5
BeyondGeography Oct 2020 #7
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2020 #8
Straw Man Nov 2020 #11
BeyondGeography Nov 2020 #12
Straw Man Nov 2020 #13
BeyondGeography Nov 2020 #14
discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2020 #15
krispos42 Oct 2020 #6
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2020 #9
AleksS Oct 2020 #3
ManiacJoe Oct 2020 #10

Response to sarisataka (Original post)

Tue Oct 27, 2020, 11:35 PM

1. Most will end up using it on themselves or someone they know

But, hey, itís a free country.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 27, 2020, 11:41 PM

2. Most people with guns end up using it on themselves or someone they know?

Can you prove that assertion? I know dozens and dozens of friends that have guns and none have shot themselves or someone else with them.

The word most means that more than half of all gun owners have shot either themselves or someone else they know.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 27, 2020, 11:49 PM

4. I'm talking about shootings, not playing at the range

Lots of studies confirm this.

One example from the NIH:

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home

Abstract

Objective: Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.

Methods: We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.

Results: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 28, 2020, 12:24 AM

5. That's not exactly what you said, is it?

 

"Most will end up using it on themselves or someone they know"

With >80 million gun owners in this country, if your statement was true we'd have seen near-medieval levels of gun violence by now.

99% of those gun owners never have, and never will be, "...involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt..."

You are perfectly free to dislike guns, and I respect your right to do so.

You are not free to make stuff up without expecting to be called out on it.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 28, 2020, 12:37 AM

7. I guess it depends how you define "using"

If having a gun in the house makes you feel safer, goody for you. The statistics on shootings speak for themselves. The bottom line for me at least is gun ownership and safety have very little to do with one another.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 28, 2020, 12:40 AM

8. "The statistics on shootings speak for themselves" They do -but they don't say what you claimed.

 

A quick Googling gives a combined population of the study areas of =/- 1,395,000 people

(Memphis ca. 650K, Seattle ca. 745K, Galveston ca. 50K)

Say 20% of those own guns, which would mean 279,000 people (likely a lowball for Memphis and Galveston- Southrons
really like their guns)

The study states that "...626 shootings occurred in or around a residence..."

Subtracting the "Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense"
gives us a figure of 613

613 into 279,000 means that slighly less than 1/4 of 1% (or 1 out of 455) of gun owners were responsible for the events
you'd have us be 'concerned' about.

I stand by what I said upthread.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 02:19 AM

11. I think it depends more on how you define "most."

To "most" people, that means more than 50%.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 07:34 AM

12. Like this?

For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 05:52 PM

13. No. Not like that.

You said "most people with guns," not "most people who use guns in self-defense." The latter is only a very tiny sliver of all people with guns. But you knew that.

Don't those goalposts get heavy after a while?

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 06:09 PM

14. I said they are hardly ever used in self-defense

When they are used, instead of serving as toys or tchotchkes, which is blessedly how most of them end up, they are most often used on their owners or someone they know.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 07:25 PM

15. Not to intrude but...

Overall Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Emergency Department Visits and Rates per 100,000
2015, United States, All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages:
Cases- 84,997........Population (2015)- 320,742,673

2015, United States
Suicide Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages:
Deaths: 22,018........Population (2015)- 320,742,673

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 28, 2020, 12:31 AM

6. It sound like said defense is only counted if the gun is discharged

That does not cover all uses of a gun for self defense.

Also, if you're counting guns that are illegally owned by career criminals, well, they're criminals! Of course they're going to use them to commit crimes! That's why they got the gun!

But what are the odds that an.honest person with an honest job is going to use their legally-purchased gun to commit an assault or a homicide?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 28, 2020, 01:13 AM

9. "..what are the odds that a... person with an honest job is going to use their legally-purchased...

 

....gun to commit an assault or a homicide?"

Less than 2 out of 1000 of all gun owners (and probably fewer for the legal ones), according to my math
in post #8

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 27, 2020, 11:42 PM

3. Yup. It's what makes me the most crazy.

Not only does owning a gun not make you safer, but it actually makes you UNsafer, and more likely to die from a gun.

WTF people. But hey, 'mericans gotta 'merica.

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Response to AleksS (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 31, 2020, 03:19 AM

10. That is a commonly wrong interpretation of the stats.

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