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Fri Mar 26, 2021, 04:49 PM

Why we don't get good gun laws.

This is what we are up against. A quote from a guy, (screen name?), Ricky James after Florida school shooting:

"Sorry lady but my right to own an AR-15 is more important than your dead kid. ...."

32 replies, 2730 views

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why we don't get good gun laws. (Original post)
3Hotdogs Mar 26 OP
krispos42 Mar 26 #1
Paladin Apr 16 #8
krispos42 Apr 16 #9
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 3 #16
Atticus Apr 29 #13
3Hotdogs Mar 26 #2
Mary in S. Carolina Mar 26 #3
discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 26 #4
sarisataka Mar 26 #5
Straw Man Mar 27 #6
RotorHead May 20 #17
3Hotdogs May 20 #19
RotorHead May 21 #20
3Hotdogs May 21 #22
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 21 #23
yagotme May 24 #32
colsohlibgal Apr 16 #7
yagotme Apr 19 #10
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 19 #11
yagotme Apr 19 #12
Atticus Apr 29 #14
yagotme Apr 30 #15
RotorHead May 20 #18
RotorHead May 21 #21
Dial H For Hero May 21 #24
RotorHead May 24 #26
Scrivener7 May 21 #25
RotorHead May 24 #27
Scrivener7 May 24 #28
RotorHead May 24 #31
Dial H For Hero May 24 #29
MarineCombatEngineer May 24 #30

Response to 3Hotdogs (Original post)

Fri Mar 26, 2021, 05:28 PM

1. Because treating it as a hardware issue isn't good gun laws

It may be emotionally satisfying, but it's ultimately unproductive.

It's not a hardware problem. At least in the sense you can draw some arbitray line between types of guns and say "problem"/"not a problem".

Actually, blaming "assault weapons" is a useful tool because the politicians and pundents can pretend there is a solution to a pretty much solutionless problem.

Homicidal beserker decides to kill a bunch of people in a random building in a random city in a random state. He (and they are all "he" ) does it at a random time on a random day of a random month, and he does it for a reason that ONLY MAKES SENSE TO HIM. And even a quick police response time gives a minimum of 180 long, long seconds to the beserker to kill and kill and kill

There is no organization to dismantle. Theere are no members to arrest, no leaders interrogate, no finances to freeze, no supporters flip, no headquarters to seize.

It's called "stochatic terrorism", and it's what the purveyers of chaos and hate stoke deep in the world of the anonymous internet. Incels and MAGAts and Qanon and white nationists and Christian nationists and others insulate themselves from reality and delve deep into their own little bubble of reality.

Rerun the Boulder attack, but give the guy pretty much any "lesser" gun, and you'd still have 10 dead innocents. 180 seconds is a long, long time to run through a store shooting anybody that you want.

I mean, I guess you could decide to completely disarm the entire civilian population but that presents its own problems.

So, banning assault weapons and magazine-capacity limits. "This way, they can't kill as many people at the next mass shooting!" is the reasoning, which implicity says the problem of mass shootings is here to stay but they're going to limit the damage and that's a workable solution.

The background check bill that the Democrats passed in the House a few weeks ago... that might actually cut down on both mass shootings and normal, run-of-the-mill shootings.

The assault weapons ban? Not a chance.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 11:44 AM

8. Let us know, the next time some nut uses a Winchester Model 70 in a mass shooting.

It most certainly is a "hardware issue." The overwhelming, non-stop slaughter of innocents in this country in mass shootings coincides with the popularity of military-styled, high-capacity, semi-auto weapons, both pistols and rifles. The clunky old bolt-action Winchester Model 70's and Remington Model 700's remain in gun cases, awaiting deer season---not enough firepower to take out a class full of schoolkids. Anything to be done about this shameful situation? You're right, probably not one fucking thing. It's nothing to be proud of.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:30 PM

9. Yet the homicide rate dropped by 40% during the same time period.

1991-2004. The revolver is in decline, the semi-auto pistol is ascending. Semi-automatic rifles are replacing bolt and lever action guns. And yet, despite an uptick in mass shootings, the homicide rate falls 40%.

So, it's not a goddamn hardware issue! "Oooo, oooo, it's military-styled! BAN IT!" is getting extraordinarily old.

For every person killed in a mass shooting over a hundred are shot and killed in non-mass shootings. Obviously, focusing on yearly TOTALS is far more important than high-profile but rare occurrences.

"But they're not rare anymore!"

Someone is murdered every 32 minutes in this country. Every THIRTY TWO MINUTES. Over 44 per day! And virtually none of them make the national news and dominate the headlines with all the hand-wringing and "we have to do something" lamentations.

During my lunch break, somebody in this country was murdered. Abused wife, gang fight, store clerk, whatever. Where's that news?

It's not a hardware problem. We're in extraordinary times because of Covid-19 and Trumpism and all the other shit stresses we've been dealing with for months and years.

It's probably going to be a bad year for crime in general.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #9)

Mon May 3, 2021, 09:23 AM

16. I get it. Rallying folks against an enemy is about the best way to unite them.

Even if the enemy is an inanimate object. The list is well represented: alcohol, pot, drugs in general, now guns. In my opinion, one of the greatest services a government can provide to the people is a variety of productive opportunities. Without enough positive and responsible pursuits, people will eventually find an innate talent they can apply to their advantage, even if it may sometimes involve assault and robbery. People tend to continue doing something they're good at.

I recently came across a news story about someone who recognized that basic truth:
https://womensenews.org/2013/02/1994-mugging-reveals-rosa-parks-true-character/
Her approach at 81 drew from her lifelong commitment to young people. "I hope to someday see an end to the conditions in our country that would make people want to hurt others." Similar to her frame on the 1967 riot, (Rosa) Parks believed that the ways to staunch individual acts of violence was to transform the structures of inequity that provided the ground in which they grew. Even as she regularly reminded young people of the importance of good character, hard work and motivation, Parks remained concentrated on changing the conditions that limited their ability to flourish.
This after being attacked and beaten in her own home.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 29, 2021, 09:55 PM

13. Thank you for speaking truth to---whatever. nt

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Original post)

Fri Mar 26, 2021, 06:09 PM

2. Disarm the entire population ... it is a three year process.

Year 1. We will buy your gun. Full market value, half value --- whatever.

Year 2. We will accept your gun but with no penalty.

Year 3. We are not coming after your gun but if it is found in conjunction with another crime, random stop or whatever, the penalty is fine and/or jail or prison.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 26, 2021, 07:03 PM

3. I like it!

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 26, 2021, 09:11 PM

4. So you're thinking that we have nothing better to do...

...with ~$200,000,000,000 than buy up guns?
Then there's the expense of keeping a few million more uncooperative folks in prison.

Maybe get Ken Lay to consult on the financing for that.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 26, 2021, 09:21 PM

5. This

is why we don't get good gun laws

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 27, 2021, 03:38 AM

6. Sounds easy.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #2)

Thu May 20, 2021, 10:33 PM

17. Sounds like a recipe for kick-starting an (Un-)Civil War.

 

But... 'no-one is coming for your guns'....

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Response to RotorHead (Reply #17)

Thu May 20, 2021, 11:59 PM

19. That's the point. Nobody is coming for your guns.

But your ass is in a sling if you are found with one.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #19)

Fri May 21, 2021, 06:34 AM

20. Soooo...

 

You ARE 'coming for (our) guns'....

Just slowly.

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Response to RotorHead (Reply #20)

Fri May 21, 2021, 07:54 AM

22. Its a difference between going door to door, looking for and finding same during course of resolving

a different problem.



Cocaine is illegal. Cops do not go door to door, searching houses. But if the cop comes into my house to execute a warrant for my failure to show up for my pee test last month and the cop sees my blow on the table,----

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #22)

Fri May 21, 2021, 08:02 AM

23. Sooo...

...you're in favor of drugs (or at least cocaine) being illegal?
Which drugs?

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #22)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:02 PM

32. Sooo, the gov't is going to throw out all those registration lists/

4473's they have on file, so they won't know who has any guns, just to be fair???

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 10:51 AM

7. It's Insanity

There is no justifiable reason for an everyday American to possess Military grade weapons.

I will never understand gun nuts who misunderstand the 2nd Amendment Totally.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 19, 2021, 12:01 PM

10. Military grade weapons...

Name a shooting in the last, oh, say, 80 years, that was committed with a legally owned machine gun. I am getting tired of the "military grade" handle being thrown around, as the military has used everything from flintlocks to electric powered gatling guns. If a shooter goes on a rampage with an 8-shot M-1 Garand, Gen. Patton's "greatest battle implement ever devised", should we ban it? Only made millions of them, now scattered throughout the US, in private hands, currently going for over $1,000/pc. Buyback on just this system alone would be quite impressive. Or, just take them? I don't think I would like to be in on that mission.

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Response to yagotme (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 19, 2021, 04:04 PM

11. Are there more than 4 shootings in the last 80 years, that were committed with a machine gun?

I think maybe 2.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 19, 2021, 08:04 PM

12. Legally owned? Probably, maybe less.

The hoops to go through, and cost of a legal machine gun purchase weeds out most of the riff raff. Most likely, someone waiting to go through the process of a purchase, doesn't have any criminal intentions at all.

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Response to yagotme (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 29, 2021, 10:02 PM

14. Some are "getting tired" of disingenuous red herrings being posted as a "response". nt

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Response to Atticus (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 11:05 AM

15. Some "get tired" of misinformation being presented as a response.

This is the post I was responding to.

"There is no justifiable reason for an everyday American to possess Military grade weapons.

I will never understand gun nuts who misunderstand the 2nd Amendment Totally."

Please give me your definition of "military grade" weaponry, and we'll pull up the BATFE rulings, and see how they compare. I believe that my post will be a lot closer to current law/rule than yours. I also believe that your definitions will probably be more in line with the above poster of whom I quoted. While you're composing this, your breakdown of the 2d amendment would be appreciated, also. Again, I feel it will be in line with previous poster.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #7)


Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #7)

Fri May 21, 2021, 06:38 AM

21. "Military grade weapons"?

 

Did you know that EVERY commonly available firearm is a former military design, or directly derived from one, or was adopted into military use?

Every bolt-action, pump-action, lever-action, revolver and semi-auto-action firearm, and every SINGLE-shot firearm? Yes, even the muzzle-loaders of the time.

EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Did you know that the purpose and intent of the Second Amendment is to preserve and protect Citizen ownership of militarily useful weapons of ALL types?

I own actual military-surplus firearms. Are my Springfield, Mauser, Eddystone, Mosin-Nagant, Enfield and Garand rifles suitable for Citizen ownership, under the Second Amendment? Why or why not?

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Response to RotorHead (Reply #21)

Fri May 21, 2021, 12:26 PM

24. You're not supposed to use arguments that demonstrate knowledge of the subject at hand.

That's "gunsplaining".

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #24)

Mon May 24, 2021, 01:49 AM

26. How dare I be educated on a topic, right?

 

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Original post)

Fri May 21, 2021, 07:57 PM

25. We don't get good gun laws because our country has too many man-babies who need to

compensate for their shortcomings.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #25)

Mon May 24, 2021, 01:50 AM

27. If you're confusing guns with male genitalia....

 

You need some education... or some counseling.

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Response to RotorHead (Reply #27)

Mon May 24, 2021, 06:18 AM

28. Back atcha, buddy.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #28)

Mon May 24, 2021, 02:28 PM

31. I'm sure you can demonstrate where I have made such an error......

 

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #25)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:26 AM

29. When one doesn't have a good argument one can always use ad hominems, yes?

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #25)

Mon May 24, 2021, 09:27 AM

30. Ooooh, so original.



C'mon, you can do better than that can't ya?

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