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Sat May 1, 2021, 08:30 AM

Serious question to regular posters in this forum: Do you support the Democratic 2020

platform as it regards firearm policy? One place to review it is-----https://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Democratic_Party_Gun_Control.htm

Please begin with a clear "Yes" or "No" before you explain your position in detail.

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Reply Serious question to regular posters in this forum: Do you support the Democratic 2020 (Original post)
Atticus May 1 OP
marble falls May 1 #1
TreasonousBastard May 1 #2
snowybirdie May 1 #3
Hawker123 May 1 #4
USALiberal May 1 #8
sarisataka May 1 #5
Atticus May 1 #9
sarisataka May 2 #15
Atticus May 1 #10
RainCaster May 1 #6
Dial H For Hero May 2 #12
AndyS May 4 #20
friendly_iconoclast May 4 #21
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 4 #22
friendly_iconoclast May 4 #23
RotorHead May 20 #38
AndyS May 21 #41
Dial H For Hero May 21 #42
RotorHead May 24 #44
RotorHead May 20 #37
oneshooter May 21 #43
yagotme May 24 #45
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 1 #7
Straw Man May 2 #11
Dial H For Hero May 2 #13
Name removed May 3 #16
Hortensis May 2 #14
Name removed May 3 #17
Hortensis May 3 #18
hack89 May 3 #19
The Mouth May 5 #24
Atticus May 5 #25
The Mouth May 5 #26
Atticus May 5 #27
The Mouth May 5 #28
Atticus May 5 #29
The Mouth May 5 #30
Paladin May 8 #32
The Mouth May 9 #33
Paladin May 9 #34
The Mouth May 9 #35
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 7 #31
The Mouth May 9 #36
RotorHead May 20 #39
RotorHead May 20 #40

Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 08:32 AM

1. Yes. I've changed 180. Guns are now a public safety and publoc health issue. Its time to stand ...

... down and disarm.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #1)

Sat May 1, 2021, 08:35 AM

2. Not a regular poster, but for the record I agree. Doesn't go far enough, but...

even that's a tough challenge in this environment.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:06 AM

3. Didn't know

There would be a test. Skipping class today.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:12 AM

4. Sounds like a purity test

 

It's can be yes for most and no for some. I won't play your getcha game.

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Response to Hawker123 (Reply #4)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:27 PM

8. Wow that explains a lot! Nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 10:47 AM

5. Yes

I believe however the focus is misdirected. There is too much attention paid towards the low support but big headline items such as bans. It wastes too much political capital for too little return.

I believe we should start with the low hanging fruit that has broad support such as universal background checks and red flag laws. They will also likely have a greater effect on reducing gun violence than the more controversial items. Get those past then look at additional measures.

Now a counter question. Do you support the position of the Gun Control Reform Activism group? It has been stated in some form in every election since 2014 such as this from 2016-
Don't vote party, vote gun violence. That's why Gabby Gifford's has endorsed two Republicans for senate. The two have consistently voted against the NRA and for her that's the most important issue for the short term.

Even if it is for only one or two election cycles, if the NRA's mythological omnipotence can be defeated and shown for being a mile deep and an inch wide it is worth it.

Please begin with a clear "Yes" or "No" before you explain your position in detail.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #5)

Sat May 1, 2021, 08:47 PM

9. No.

Did you really think I wouldn't check on that "endorsed two Republicans for Senate"?

Yes, for some reason, she apparently did, but that isn't the whole story is it? I stopped checking as soon as I found out one of the Republicans was the shopworn Mr. Kirk who was running against Tammy Duckworth. You know Tammy---has an "F" grade from the NRA and says she is "proud of it".

Why in the world anyone would choose Kirk over Duckworth is beyond me.

So, no, absolutely not. I do not support the stated "position" of the group. Neither do many of the posters on the RKBA forum, but for different reasons.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #9)

Sun May 2, 2021, 02:07 PM

15. I too have no idea

Why anyone on this board would support a Republican over Senator Duckworth. Gifford's group is single issue and of course may do as they please but that endorsement did leave me scratching my head.

Yet I do find it odd that this group is the one who is called NRA apologists and called out in purity tests while our zealously anti-gun group has repeatedly told us it is "worth it" to vote for Republicans. They go unchallenged in this position despite DU's TOS. I wonder if it is felt the McConnell led senate was worth it, as a stepping stone.

By comparison I have never seen a DU "gun humper" promote voting for a Republican over any pro-guncontrol Democrat.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #5)


Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 11:19 AM

6. Yes

As a responsible gun owner, I resent the NRA and how they have become since the 60s. We need the CDC to monitor gun violence, we need a national registry, we don't need high capacity magazines. I have no respect for any hunter who uses a semiautomatic - they are lousy shots if they have to use a lead pump.

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Response to RainCaster (Reply #6)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:14 AM

12. Semiautos are normally limioted to 5 rounds in the magazine when hunting big game.

Last edited Sun May 2, 2021, 06:57 AM - Edit history (1)

A lever action can put rounds down range almost as quickly if one is so inclined. Granted, the semiauto can be reloaded considerably faster...but given that the vast majority of hunters usually fire only one or two shots when hunting a big game animal, what's unsporting about the semiauto?

I can imagine similar conversations taking place in 1910 ("No hunter needs a scope! That's just cheating!) and 1885 (No hunter needs a repeater! They're just lead pumps!)

Like it or not, the AR-15 is one of the most popular hunting rifles in America, and will be only more so for the next few decades.

I'll be going hog hunting with my friends later this year. I plan on using a Bushmaster AR-15 chambered in 6.8mm SPC. On the other hand, I could take my M1A SOCOM in .308. I could also go really old-school and use a Swedish Model 96 Mauser in 6.5 Swedish which is 114 years old and shoots like a dream. It's been sporterized (something I normally can't stand) but someone did a really nice job on it, cutting it down to 17" with a Mannlicher-style stock. I bought it at a gun show for only $200 around ten years ago, and it came with a Leupold scope!
'
Decisons, decisions....

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #12)

Tue May 4, 2021, 10:37 AM

20. Thanks for gunsplaining it to us. nt

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Response to AndyS (Reply #20)

Tue May 4, 2021, 04:28 PM

21. The opprobrium of someone who urged DUers to vote for Republicans is to be cherished...

 

...not avoided.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028123984#post28

Don't vote party, vote gun violence. That's why Gabby Gifford's has endorsed two Republicans for senate. The two have consistently voted against the NRA and for her that's the most important issue for the short term.

Even if it is for only one or two election cycles, if the NRA's mythological omnipotence can be defeated and shown for being a mile deep and an inch wide it is worth it.


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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #21)

Tue May 4, 2021, 05:13 PM

22. OT: What's up with that?

Why are so many people automatically adding an apostrophe to names and words that end with an "s"? It's annoying. No apostrophe in Giffords.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #22)

Tue May 4, 2021, 05:15 PM

23. Just a typo, I think- a word dropped after "Gifford's"

 

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Response to AndyS (Reply #20)

Thu May 20, 2021, 10:23 PM

38. Facts are important.

 

Don't you agree?

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Response to RotorHead (Reply #38)

Fri May 21, 2021, 09:00 AM

41. Absolutely if they are germane to the topic.

If, however they are mere opinionating for the purpose of showing superiority in knowledge not so much. That crosses the line from adding to the conversation and simple pontificating or in this case 'gunsplaining' by throwing in useless 'facts' for self aggrandizement.

My opinion YMMV.

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Response to AndyS (Reply #41)

Fri May 21, 2021, 12:14 PM

42. And how exactly was my post not germane to the topic?

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Response to AndyS (Reply #41)

Mon May 24, 2021, 01:55 AM

44. Well, since you are clearly ignorant on the topics of firearms AND hunting with them...

 

...some educational commentary seems quite "germane" to the observer.

And since we're about that, the Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.

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Response to RainCaster (Reply #6)

Thu May 20, 2021, 10:22 PM

37. You don't seem to know much...

 

...about firearms OR hunting....

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Response to RainCaster (Reply #6)

Fri May 21, 2021, 12:20 PM

43. I use either M1Garand or a flintlock to hunt deer with

The Garand is a 1942 Winnie and the flinter is a 50cal longrifle. BOTH were considered military rifles in there times.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #43)

Mon May 24, 2021, 08:53 PM

45. Been checking the CMP for a Winnie.

Out, for now. Need one to complete the quadfecta.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 11:22 AM

7. Some of it yes, other parts no. Details below.

I count 8 individual points noted in the text to which you linked. I can support some of them and I will detail below which and why or why not. I apologize for the likely long winded reply to follow and thank you in advance for your attention and consideration but mostly thanks for starting this discussion.

PLCAA:
My short answer- I am in favor of the concept expressed in the law but having the existing fragmented case law upon which it is based codified as legislation I feel is unnecessary. I am in favor of mom and pop enterprises in any area of business competing with chains and franchises. That includes gun shops. I do believe that small businesses have been defendants in lawsuits simply because they were parties in the chain of custody of a gun between its manufacture and an accidental or deliberate injury involving the gun and not because they actually failed in due diligence or acted criminally.


Reasonable regulation:
I agree. Even the Heller decision clarified that the RKBA is subject to reasonable regulation.


The assault weapons ban:
I am, in general, against a new AWB. I have read no convincing description relating any functional combination of attributes that make an AR-15 type rifle (or others) banworthy. Feel free to plaintify your reasons in support.


The gun show loophole:
Federal law has never required and has prohibited private firearm owners from accessing the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. Private sales, by federal law, require no NICS BGC. I favor making a BGC available to any private seller via local law enforcement financed by federal grants.


Mandatory child safety locks:
I agree that every gun should be manufactured and sold with a safety lock making it inoperable.


Handgun photo license I.D., BGC, and safety test:
AFAIK an ID is required for proof of residence for all sales from federal firearm licensees. An NICS report listing to proceed with the sale is also required. The safety test or course completion should be at the state's option and their enforcement.

Your clear and detailed response to the points above would be appreciated.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:45 AM

11. Gotcha Bait

Please begin with a clear "Yes" or "No" before you explain your position in detail.

In other words, trolling for alert fodder.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #11)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:16 AM

13. Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #11)


Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 10:43 AM

14. Yes, keeping in mind this is our platform, not the final form legislation

passed by congress would take.

Sorry that I didn't notice what forum this was when I posted. There are always various viable options with their own tradeoffs of costs and benefits, and this group knows them a lot better than I do. Fwiw, in today's environment I don't worry that we could "go too far" by any reasonable standard. What we do manage to battle past the Republicans, however flawed, will at least part of what a very large majority of Americans want.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #14)


Response to Name removed (Reply #17)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:44 AM

18. That's very nice, thanks, considering the hope for particularly informed debate. :)

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:58 PM

19. I support Dems regardless of their position on gun control

More important issues to worry about. Besides we all know it is a bone for a particular Dem constituency that has no chance of passing.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Wed May 5, 2021, 02:17 PM

24. No

It is simply not the business of anyone as to who I make love to, what substances I put in my body, what kind of art I create or consume or what I have in my house or on my person for defense of life, liberty, and property.

As with drugs and motor vehicles, if anyone else on the planet has it, or has ever had it, I want the ability to have it too if I desire.

The *only* thing related to gun grabbing that I will support is that there are some crazy people who shouldn't have them; pretty much the same people who shouldn't drive, vote, or breed.

Other than that, I care not in the least who has what, where, or why until they *ACT* in such a manner as to deprive another person of life, liberty, or property.

Obviously, I am going to vote blue, no matter who; but I'll disarm once the last GQP asshole does, not before.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #24)

Wed May 5, 2021, 02:30 PM

25. Sadly, you are very representative of those to whom my OP was intended. It is "not the business of

anyone" what firearms you choose to possess, but somehow it is your "business" who gets to vote or "breed".

You don't look for a parachute after you've bailed out; you don't put on a condom after she's pregnant; and, we shouldn't wait until someone has shot up a Walmart or a first grade classroom before we decide they should not be allowed to buy a firearm.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #25)

Wed May 5, 2021, 02:56 PM

26. Be as sad as you wish.

I could not possibly care less.

I hope the Supreme Court throws out the 1934 and 1968 gun control acts and finds an absolute right for any citizen to own or carry anything anywhere except for the private property of those who forbid it.

As with speech or drugs, the fact that someone else may misuse something has not, nor will it have the slightest bearing on the prohibitions or restrictions I will support.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #26)

Wed May 5, 2021, 05:02 PM

27. Your attitude seems to fit the definition of "anarchy". Do you identify as an anarchist? nt

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Response to Atticus (Reply #27)

Wed May 5, 2021, 05:57 PM

28. I vote Democrat.

I vote blue.

I strongly doubt you have the slightest clue as to what an anarchist is, but I don't expect much of gun haters.

As I said, the sadder you get, the happier I will be. Gun control is inherently racist and fascist.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #28)

Wed May 5, 2021, 06:23 PM

29. Cool story, dude. I vote Democratic. nt

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Response to Atticus (Reply #29)

Wed May 5, 2021, 06:30 PM

30. Call it what you want,

I vote for the Democrat in the race, if that helps your reading comprehension any.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #30)

Sat May 8, 2021, 10:11 AM

32. Too late. (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #32)

Sun May 9, 2021, 02:23 PM

33. Like I thought

Since you're on the losing end of history as well as logic please assume away. Anyone who can't understand what "Shall not be infringed" means is unlikely to understand any other phrase in English.

I do really wish to read of your weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth and cries for court-packing when SCOTUS throws out pretty much all gun-grabbing laws. I shall really relish the pain of the people who think it their business what I carry , every bit as much as the anguish of any other fascists when their desire for control is quashed.

Let me guess: you also get the sadz when a burglar, robber, rapist, or carjacker is sent to their just reward by an armed citizen, right?

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #33)

Sun May 9, 2021, 02:30 PM

34. You're a perfect fit for this group.

That's not a compliment.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #34)

Sun May 9, 2021, 02:39 PM

35. I shall take it as one, thanks!

One of the best compliments I've gotten.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri May 7, 2021, 08:52 PM

31. You didn't answer. I'll try again. I vote for Democratic candidates. I didn't vote for the platform.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #31)

Sun May 9, 2021, 02:40 PM

36. That position and concept is beyond the cognitive capacity

of gun-grabbers.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu May 20, 2021, 10:27 PM

39. No.

 

It is not based on any facts, evidence, reality, or logic.

And it is entirely antithetical to Freedom and Liberty.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu May 20, 2021, 10:28 PM

40. Serious question:

 

What is your motive for asking?

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